DEAD: IBM ThinkPad T23 for $999

Page 6 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Yzzyx

Member
Jun 15, 2003
27
0
0
Originally posted by: geoffkin
What HD you talking bout? The 40 Gig this T23 comes with, according to the IBM site...
Combines speedy 5400 rpm and ATA-100 technology for industry-leading performance
I linked several sources that list it as 4200RPM... Understand that there are many models of the T23, but in this case we are talking specifically about 2647-8SU... Now, there is a remote possibility that they might have switched hard drives due to parts shortages or something, but this is highly unlikely... (Honestly, 5400 is not that much faster than 4200, and this ain't a high-performance laptop anyways!)

See that PDF datasheet I linked up there? <a target=new class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.teamprimerib.com/gif/t23-1.gif">Here is an snippet
</a>
Most likely, the hard drive will be a Hitachi (Or IBM) Travelstar 40GN (IC25N040ATCS04):
http://www.hgst.com/hdd/travel/tr40gn.htm
 

elmyra42

Member
May 28, 2003
88
0
0
Originally posted by: lukatmyshu
I got mine on Friday .... unfortunately in my quest to install Linux on it I accidentally ate the partition that contains the recovery information. I called them tonight and they're going to send me a recovery CD by Tuesday.

I have one of these laptops on the way...I've never bought a laptop new before. It really doesn't come with a recovery CD? Are you having to pay to get one?
 

Yzzyx

Member
Jun 15, 2003
27
0
0

geoffkin

Senior member
Feb 9, 2000
716
0
0
Huh, I was looking at all the Specs on the IBM pages that come up after you put in your exact model #. Oh well, whatever it is must be fast enough for SO many people to love their T23's.
BTW, WELCOME to Anandtech Yzzyx. Did this Thinkpad deal get you to join?! THANKS for all the links/research!!
What are the advantages of putting Linux on it instead of using Win XP?
On E-bay, I just won a new IBM battery to use as a spare for my T23...
$36 DELIVERED!!!
 

Yzzyx

Member
Jun 15, 2003
27
0
0
Just had the T23 delivered... The drive is the 4200RPM one I mentioned before...

I have 1 bad pixel... Fortunately it is stuck and not dead, so it only shows up on a black screen... On a white screen it is invisible...

It is a lot thinner than I expected, and the laptop is very sturdy... Way more than my Toshiba it is replacing... There is no flex at all in the screen hinge and the screen back cover is very strong... This thing just reeks quality... (It is super quiet too!)

The packing date on the box is 6-6-2003... (!)

I would have joined here years ago but my regular name is taken (Xyzzy)... I usually hang out on Ars Technica...

PS - I used the free shipping deal, and got this thing in 2.5 days... I ordered Friday afternoon! So don't be fooled into paying more for shipping... :)

PPS - I just called that number I linked to above, and my free recovery CD is being shipped to me... The rep I talked to told me to expect it either tomorrow (!) or Wednesday... The only information I had to give him was the model number, serial number, my phone number and my address...
 

mrVW

Senior member
May 18, 2000
992
0
0
Anyone considering and sitting on the fence:

T23 has "out of date processor" - 1.2Ghz P3 is slow compared to most curernt laptop deals.
T23 has no firewire and USB 1.1 only. Not good for external storage.
T23 screen is conservative, 14" 1024x768

However, the quality is very good. If you really USE your laptop every day, you realize how sturdy and well built it is. The quality of the screen is good (no flicker, etc.)

I just got a Toshiba Satelite Pro 6100 with 2.2Ghz P4, DVD recorder, 15" UXGA screen, etc. My wife asked me to order her the $1000 Thinkpad instead of this $2300 Toshiba! She says the toshiba is shabby (screen base makes it wobble when typing, etc). She currently has a T21 and uses it 8 hours a day - she sees the quality difference right away.

Look at the used IBM ThinkPad's on eBay.... the hold their value real well. Even 3 months used, this unit would easily sell for $800.
 

elmyra42

Member
May 28, 2003
88
0
0
Originally posted by: Yzzyx
Originally posted by: elmyra42
Originally posted by: lukatmyshu
I have one of these laptops on the way...I've never bought a laptop new before. It really doesn't come with a recovery CD? Are you having to pay to get one?
The recovery deal shipped with the laptop is a hidden recovery partition... You can usually get a recovery CD mailed to you if you are the original owner...

http://zurich.ai.mit.edu/hypermail/thinkpad/2001-12/0292.html


Hmm...thanks for the info. I think I'll be ordering a recovery CD, I want to have one on hand if I need it.
 

Yzzyx

Member
Jun 15, 2003
27
0
0
The 1.2GHz P3-M in this laptop blows away my old 1.5GHz Celery in my Toshiba... The P3 has a higher IPC than the P4 or Celery... (I have quite a bit of experience in computer architecture and I specifically chose this CPU rather than a P4-M... I would have liked a Pentium-M (Centrino) but I'm on a pretty tight budget...)

Neato things I have noticed:

1) The little keyboard light rocks!
2) This keyboard is incredible...
3) You can adjust the volume and screen brightness without installing special programs... I wiped mine clean and just put 2003 server on it...
4) I've always hated trackpads... This TrackPoint is just what I wanted...
5) No "Windows" key!

In the last 6 months I've owned an iBook, a 12" PowerBook, my POS Toshiba and this... So far this IBM blows all those away, without question...
 

sxr7171

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2002
5,079
40
91
Originally posted by: sparkyclarky
Thinkpads are great, but I have a Latitude C400. All of the people bashing Dells obviously haven't seen this beast - it's built like a tank (I'd dare say it's their best built notebook ever). Magnesium alloy casings sure help:)

People trashing Dell here are likely buying those cheap Inspiron machines, the Latitudes are on par with IBM in terms of build and price. All Thinkpads except the cheapest budget line are business class machines, at Dell only the Latitudes are business class machines. You cannot compare the cheapo Inspiron to IBM's business class Thinkpads. The C400 is a favorite of mine (especially the older design ones) as is the wonderful little Thinkpad X-series.
 

Yzzyx

Member
Jun 15, 2003
27
0
0
Latest T23 BIOS (v1.16, 3-6-2003)... (Ships with v1.15 dated 11-22-2002)

http://www-3.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/document.do?lndocid=MIGR-39362

<1.16 - 1AET60WW>

- (New) Compatibility enhancement with SMBIOS access programs.
- (Fix) Fails to switch to WinOS2 full-screen in OS/2 Warp3.
- (New) Enahancement of the password security feature.
- (Fix) BIOS sometimes displays an error message after wakeup
from hibernation if a USB memory key is used in Windows 98.
Drive fitness tools, and others...

http://www.hgst.com/hdd/support/download.htm
 

PsychoAndy

Lifer
Dec 31, 2000
10,735
0
0
hay doods, i got some questions for you. i'm gonna be going into college, and i'm looking at laptops and desktops. I like to play games, download legal files and backups and such, and all that crap. Anyways, which would be better for me, a laptop or desktop?

second question would be what the hell is the difference between the centrino, pentium m, pentium 4 mobile, pentium 4, pentium 3 m, etc? I'm kinda confused on how this, a p3m, can be faster than a p4.

third question is, would this laptop be good for someone who just does regular computer activity, things besides games and hardcore nerd stuff?
 

PeterPan2002

Senior member
Mar 9, 2002
792
0
0
Couldn't resist anymore!!!Get one on the way! The CSR I talked to told me that they had 900 of them last week and now down to 200. What a sale!!!
 

geoffkin

Senior member
Feb 9, 2000
716
0
0
Anyone know how well the internal WIFI works? Does it have an antenna that sticks up?? That is so cool I don't have to buy an additional card and have it sticking out of my laptop like everyone else! Hope it works well out by my pool, I already have a Linksys network all hooked up with my roomies to share DSL.
 

Yzzyx

Member
Jun 15, 2003
27
0
0
The antenna is in the screen... You can't see it...

I'll post 3DMark scores in about 20 minutes...

(Be warned, this ain't no gaming machine!)
 

Yzzyx

Member
Jun 15, 2003
27
0
0
I can't figure out how to inline images here, so I'll just post the 3DMark number...

660...

To get 3DMark to run you have to install the newest video driver from windowsupdate.com... Without this update 3DMark fails immediately with an error of "P_D3D::allocateMap - CreateTexture ( for a rendertarget) failed : D3DERR_OUTOFVIDEOMEMORY"...

I killed all the processes I could before I ran it... It is 3DMark2001 SE version 330...

My old laptop has a Radeon Mobility and it scores much higher, but I bought this T23 knowing it would suck for games... I have a lot of "real" work to get done that is more important to me...
 

Yzzyx

Member
Jun 15, 2003
27
0
0
Interesting twist...

The T23 is stuck on 800MHz... I verified this in WCPUID and Prime95...

The Intel frequency checker says 1200MHz...

I tried disabling XP's CPU power savings but there was no change...

Edit: Duh! I had to edit the power profile program that IBM bundles with the laptop... (Weird how the program even works when you kill it!)

I'll rerun 3DMark right quick... (Hmm... 660 * 1.5 = 990) Let's see how close we get! :)
 

Troubadour

Member
Sep 30, 2001
112
0
0
Well, I finally bit my lip and ordered this after sitting on the fence for several days. What finally made me do it was the dwindling stocks reported by peterpan2002; probably not the best reason to get something, but I was pretty sure I'd get it after my next paycheck anyway... so this just seals it.

Man, Xyzzy, you're just a major bearer of awful news aren't you? :p 4200 rpm hard drive and 660 3dMarks o_O But as somebody else said, laptops are for WORK. And if this lasts me several years it'll be very worth the price, even to a student like me. Besides MAME doesn't use any of that directx 8 hubidijubita :p

Also I just wanted to thank everybody who posted their positive experiences with IBMs in general and this laptop in particular, you really made the difference. Otherwise I would have probably gone with an averatec laptop and hated it. Thanks again.
 

Yzzyx

Member
Jun 15, 2003
27
0
0
Hmm... 665 3DMarks...

Both Prime95 and 3DMark2001 SE didn't improve much... Maybe the frequency changes a lot or something...

Before:

Mobile Intel(R) Pentium(R) III CPU - M 1200MHz
CPU speed: 799.36 MHz
CPU features: RDTSC, CMOV, PREFETCH, MMX, SSE
L1 cache size: 16 KB
L2 cache size: 512 KB
L1 cache line size: 32 bytes
L2 cache line size: 32 bytes
TLBS: 64
Prime95 version 23.4, RdtscTiming=1
Best time for 384K FFT length: 77.995 ms.
Best time for 448K FFT length: 92.008 ms.
Best time for 512K FFT length: 105.417 ms.
Best time for 640K FFT length: 138.166 ms.
Best time for 768K FFT length: 173.262 ms.
Best time for 896K FFT length: 196.404 ms.
Best time for 1024K FFT length: 230.439 ms.
Best time for 1280K FFT length: 293.627 ms.
Best time for 1536K FFT length: 351.095 ms.
Best time for 1792K FFT length: 418.031 ms.
Best time for 2048K FFT length: 474.914 ms.

After:

Mobile Intel(R) Pentium(R) III CPU - M 1200MHz
CPU speed: 1198.91 MHz
CPU features: RDTSC, CMOV, PREFETCH, MMX, SSE
L1 cache size: 16 KB
L2 cache size: 512 KB
L1 cache line size: 32 bytes
L2 cache line size: 32 bytes
TLBS: 64
Prime95 version 23.4, RdtscTiming=1
Best time for 384K FFT length: 77.291 ms.
Best time for 448K FFT length: 92.415 ms.
Best time for 512K FFT length: 105.118 ms.
Best time for 640K FFT length: 136.746 ms.
Best time for 768K FFT length: 171.030 ms.
Best time for 896K FFT length: 195.088 ms.
Best time for 1024K FFT length: 229.698 ms.
Best time for 1280K FFT length: 290.880 ms.
Best time for 1536K FFT length: 350.392 ms.
Best time for 1792K FFT length: 416.797 ms.
Best time for 2048K FFT length: 469.691 ms.

Some interesting tidbits:

  • I hooked it up to my Wega... It worked just fine...
  • I ran the DFT on the hard drive... It passed with no errors... (It took about an hour)
  • I adjusted the HD power management settings... Default was 1/2 way between performance and power savings... I moved it to performance... (You need that "feature tool" disk I linked above)
  • You can manually shut off the screen (and only the screen) anytime... This is nice when I am in DOS or whatever and I don't want to burn up the backlight...
  • I can't tell much difference, in ordinary usage, between 800 and 1200MHz... Either setting will get the laptop pretty damn hot if you run the CPU hard... (When you are in the BIOS or booted to DOS there is no HLT clock)
  • The HD has a temp sensor in it...
 

geoffkin

Senior member
Feb 9, 2000
716
0
0
I have a 32" Sony Wega to hook this baby up to also! That'll be fun I bet.
Troubadour - I have a $500 Averatec on backorder at BestBuy right now! If I get both, I'll have to decided on one and sell the other. They are good enough deals, I'm sure I can sell either one here in Silicon Valley and make a little $ on the deal...
 

DerProfi

Senior member
Jan 11, 2001
912
0
0
Originally posted by: sxr7171
Originally posted by: sparkyclarky
Thinkpads are great, but I have a Latitude C400. All of the people bashing Dells obviously haven't seen this beast - it's built like a tank (I'd dare say it's their best built notebook ever). Magnesium alloy casings sure help:)

People trashing Dell here are likely buying those cheap Inspiron machines, the Latitudes are on par with IBM in terms of build and price. All Thinkpads except the cheapest budget line are business class machines, at Dell only the Latitudes are business class machines. You cannot compare the cheapo Inspiron to IBM's business class Thinkpads. The C400 is a favorite of mine (especially the older design ones) as is the wonderful little Thinkpad X-series.
The IT organization I used to work for from 1997-2002 handled 40,000+ users in the US, most of them with notebooks. Because all three companies were clients of our parent company, we were obligated (much to the chagrin of the IT department) to lease notebooks from IBM, Dell and Compaq and distribute them to staff at random. We got top-of-the-line models from each. In my position, I saw detailed monthly statistics regarding break/fix calls to the manufacturer, calls to our support center, etc. Although the leases were more expensive by $200 or so per unit, the IBMs were on top in all categories, Compaq was 2nd, and Dell was last. As I said, they were randomly assigned to users, but the users naturally talked among themselves about what was reliable and what wasn't. We received lots of requests (which company policy would never let us fill) to "please swap me out for a Thinkpad" but the only request I ever heard for a Latitude was from someone who was staffed on a project at a Dell office. He was afraid his client would be mad if he showed up with another brand of computer.

I love Dell desktops and Dell is also the biggest part of my measly stock portfolio because I love the company too. I also think it's great that they are able to offer their Centrino-M notebooks for such good prices, and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend one to a non-road-warrior user or a student. However, for someone who travels a lot or uses their notebook to earn a living, there's absolutely nothing I can recommend but a ThinkPad.
 

icecube

Senior member
Aug 23, 2000
205
0
0
I love/hate you guys! I convinced myself into buying one of these only because it's a great deal!!

I've used Thinkpads (600E, T22) for work for 5 years and have never had a problem. I sometimes forget this, but I actually currently work for IBM as well! (it's been over 6 months now since they bought out the consulting company I used to work for!)
 

kenja

Senior member
Sep 19, 2001
369
0
0
Some misc. replies to this thread:

What to take to college: slashdot.org I bought my T23 for the express purpose of three years of undergraduate work. If you're in the habit of falling off bikes, etc., you might want to consider a more disposable solution.

Carrying case: besides padding, it is important not to place pressure on the lid such that the LCD is marred by the keyboard/trackpoint. I cut a rectangle out of an unused plastic shower enclosure for added protection. Targus makes good stuff: In a professional leather case, the CLN5 is nice, but I wouldn't pay the asking price; I got a deal on EBay. Amazon I also have a Targus backpack from compgeeks. The notebook slot is (kinda thinly) padded on five sides and the straps are mainly constructed of polyester instead of nylon, but the carry handle is nice and I like the back pocket for storing the AC adapter without worrying about placing pressure on the T23. Worth the price, the 10% coupon codes apply; $6 FedEx ground to Seattle, 285 in stock.

I also like my Eagle Creek computer vault. Bigger than it needs to be for the T23, it fits fine in an REI Bookpacker Plus pack. There are often coupon codes around for ebags.com (a site I really like).

By default, SpeedStep is in effect when the T23 is plugged in without the battery (WTF?) In control panel, power options, SpeedStep tab: I set "Plugged In" to Maximum Performance.

Memory: I'd consider 256MB a good working minimum for WinXP with OfficeXP. I don't know of any notebooks currently in production that still use PC133, so I wouldn't expect the price of the SODIMMs to decrease any time soon. 512MB total is plenty for me (I have Win2k installed), but I just bought a 512MB module "because": I've always had to retire computers because they lacked memory size before they lacked CPU speed.
Kingston works fine for me.

I've bought batteries off EBay, the full equivalent of what came with the machine. If they're gray-market, am I supposed to feel guilty?

The "Ultrabay 2000" is great; you can get a second battery in there (not quite as big as the regular one). I had a couple of 2.5" drives laying around, so I bought
a pair of these. They only hold the drive by the connector, so it's not a good "on the go" solution, unfortunately. Easy to boot from the 2nd HDD, though.

For backup of the stuff you're working on, I highly recommend USB pen drives (also called flash drives). The USB slots are vertical, so try to get a narrow pen drive. (I got a 16MB Pingtec off EBay that just fits: Samsung memory, OTi controller, "dual bootable".) The T23 can boot off of a USB floppy or CD, but not USB HDD.

Norton Ghost 2003 has drivers for the Intel PRO/100 (wired) ethernet; works great for backing up to a desktop.

IBM.com ThinkPad forum (posts are deleted after a couple months, unfortunately).

I set the trackpoint sensitivity to "Light Touch" (control panel, mouse).

Per the official IBM forum reply: there is no problem leaving the battery installed while working on AC power, and batteries should be drawn down to the 3% level at least once a month and then recharged. I guess LiIon batteries aren't supposed to suffer from "memory effect" but I treat them as if they do.

The biggest negative to this deal, and it applies to all makes: The industry standards for a "good" LCD are terrible. IBM will not take back a display until it has 8 or 9 bad pixels. My screen was perfect until I took it across town and back; now I have an always-on white speck. So even if you inspect the unit you're buying, the screen may not stay perfect.

 

geoffkin

Senior member
Feb 9, 2000
716
0
0
Wow, thank you guys for all the INFO!! I can tell this is a good product/smart buy by all the knowledeable people, doing their homework on it!
I think I might just spring for a 512 RAM Upgrade, instead of a 256 stick. Using the latest Photoshop on the digital pictures, while listening to MP3's might tax it quite a bit, eh?

Think that ~$90 deal on 512 of Kingston at DELL is the best we can find? I want to stick with quality RAM. Did that deal require a coupon be emailed to you from DELL?
 

DerProfi

Senior member
Jan 11, 2001
912
0
0
I'm trying to figure out what kind of wireless this has got. I noticed that the specs list an Agere modem, so is it an Agere wireless card? I just want to get some idea about whether the built-in card will work as well as one of my Orinoco Gold cards.