Dean at MIT resigns for lying 28 years ago

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Bumrush99
Was the work that she did that got her noticed, promoted and respected fraudulant?
Yes she lied on application, and it was a big lie. But her actions during her career did not reflect on that lie. She wasn't promoted over everyone else because of her academic credentials, she was promoted because she worked hard. No one is questioning the stupidity of her lie, but to say that her career was made possible by fraud really over-estimates the importance of her fake degrees and under-estimates the value of working hard and moving as you gain experience in the workplace.

I see what you are trying to justify. But all here accomlishments were fraudulous. What's worse is they are extremely hypocritical.

It doesn't work like that though. This is such a HUGE lie. The same thing also happens in the private sector. There have been high ranking officers of large companies that were immediately fired for falsifying information/degrees on their resume.

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: Bumrush99

Was the work that she did that got her noticed, promoted and respected fraudulant?
Yes she lied on application, and it was a big lie. But her actions during her career did not reflect on that lie. She wasn't promoted over everyone else because of her academic credentials, she was promoted because she worked hard. No one is questioning the stupidity of her lie, but to say that her career was made possible by fraud really over-estimates the importance of her fake degrees and under-estimates the value of working hard and moving up as you gain experience in the workplace.

The degrees are irrelevant. It is only the lies that matter. Does having an affair with another woman over the entire course of your marriage matter if you are still a loving husband and father?

 

[Bumrush99]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Bumrush99
Was the work that she did that got her noticed, promoted and respected fraudulant?
Yes she lied on application, and it was a big lie. But her actions during her career did not reflect on that lie. She wasn't promoted over everyone else because of her academic credentials, she was promoted because she worked hard. No one is questioning the stupidity of her lie, but to say that her career was made possible by fraud really over-estimates the importance of her fake degrees and under-estimates the value of working hard and moving as you gain experience in the workplace.

I see what you are trying to justify. But all here accomlishments were fraudulous. What's worse is they are extremely hypocritical.

It doesn't work like that though. This is such a HUGE lie. The same thing also happens in the private sector. There have been high ranking officers of large companies that were immediately fired for falsifying information/degrees on their resume.

As you move it becomes more difficult to perpetrate the lie. The corporate world will take in people full of crap all day as long if they brining cash to the table, but once you hit C- level positions integrity becomes of the utmost importance.. Funny how these companies have tons of focus groups and strategic advisors to fraudulantly get you to purchase stuff you don't need

 

[mugs]

It's unfortunate that she lost her job, and in most fields I think she would have just gotten a slap on the wrist. But in education, integrity is important. What message would it send if the dean of admissions lies on her resume and is allowed to keep her job? If a student gained admission based on a lie and takes a spot from someone with integrity, I think they should be expelled. Like that Harvard chick whose published novel no doubt had some impact on Harvard's decision to accept her - and then it turned out to be plagiarized.

 

[glenn1]

I see what you are trying to justify. But all here accomlishments were fraudulous. What's worse is they are extremely hypocritical.

As a hiring mananger, I don't care about justifications but rather results. Degrees tell you nothing about competence, and if anything this just shows that the former Dean might have even more upside potential if she did take some degree courses. If I had hired someone who lied about a degree and produced 140% of what his collegue with an MBA produced given the same resources, Mr. MBA is going away should I need to let someone go.

 

[Bumrush99]

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf

Originally posted by: Bumrush99

Was the work that she did that got her noticed, promoted and respected fraudulant?
Yes she lied on application, and it was a big lie. But her actions during her career did not reflect on that lie. She wasn't promoted over everyone else because of her academic credentials, she was promoted because she worked hard. No one is questioning the stupidity of her lie, but to say that her career was made possible by fraud really over-estimates the importance of her fake degrees and under-estimates the value of working hard and moving up as you gain experience in the workplace.

The degrees are irrelevant. It is only the lies that matter. Does having an affair with another woman over the entire course of your marriage matter if you are still a loving husband and father?

Well, people lie. Some lies are big, some lies are small. Some of the students at MIT that she worked with probably cheated on exams or glorified their after school involvement in the community to get in. The fact is, that as a high level adminstrator a double standard exists. All of sudden, as a dean, you have to be bullet proof and honest- While as an adminstrative assistant nobody took the effort to verify her credentials, which didn't involve one school but three degrees- for an entry level position

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Bumrush99
Was the work that she did that got her noticed, promoted and respected fraudulant?
Yes she lied on application, and it was a big lie. But her actions during her career did not reflect on that lie. She wasn't promoted over everyone else because of her academic credentials, she was promoted because she worked hard. No one is questioning the stupidity of her lie, but to say that her career was made possible by fraud really over-estimates the importance of her fake degrees and under-estimates the value of working hard and moving as you gain experience in the workplace.

I see what you are trying to justify. But all here accomlishments were fraudulous. What's worse is they are extremely hypocritical.

It doesn't work like that though. This is such a HUGE lie. The same thing also happens in the private sector. There have been high ranking officers of large companies that were immediately fired for falsifying information/degrees on their resume.

I don't know that I really agree with you here...

The only accomplishments that were fraud were that she "accomplished" graduating from the schools she said she did.

I strongly disagree with the notion that you need a piece of paper to prove anything. Now, lying is another issue entirely and presents integrity issues.

But to say that her lack of credentials makes all of her accomplishments null is going way too far, IMO. This happens all the time, day in and day out. People with no formal requirements are advanced because they've got their foot in the door and can perform the work as needed. It's pretty much what everyone hopes for.

She achieved it by lying, though, which is the real issue here I think. It is unfortuante that she felt the need to lie for others to believe that she was qualified.

 

[PeeluckyDuckee]

After 28yrs of service I would have buried the information. The only victim is the person who lost out on her job because of her. It's not right, but considering all the good she's done it can be overseen imo.

 

[glenn1]

The only victim is the person who lost out on her job because of her.

Wrong, the bigger victim is the school itself, this just undermined the value of their product (a degree) completely. If one of their senior roles can be done well by someone without a degree, what worth is it?

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: glenn1

The only victim is the person who lost out on her job because of her.

Wrong, the bigger victim is the school itself, this just undermined the value of their product (a degree) completely. If one of their senior roles can be done well by someone without a degree, what worth is it?

:thumbsup: I don't entirely agree with your second sentence, because MIT is a tech school and she was in a very non-technical field, but it is embarrassing to the school, and that alone will get you fired.

 

[JJChicken]

Originally posted by: PeeluckyDuckee
After 28yrs of service I would have buried the information. The only victim is the person who lost out on her job because of her. It's not right, but considering all the good she's done it can be overseen imo.

so now I know why I didn't get the job..I would've made a good employee. (sighs)

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: glenn1

The only victim is the person who lost out on her job because of her.

Wrong, the bigger victim is the school itself, this just undermined the value of their product (a degree) completely. If one of their senior roles can be done well by someone without a degree, what worth is it?

Stop drinking Drano. Degrees are just stepping stones unless you are a researcher. Being a dean has nothing to do with your education background at all.

 

[allisolm]

Her being found out doesn't undo all the good she's done, it just ends it. That's unfortunate for MIT as it seems she has done an excellent job. One lesson here - if you've been lying about something bigtime for 28 years perhaps you ought to keep a low profile - not write a book that stresses living with integrity. With national prominence comes national attention and some people have nothing better to do than google.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: glenn1

I see what you are trying to justify. But all here accomlishments were fraudulous. What's worse is they are extremely hypocritical.

As a hiring mananger, I don't care about justifications but rather results. Degrees tell you nothing about competence, and if anything this just shows that the former Dean might have even more upside potential if she did take some degree courses. If I had hired someone who lied about a degree and produced 140% of what his collegue with an MBA produced given the same resources, Mr. MBA is going away should I need to let someone go.

Good to know that at least some are keeping it real.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: glenn1

I see what you are trying to justify. But all here accomlishments were fraudulous. What's worse is they are extremely hypocritical.

As a hiring mananger, I don't care about justifications but rather results. Degrees tell you nothing about competence, and if anything this just shows that the former Dean might have even more upside potential if she did take some degree courses. If I had hired someone who lied about a degree and produced 140% of what his collegue with an MBA produced given the same resources, Mr. MBA is going away should I need to let someone go.

Good to know that at least some are keeping it real.

What about, "When keeping it real goes wrong?"

 

[IAteYourMother]

Originally posted by: glenn1

The only victim is the person who lost out on her job because of her.

Wrong, the bigger victim is the school itself, this just undermined the value of their product (a degree) completely. If one of their senior roles can be done well by someone without a degree, what worth is it?[/q]

That makes no sense, unless you're saying a degree is worthless for being a dean of admissions.

 

[Mr Incognito]

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: glenn1

I see what you are trying to justify. But all here accomlishments were fraudulous. What's worse is they are extremely hypocritical.

As a hiring mananger, I don't care about justifications but rather results. Degrees tell you nothing about competence, and if anything this just shows that the former Dean might have even more upside potential if she did take some degree courses. If I had hired someone who lied about a degree and produced 140% of what his collegue with an MBA produced given the same resources, Mr. MBA is going away should I need to let someone go.

Good to know that at least some are keeping it real.

I mean, I'm kind of laughing over here. She managed to do an excellent job with no degree. Though we can argue until we are blue in the face about possible outcomes but the fact of the matter is she did an excellent job 'despite' her lack of credentials.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: glenn1

I see what you are trying to justify. But all here accomlishments were fraudulous. What's worse is they are extremely hypocritical.

As a hiring mananger, I don't care about justifications but rather results. Degrees tell you nothing about competence, and if anything this just shows that the former Dean might have even more upside potential if she did take some degree courses. If I had hired someone who lied about a degree and produced 140% of what his collegue with an MBA produced given the same resources, Mr. MBA is going away should I need to let someone go.

Good to know that at least some are keeping it real.

What about, "When keeping it real goes wrong?"

:laugh::laugh:

:thumbsup: