Deadlift versus seated cable back extension

[presidentender]

When I first started lifting, I tended to do seated cable back extensions as an isolation exercise for spinal erectors quite a bit, in part because I didn't feel comfortable doing deadlifts until I knew what proper form was, in part because it feels really good to complete reps with the entire 300 lb deck, and in part to get some variety instead of just doing back hyperextensions all the time. One of the guys at the gym freaked out and told me to stop, because one of his friends had slipped a disk doing them.

I was pretty confident in my form, but took his advice anyway, and switched to deadlifts exclusively. But I was thinking about it: people can get hurt deadlifting too.

Now, I consider deadlifts to be a superior exercise for all the usual reasons. I hope that's not really up for debate. That said, how much of a concern is safety?

 

[SociallyChallenged]

If your form is good for deadlifts, then safety is almost no concern unless someone else interferes (bumps you, launches weights your way by having weights fall off one side, etc). If your lower back is flexed and your legs are involved like they should be, the force on your spine is minimal. The force is being controlled by your muscles. Injuries come with rounded backs where the actual spine takes too much of the weight, which can compress/damage discs at any plethora of places. Also, it depends on if you're at the correct weight for you. If your ego is too big while lifting with a friend, then your chances go way up because, once again, your muscles can only take X amount of force while progressing. If they cannot deal with the force, it goes to your spine and other axillary muscles. When that happens, muscle tears can happen or the smaller muscles can fail, leaving your back severely off-balance and jerking/tearing other muscles.

Really, healthy people worry about deadlifts too much. Start light, perfect your form, increase weight, win.

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: presidentender
When I first started lifting, I tended to do seated cable back extensions as an isolation exercise for spinal erectors quite a bit, in part because I didn't feel comfortable doing deadlifts until I knew what proper form was, in part because it feels really good to complete reps with the entire 300 lb deck, and in part to get some variety instead of just doing back hyperextensions all the time. One of the guys at the gym freaked out and told me to stop, because one of his friends had slipped a disk doing them.

I was pretty confident in my form, but took his advice anyway, and switched to deadlifts exclusively. But I was thinking about it: people can get hurt deadlifting too.

Now, I consider deadlifts to be a superior exercise for all the usual reasons. I hope that's not really up for debate. That said, how much of a concern is safety?

Deadlifts are dangerous only if you don't know how to do them right. There is always the chance of freak injury, but other than that the deadlift is so simple that there isn't much risk of hurting yourself.

The worst thing you can do is round your back and as long as you fight to keep that chest up / out, then you have nothing to worry about.

 

[TheVrolok]

The two previous posters have both pretty much summed it up. So I'll just agree; you can hurt yourself in the gym doing any number of things. If you do any kind of lifting incorrectly you're going to get hurt, if you do it correctly, you'll be fine. If you deadlift, and do it properly, you've got nothing to worry about. Honestly, I'd say doing proper deadlifting is going to help prevent you from getting hurt in other exercises - you want that strong back/core/foundation that you're going to build from deads (and squat/bench).

 

[presidentender]

I suppose what I'm more curious about is whether you all think the corresponding arguments apply to cable back extensions.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Originally posted by: presidentender
I suppose what I'm more curious about is whether you all think the corresponding arguments apply to cable back extensions.

I don't quite know what you're talking about. A google search shows up scattered results, usually just showing normal back extensions. I feel that a deadlift is best because the legs are an extra strong support to prevent the back from being overloaded. Show me cable back extensions and I'll form an opinion.

 

[TheVrolok]

Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged

Originally posted by: presidentender
I suppose what I'm more curious about is whether you all think the corresponding arguments apply to cable back extensions.

I don't quite know what you're talking about. A google search shows up scattered results, usually just showing normal back extensions. I feel that a deadlift is best because the legs are an extra strong support to prevent the back from being overloaded. Show me cable back extensions and I'll form an opinion.

It almost sounds like maybe he's talking about kneeling cable crunches or something?

 

[TallBill]

Deadlifts > all

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Originally posted by: TheVrolok

Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged

Originally posted by: presidentender
I suppose what I'm more curious about is whether you all think the corresponding arguments apply to cable back extensions.

I don't quite know what you're talking about. A google search shows up scattered results, usually just showing normal back extensions. I feel that a deadlift is best because the legs are an extra strong support to prevent the back from being overloaded. Show me cable back extensions and I'll form an opinion.

It almost sounds like maybe he's talking about kneeling cable crunches or something?

That's what I pictured, but it seems like it would be much more difficult and awkward the other way around.

 

[presidentender]

Overall, it's a poor exercise relative to normal extensions or hyperextensions because you don't get the same range of motion. Sit at a cable row machine, and instead of using your upper back, use your lower back exclusively. Keep a good lumbar arch, don't round your back, don't bring your traps into it. It's as if you were cheating at rows to the point where you're not rowing at all.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Originally posted by: presidentender
Overall, it's a poor exercise relative to normal extensions or hyperextensions because you don't get the same range of motion. Sit at a cable row machine, and instead of using your upper back, use your lower back exclusively. Keep a good lumbar arch, don't round your back, don't bring your traps into it. It's as if you were cheating at rows to the point where you're not rowing at all.

That's what I pictured at first, but figured nobody would do such an incomplete exercise. Deadlifts all the way. You have better control, you utilize more muscles, you have a better range of motion, etc. I wouldn't even suggest that for people who have injuries as an isolation exercise.

 

[presidentender]

Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged

Originally posted by: presidentender
Overall, it's a poor exercise relative to normal extensions or hyperextensions because you don't get the same range of motion. Sit at a cable row machine, and instead of using your upper back, use your lower back exclusively. Keep a good lumbar arch, don't round your back, don't bring your traps into it. It's as if you were cheating at rows to the point where you're not rowing at all.

That's what I pictured at first, but figured nobody would do such an incomplete exercise. Deadlifts all the way. You have better control, you utilize more muscles, you have a better range of motion, etc. I wouldn't even suggest that for people who have injuries as an isolation exercise.

It's a poor RoM relative to hyperextensions, certainly. It's not bad relative to DLs in terms of RoM for the lower back (vertical to straight backwards for extensions as opposed to bent over to vertical for DLs).

I suppose nobody has any input other than "zOMG DLS R GREAT," which we can all agree on?

 

[conorvansmack]

I've seen some people at the gym setting the stage for wrecking their back with cable row extensions. With a deadlift, your back/waist is never bent at 90 degrees. A lot of people reach way past 90 when doing cable rows with a lot of weight. In my short experience, once the body is bent past 90 degrees, the back rounds pretty easily.

 

[gramboh]

Never seen anyone do these before (if I am understanding it correctly). I don't know why they would be any safer/more dangerous than a deadlift or a normal back/weighted back extension. In all of them you have to focus on lumbar extension for safety right? Personally, I think I would find it harder to maintain extension in a seated position trying to hold the hands with a weight stack pulling me forward versus standing up in a DL.

 

[TheVrolok]

Originally posted by: presidentender
I suppose nobody has any input other than "zOMG DLS R GREAT," which we can all agree on?

I don't see what's wrong with that input though? Deadlifts are a fantastic exercise. One of the best exercises you can possibly do.

 

[presidentender]

Originally posted by: conorvansmack
I've seen some people at the gym setting the stage for wrecking their back with cable row extensions. With a deadlift, your back/waist is never bent at 90 degrees. A lot of people reach way past 90 when doing cable rows with a lot of weight. In my short experience, once the body is bent past 90 degrees, the back rounds pretty easily.

It's the same deal with straight-legged deadlifts.

 

[conorvansmack]

Right, at the end of the day, it comes down to proper, safe technique.
Cable row extensions don't offer the same RoM that deadlifts do, but you have already said that deadlifts are a superior exercise.