Deadmines killed my priest or at least my desire to play one.

[Quixfire]

My wife and I grouped with 2 mages and a paladin last night with the indent to complete the Van Cleef quest in deadmines. We started off ok and everyone was having a good time until we meet the Smelter(?). The first time we met him he and his minions wiped us all. We returned and defeated him, but I died. I was rezzed by the paladin and we continued on. The next think I know we were jumped by 5-6 mobs and I died again, but everyone else survived thanks to the paladin. So we pushed on to the next level where I died again with one of the mages. OK, I?m getting a little pissed. My job is to heal; their job is to protect me. I?m healing, but when I get three to four mobs on my and I chat ?Help? no one comes to aid me and I die. In fact I died two times more than anyone else last night. So I?ll cut to the chase, we get to Van Cleef, I died twice more at this point, and we start the attack. I die within a minutes when the extra rouges appear along with one of the mages. By the time the rest of the group finish the battle my spirit release timer is up, but I let the paladin rez me so I could loot Van Cleef. Well that didn?t happen, everyone else left, except for my wife and there was no body to be found. I didn?t get the opportunity to loot his body, I got crap for loot, and I only gained about 50s and half of that was spend fixing my weapons & armor.

Why would anyone want to play a priest for three hours in a dungeon and walk out with 50s, 7 wool cloth, a bunch of gray & white items, and a couple of green items?

I message one of the mages and explained my frustrations and she/he stated I did a great job and was sorry about my luck. So am I to understand that a priest?s main function is to heal until you draw so much threat that your die within seconds, get crap for loot on group loot, and miss out on half the quest items?

I know I am ranting but I don?t see any real reason to keep playing this class when everything I do takes longer, cost more, and causes me to die more often than any other class I have played.
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Update:

Last night my wife and I completed Deadmines and the Van Cleef quest on our second try. I took all your tips and practiced them from level 18 to 22 and I tried again in a pick-up group. 23 Paladin, 2 23 Rogues, 22 Warlock, and myself 22 Priest. We didn't have much trouble because we had a good leader this time too. The only problem we encounter is one of the rogues had to leave just before we got to Mr. Smitty. I recently joined a guild and sent a request for a member to help us and sure enough a level 36 hunter cam to our rescue. We finished the quests and mines without any trouble.

I really like to say thank you to Malladine. Your tips helped me enjoy the class even more and now I get requests all the time to assist players with quests.

Thanks again guys and see you in the World of Warcraft.

 

[KB]

I haven't played the game, but when I mudded I hated being healing classes for that exact reason. No ones cares about the weaker classes who are helping they just want the loot/EXP. Sounds like you should restart and be a Paladin, they have both healing and attack.

 

[TheAudit]

It sounds like the group just wasn't paying you enough attention. When I am grouping, I try to always leave the front if our mages or priests come under attack.

Actually, from my experience in the Deadmines, our priests are always one of the first to fall, too!

 

[MrBond]

What class is your wife? A single Paladin with all those casters is asking for trouble. If you stick to one mob at a time, you might be OK, but it's hard to do that in instances. In the foundry you can stick to the left wall as you go down the ramp and if you're careful, only pull 1-2 of the engineers and their robots.

It'd be hard for the paladin to hold aggro on the mob with two mages pounding it and you healing the paladin. I did some elite questing in Redridge last night, even with three paladins and two mages, it was hard for the mages. I died at least three times (twice because we got mobbed by at least 15 orcs).

Grouping with random players is also kind of dangerous, I tend to stick with guildmates unless we can't fill a group. A lot of them only care for themselves, hense why you didn't get rezzed by the paladin at the end of the instance.

 

[Malladine]

49 priest here

I do find that I die more often than the rest, mainly because I protect my party before myself, but usually when I die the party is wiped. People tend to remember that and anyone who can taunt, distract, etc, does so frantically should anything attack me. If a standard party (one not heavy with healers/rezzers) doesn't protect their priest they won't make it very far.

Having said this, the best defense against death is your own ability to manage threat level. I have a few tips for you, hope you can make use of them:

1. Use fade before you cast a big heal and make sure the heal goes off while you're faded.
2. Renew generates negligible threat but imo is really only useful if you are holy/disc spec'd, with the renew bonus and mental agility talents. It's good on the meat shield at the start of a fight.
3. Psychic scream as a last resort (in instances even more so)
4. Shield generates lots of threat so use sparingly, but it can be a life saver (as designed). Also remember that Shield can be cast just before battle is joined, thereby avoiding threat issues.
5. Priests can contribute to damage by using Shadow word: pain due to it's low overall threat, but never cast it on a creep nobody else is attacking, at least not in an instance
6. Hold back at the beginning of fights for as long as possible to allow everyone else to build aggro

Myself, my wife (49 hunter), a 60 paladin, 49 mage and a 44 mage conquered maraudon last night. We burned 3 times before we worked out a strategy

 

[torpid]

What level is your group? Sounds like they were reckless and impatient, or too low level. There are only a couple of places where you should be fighting more than two enemies.

 

[ArmchairAthlete]

Pickup groups generally SUCK. It's key to get in a nice guild and just play with them.

Were both mages polymorphing extra mobs?

Sounds like nobody had AOE taunt/good aggro control. Decent groups do *not* let their priest die that much (not saying it still can't happen).

 

[Quixfire]

Originally posted by: torpid
What level is your group? Sounds like they were reckless and impatient, or too low level. There are only a couple of places where you should be fighting more than two enemies.

I was 18-19, Wife 19 Gnome Rouge, 19 Gnome Mage, 19 Human Mage, & 23 Human Paladin. We were very cautious but the times I died was when mobs spawned behind us while engaging another and each of the last three mini bosses. I didn't have any trouble when we battled 1-3 mobs, but anything over that I was left out in the wind.

Malladine, thanks for the tips. I did not know that shield created so much threat.

 

[torpid]

Originally posted by: Quixfire

Originally posted by: torpid
What level is your group? Sounds like they were reckless and impatient, or too low level. There are only a couple of places where you should be fighting more than two enemies.

I was 18-19, Wife 19 Gnome Rouge, 19 Gnome Mage, 19 Human Mage, & 23 Human Paladin. We were very cautious but the times I died was when mobs spawned behind us while engaging another and each of the last three mini bosses. I didn't have any trouble when we battled 1-3 mobs, but anything over that I was left out in the wind.

Malladine, thanks for the tips. I did not know that shield created so much threat.

That may be a bit low. I guess it might be good that the paladin was the highest level, because the mages probably were resisted a lot later in the dungeon, or at least against the bosses. Still, I would be hesitant to join that group if the objective was can cleef.

Mobs don't spawn in the deadmines except for the pairs of elite human overseers or whatever they are called. All the other enemies stay dead.

 

[CVSiN]

Originally posted by: Quixfire
My wife and I grouped with 2 mages and a paladin last night with the indent to complete the Van Cleef quest in deadmines. We started off ok and everyone was having a good time until we meet the Smelter(?). The first time we met him he and his minions wiped us all. We returned and defeated him, but I died. I was rezzed by the paladin and we continued on. The next think I know we were jumped by 5-6 mobs and I died again, but everyone else survived thanks to the paladin. So we pushed on to the next level where I died again with one of the mages. OK, I?m getting a little pissed. My job is to heal; their job is to protect me. I?m healing, but when I get three to four mobs on my and I chat ?Help? no one comes to aid me and I die. In fact I died two times more than anyone else last night. So I?ll cut to the chase, we get to Van Cleef, I died twice more at this point, and we start the attack. I die within a minutes when the extra rouges appear along with one of the mages. By the time the rest of the group finish the battle my spirit release timer is up, but I let the paladin rez me so I could loot Van Cleef. Well that didn?t happen, everyone else left, except for my wife and there was no body to be found. I didn?t get the opportunity to loot his body, I got crap for loot, and I only gained about 50s and half of that was spend fixing my weapons & armor.

Why would anyone want to play a priest for three hours in a dungeon and walk out with 50s, 7 wool cloth, a bunch of gray & white items, and a couple of green items?

I message one of the mages and explained my frustrations and she/he stated I did a great job and was sorry about my luck. So am I to understand that a priest?s main function is to heal until you draw so much threat that your die within seconds, get crap for loot on group loot, and miss out on half the quest items?

I know I am ranting but I don?t see any real reason to keep playing this class when everything I do takes longer, cost more, and causes me to die more often than any other class I have played.

Um ok... where was your warrior or rogue? paly cant draw enough agro to taunt effectively...

also use your sheilds... it buys enough time to get the mobs off you.... you shouldnt be drawing that much agro at all.. dont use your biggest heals on peeps... it does nothing but act like a nuke on the mob for that amount of damage.. if you can get away with smaller heals use them.
your main problem is you used a paly as your tank and didnt have a true tank or Rogue to piss off the mob...

this is why pick up groups bite ass.....
I will only group with guildies and only with the perfect group to do any instance... mandatory are 1 rogue 1 warrior 1 priest 2 fillers paly is great for the filler so is a well played druid...or even another rogue for way more DPS....
Priests do require a bit of finesse but get super powerful in end game... bottom line is your group sucked...

 

[Quixfire]

OK, lets said for agruement sake the group mix was poor. That doesn't explain the crap loot I got or the low amount of silver for my effort. Nor does it make up for the three hours I spent getting to Van Cleef only to miss out on completing that quest.

 

[CVSiN]

again not a bad group make up but crappy group members...
if that had been my group we woulda ressed you before VC died... or if we could not we woulda run you back through again...

leaving you without quest completion is just lame... as for the items you got in the instance.. seems like quite a bit to me... at 45 i hardly ever walk out of an instance with that much stuff... unless im farming it for blues/greens to sell alone....
at 45 I farm DM for my hunter twink.... I get usally up to about 4 blues that are BOP =/ and maybe a handfull of green stuff...
at the level your doing VC the quest reward is way more reward than what you actually get from the dungeon itself...

 

[CVSiN]

Originally posted by: Quixfire

Originally posted by: torpid
What level is your group? Sounds like they were reckless and impatient, or too low level. There are only a couple of places where you should be fighting more than two enemies.

I was 18-19, Wife 19 Gnome Rouge, 19 Gnome Mage, 19 Human Mage, & 23 Human Paladin. We were very cautious but the times I died was when mobs spawned behind us while engaging another and each of the last three mini bosses. I didn't have any trouble when we battled 1-3 mobs, but anything over that I was left out in the wind.

Malladine, thanks for the tips. I did not know that shield created so much threat.

Oh geez i didnt see your level... well I personally will never go in DM before L20 usally more like 21... and rest of the group better be 20 as well...
other wise group generates too much agro casuing adds...

yalls level is way low for DM...

 

[MrBond]

The problem is, he can't get the quest reward now either. He needed to be able to loot the head off of VC himself to complete it, but since by the time he got back there the corpse had dissappeared, he can't.

The enemies that spawned behind you must have been the goblin engineer's robot minions. You aggro one engineer and you end up with two elite critters to kill since they release their robot when aggroed. My first time in the deadmines we aggroed like 5 engineers, it wasn't pretty. Even with a level 52 guildmate tanking for us, three of us still died.

What server are you on? If you're on Kel'Thuzad, I'd be happy to take you through the deadmines sometime. I'm only a lvl 26 mage, but I could grab some guildmates to round out the group.

18-19 isn't too low, we did it with a level 16 priest once. It's on the low side of what I'd have felt comfotable with, but if your tank is high enough you'd be ok.

 

[Malladine]

Originally posted by: CVSiN
Um ok... where was your warrior or rogue? paly cant draw enough agro to taunt effectively...

also use your sheilds... it buys enough time to get the mobs off you.... you shouldnt be drawing that much agro at all.. dont use your biggest heals on peeps... it does nothing but act like a nuke on the mob for that amount of damage.. if you can get away with smaller heals use them.
your main problem is you used a paly as your tank and didnt have a true tank or Rogue to piss off the mob...

this is why pick up groups bite ass.....
I will only group with guildies and only with the perfect group to do any instance... mandatory are 1 rogue 1 warrior 1 priest 2 fillers paly is great for the filler so is a well played druid...or even another rogue for way more DPS....
Priests do require a bit of finesse but get super powerful in end game... bottom line is your group sucked...

Use big heals on big characters...and paladins work fine as tanks with correct seal and blessing use

 

[bunker]

I played a priest to 46 in beta.

1. I never ever never used holy shield....just too much aggro generated by it (unless I was the only one left running for my life)
2. I used renew religiously
3. Used flash heal almost exclusively, rarely used the main heals when in combat
4. Never used an offensive spell while in a group.

Those tactics kept me alive through damn near every instance I went in to....remember, you can always rez after a battle, if someone falls to save the group, so be it. I also made sure the group was aware of that philosphy before starting.

EDIT: thought of something else...I also never healed anyone until they were at least past the halfway mark on their hit points.

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

In DAoC, healers were treated like royalty. The split second they drew agro, the tanks were on the mob and the casters began nuking......ANYTHING to get the mob off the healer. But, in reality, that was seldom needed. I played a Hero (warrior), obviously and drew all the agro. Someone would mez the adds and the healer would be careful not to heal me too quick or too often. If it got to the point where I was taking too much damage to be healed without the healer taking agro, then the party began backing up and the casters would start chain nuking. As soon as the healer or one of the casters drew agro or I died, the group was lost and everybody was running for the server line.

I think the problem is that you had a paladin with you. The game is made to be very easy, so having a hybrid healer was enough and you were just extraneous healage. The joys of a kiddie MMO.

 

[torpid]

Originally posted by: MrBond
The problem is, he can't get the quest reward now either. He needed to be able to loot the head off of VC himself to complete it, but since by the time he got back there the corpse had dissappeared, he can't.

The enemies that spawned behind you must have been the goblin engineer's robot minions. You aggro one engineer and you end up with two elite critters to kill since they release their robot when aggroed. My first time in the deadmines we aggroed like 5 engineers, it wasn't pretty. Even with a level 52 guildmate tanking for us, three of us still died.

What server are you on? If you're on Kel'Thuzad, I'd be happy to take you through the deadmines sometime. I'm only a lvl 26 mage, but I could grab some guildmates to round out the group.

18-19 isn't too low, we did it with a level 16 priest once. It's on the low side of what I'd have felt comfotable with, but if your tank is high enough you'd be ok.

Yeah but have you done it with all of your damage coming from level 19s trying to take on boss elites that were 2-4 levels higher? Sounds a bit low, as I said. But certainly possible.

 

[CVSiN]

Originally posted by: Malladine

Originally posted by: CVSiN
Um ok... where was your warrior or rogue? paly cant draw enough agro to taunt effectively...

also use your sheilds... it buys enough time to get the mobs off you.... you shouldnt be drawing that much agro at all.. dont use your biggest heals on peeps... it does nothing but act like a nuke on the mob for that amount of damage.. if you can get away with smaller heals use them.
your main problem is you used a paly as your tank and didnt have a true tank or Rogue to piss off the mob...

this is why pick up groups bite ass.....
I will only group with guildies and only with the perfect group to do any instance... mandatory are 1 rogue 1 warrior 1 priest 2 fillers paly is great for the filler so is a well played druid...or even another rogue for way more DPS....
Priests do require a bit of finesse but get super powerful in end game... bottom line is your group sucked...

Use big heals on big characters...and paladins work fine as tanks with correct seal and blessing use

they a fine tank but they cant taunt enough.... sheild warrior way better.. hell even a rogue with the best equip can taunt better than a paly =P I draw agro off L60 warriors and L60s palys at 46 all day long...
mobs generally dont like being hit for 600-700 a pop every second...

 

[onza]

all i have to say is, once you do hit 60, people will and wont stop msg'ing you for a group.

priest's are rare and will always be in demand

 

[Malladine]

Originally posted by: bunker
I played a priest to 46 in beta.

1. I never ever never used holy shield....just too much aggro generated by it (unless I was the only one left running for my life)
2. I used renew religiously
3. Used flash heal almost exclusively, rarely used the main heals when in combat
4. Never used an offensive spell while in a group.

Those tactics kept me alive through damn near every instance I went in to....remember, you can always rez after a battle, if someone falls to save the group, so be it. I also made sure the group was aware of that philosphy before starting.

EDIT: thought of something else...I also never healed anyone until they were at least past the halfway mark on their hit points.

I used 50% greater heal in maraudon on the 60 pal and it worked great. And I never say never

 

[Malladine]

Originally posted by: CVSiN
they a fine tank but they cant taunt enough.... sheild warrior way better.. hell even a rogue with the best equip can taunt better than a paly =P I draw agro off L60 warriors and L60s palys at 46 all day long...
mobs generally dont like being hit for 600-700 a pop every second...

i'm making a warrior with my wife, she's picked a pal. She wants to go shield, I will be going for maximum damage, it's fun so far

 

[onza]

Originally posted by: Malladine

Originally posted by: bunker
I played a priest to 46 in beta.

1. I never ever never used holy shield....just too much aggro generated by it (unless I was the only one left running for my life)
2. I used renew religiously
3. Used flash heal almost exclusively, rarely used the main heals when in combat
4. Never used an offensive spell while in a group.

Those tactics kept me alive through damn near every instance I went in to....remember, you can always rez after a battle, if someone falls to save the group, so be it. I also made sure the group was aware of that philosphy before starting.

EDIT: thought of something else...I also never healed anyone until they were at least past the halfway mark on their hit points.

I used 50% greater heal in maraudon on the 60 pal and it worked great. And I never say never

well in regaruds to thsi statement...

"I also never healed anyone until they were at least past the halfway mark on their hit points"

I would heal early and small, reason... agro management.. cause if you cast a few 200-300hp heals.. it helps with agro management instead of a HUGE 1000-1500hp cure.. but that is my own opinion, and i think that it does help reduce hate.

 

[zzzz]

Originally posted by: onza
all i have to say is, once you do hit 60, people will and wont stop msg'ing you for a group.

priest's are rare and will always be in demand

thats the truth.

 

[ggnl]

I'd like to triple reconfirm what everyone else has said. Your group was way too low and you didnt have anyone to control agro. My suggestion: don't just jump into any group that invites you. Priests are in high demand, so you should be able to demand that the group picks up a tank (warrior preferably, but hunters will do in a pinch). If the group sucks, just leave and save yourself some frustration.