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DEA SOD using NSA info against Americans

LightPattern

LightPattern

Senior member
Lots of alphabet soup there..
SODs = Special Operations Division

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...rds-to-the-dea-and-the-dea-is-covering-it-up/

The information shared includes “intelligence intercepts, wiretaps, informants and a massive database of telephone records,” and it’s problematic because it appears to break down the barrier between foreign counter-terrorism investigations and ordinary domestic criminal investigations.
Because the SOD’s work is classified, DEA cases that began as NSA leads can’t be seen to have originated from a NSA source.

So what does the DEA do? It makes up the story of how the agency really came to the case in a process known as “parallel construction.”
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So much for the records gathered by the NSA just being used against terrorists!
On top of that, agents are being asked to cover up the source of the information.
 
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Local terrorists.

Drugs: Causing terror by getting high or causing car crashes.
Copyright: Causing terror among RIAA and MPAA executives.
Traffic violations: Terror by speeding.

Anything wrong = terrorism, so you're potentially an enemy of the state.


Please don't mind the drones or wiretaps. For your protection.™
 
All this has led me to take a closer look at the proposed legislation that was voted on in the House (the amendment that failed 205-217):
would have prevented the National Security Agency from using section 215 of the Patriot Act to collect phone records of individuals who aren’t under investigation.
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I rejected that as a knee-jerk reaction at the time.

Something serious needs to be done. How to implement reasonable limits though...
 
I agree with this:

"You can't game the system," said former federal prosecutor Henry E. Hockeimer Jr. "You can't create this subterfuge. These are drug crimes, not national security cases. If you don't draw the line here, where do you draw it?"
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When all this NSA stuff leaked, the main objection was "what if this got abused?"

And every leader from Obama on down swore it would never be abused.

Well now we have proof it was abused. And what will be done? Jack squat.

O'er the land of the unfree and the home of the cowards.
 
The data exists, and it will be misused. Expect more mission creep as various other law enforcement agencies, along with the copyright industry, get access to this. Police state, anyone?
 
poofyhairguy said:
I agree with this:

"You can't game the system," said former federal prosecutor Henry E. Hockeimer Jr. "You can't create this subterfuge. These are drug crimes, not national security cases. If you don't draw the line here, where do you draw it?"
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Exactly.

When all this NSA stuff leaked, the main objection was "what if this got abused?"

And every leader from Obama on down swore it would never be abused.

Well now we have proof it was abused. And what will be done? Jack squat.

O'er the land of the unfree and the home of the cowards.
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Congresspeople as late as yesterday were still claiming it never had been abused. I'll keep my eyes peeled to see if that continues.

What can be done.. Obama can lead as he promised. He would have support in Congress, as they almost passed that amendment I mentioned, except for a strong last minute push by the administration to stop it.

Your question though.. "what will be done?" I wish I had more inspiration, but I'll sure as hell promote any ideas on TED or Internet forums or any other platform where bright minds put their heads together.
 
Atreus21 said:
I'd wager nothing will be done. This is a genie that's not about to get back in the bottle.
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Oh sure, we can stuff it back into a bottle, and I'm sure they will. A quiet, closed, locked, exceedingly opaque bottle, stashed out in the middle of nowhere; no one in office will even admit to its existence.

And then interestingly enough, most of the Internet's traffic will find itself being detoured right through that bottle.


I figure that's all that'll happen - it'll just become more hushed, more secretive, and even more closed off.
Want to be a whistleblower then? You'd best do it very anonymously, from a country without an extradition treaty with the US.
And maybe look into moving to a remote region of the Andes Mountains to live out the remainder of your days as a most-wanted "terrorist."
 
Kadarin said:
The data exists, and it will be misused. Expect more mission creep as various other law enforcement agencies, along with the copyright industry, get access to this. Police state, anyone?
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/this


I am surprised there ain't more of a uproar on this. we have proof NSA is useing it in unconstitutional ways
 
Good. These stories are coming out of a fire hose now. Even liberal mags are pouncing on them. I want to see the fire stoked until government actually does something about it.

There's no denying now that the US is the vanguard of the surveillance society.

I want to see political careers destroyed by loose lips. There are far more anthony weiners than we see now and the mishandling of data is going to sink careers. Then perhaps those charged with legislating will do it in the interests of the people.
 
Question for legal eagles.

Is this legal? It seems that the evidence would be compromised if the means by which it was obtained was a lie. The arrest and trial would be contrived by what I would think improper means.
 
Hayabusa Rider said:
But it appears that isn't true unless it has a warrant to access the NSA database.
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Which is what the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court is for.
The original article (and several others I read at that time) insinuated the NSA coordinated information through the SOD and the SOD effectively laundered the information so that it was cleared for tip offs to the DEA and others. So they were doing an end run around the court.

More recent articles are drawing more seperation between the NSA's resources and other law enforcement:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/08/08/irs_dhs_intel_laundering_instructions/

DICE is separate from the NSA's records of people's phone calls, as revealed by whistleblower and ex-CIA techie Edward Snowden. An NSA official told Reuters that its database is not used for domestic law enforcement.
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The DEA doesn't have direct access to the NSA's databases so they have their own: DICE. Yet the NSA is under constant pressure from other law enforcement agencies to share more then just "tips."

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/08/dea-and-nsa-team-intelligence-laundering
Ultimately, if you build it, they will come. There's no doubt that once word got out about the breadth of data the NSA was collecting and storing, other law enforcement agencies would want to get their hands in the digital cookie jar. In fact, the New York Times reported on Sunday that other agencies have tried to get information from the NSA to "curb drug trafficking, cyberattacks, money laundering, counterfeiting and even copyright infringement."
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As others here have speculated.
 
Your government seems to be overdue for collapse and starting over. It is clearly non-functional and is working against its people.

The question is...will you clean the house by setting the bloody idiots on fire or will you do nothing while your society slowly degenerates into a cruel form of 1984 coupled with Idiocracy?
 
Harabec said:
Your government seems to be overdue for collapse and starting over. It is clearly non-functional and is working against its people.

The question is...will you clean the house by setting the bloody idiots on fire or will you do nothing while your society slowly degenerates into a cruel form of 1984 coupled with Idiocracy?
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Good one there!

But um.. Israel ey? Word is the NSA worked with your gov on Stuxnet, so.. you're welcome.

How do your civil liberties feel over there?
 
There are no civil liberties here. Just to be clear, I'll never point to Israel as a beacon of freedom 😛 Sure, it is FAR better to be here than in Egypt or Sudan, but with technology comes more and more oppression, "for our own good", of course.

It is 2013 and we're still battling crazed fundamentalists for a chance to live free of religious laws and our Ministry of Finance will not be happy until every citizen is chained by taxes and sucked dry.
 
Harabec said:
There are no civil liberties here. Just to be clear, I'll never point to Israel as a beacon of freedom 😛 Sure, it is FAR better to be here than in Egypt or Sudan, but with technology comes more and more oppression, "for our own good", of course.

It is 2013 and we're still battling crazed fundamentalists for a chance to live free of religious laws and our Ministry of Finance will not be happy until every citizen is chained by taxes and sucked dry.
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I see. Oy.

Regarding the bolded, I would say that's true for general government oppression of the masses yes. But for individuals who are tech savvy there are plenty of ways to step through the firewalls, as some Chinese friends of mine have attested.
Greater tech frees us in so many ways as I'm sure you appreciate since you're on this forum. The right balance can be struck, and I am generally a progressive optimist, so I believe it will be.
 
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