DDR vs. RDRAM at Computex:

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Noriaki

Lifer
Jun 3, 2000
13,640
1
71
Actually I don't know if QDR SDRAM will ever see the light of day.

DDR-II is actually a lot more like Rambus than SDRAM.

I tend to agree with Fkloster in the repsect that high speed serial interfaces are really the way to go.

And I think if more people would produce Rambus it's costs would go down.

I just don't like Rambus on principle. RDRAM is a good memory technology.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,402
8,574
126


<< I just don't like Rambus on principle. RDRAM is a good memory technology. >>


here here! it powered my n64 just fine, and if i ever feel like it, a ps2 as well. i just don't like the company. bunch of fraudulent lawyers.
 

pidge

Banned
Oct 10, 1999
1,519
0
0
It may be a while before I go back to Intel. AMD has made me very happy with their price points and reliability of their 760 chipset. In late August (most likely early september), I will upgrade to nForce. I used to work for Intel and I remember how much the engineers were against Rambus at the time and how they felt it would have been difficult to impliment and how it was problematic. But the Intel powers that be saw how much money they tought they could make and became long term partners with Rambus. This led to higher costs for people who bought the 820, 840 and 850 chipsets and RDRAM. Not only that but also the infamous chipset problems with the 820 chipset. AMD has kept improving their technology and making up for the higher motherboard chipset costs by offering the best price/performance processors. My system has been running so amazingly stable. I love my system so much.

BTW, I do not work for AMD. I just love their processors a lot now.
 

Sohcan

Platinum Member
Oct 10, 1999
2,127
0
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fkloster, I disagree that the P4 needs serial memory to perform well...from the perspective of the CPU, the only thing that matters is bandwidth and latency. The P4 is said to perform well with DRDRAM simply because it was designed assuming that the higher latency DRDRAM would be used with it; the dual Rambus channels on the i850 and the P4's hardware prefetch hides much of the latency.

IIRC, any DRDRAM read operation requires 16-bytes, so after the initial address is applied, eight sequential words of 16 bits each are transfered serially down the bus in a burst. The data gets parallelized in the memory control using 16 8-bit wide shift registers before it gets sent to the CPU.


The data has to be parallelized sometime...it's a simple fact that operations in hardware are performed much faster in parallel than serially. In digital logic design, serial arithmetic hardware is often taught first because it's design is relatively simple, whereas parallel units are sometimes more complex and less intuitive to design. But what would you rather have in your CPU, a serial non-restoring multiplier that takes 96 clock cycles (96 ns at 1 GHz) to do a 32-bit multiply, or a 5-level carry-save Wallace tree that does the same operation in 17 logic gate delays (around 1ns given today's transistor technology)? :) Serial makes sense for high-speed buses (such as Rambus, Serial ATA, and Hypertransport), but CPUs will always be parallel. After all, Intel plans to use IA-64's EPIC architecture for the next 30 years, which explicitly defines the parallel execution of instructions in the instruction set.

That being said, I still think that the i845 is a dead-end product....PC133 simply cannot provide enough bandwidth for the P4, and if/when the platform supports PC2100, it probably won't have enough bandwidth for the latest and greatest P4. To address the original question, I really don't think Intel is releasing the i845 mearly to make DRDRAM look better than SDRAM...it doesn't really make any business sense to purposefully release a bad product simply to make another one of your products look good. Evidently Intel believes that they can boost low-end P4 sales with the i845, and that's why they're releasing it.

A Crush chipset for the P4, on the other hand, would be different...it has a large amount of bandwidth, and it's crossbar/dual memory controller configuration can reduce latency and increase efficiency like the dual-channel Rambus on the i850.

Of course, all this could change if the rumors that Northwood will have an integrated DRDRAM controller are true. :)
 

fkloster

Diamond Member
Dec 16, 1999
4,171
0
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<< I disagree that the P4 needs serial memory to perform well.... >>



I stand corrected. I actually was more concerned with i8xx chipsets ability to 'talk' or 'translate' to parrallel memory. I am wary of memory controller hubs...
 

CovertCow

Member
Jun 5, 2001
194
0
0
Tell me if I'm wrong, but NVIDIA's &quot;Crush&quot; seems as though it would nearly double the bandwidth for DDR RAM. This would put it in closer competition in bandwidth with RDRAM wouldn't it?

I was also curious if any of you know when the Crush will be availiable to consumers.
 

Texmaster

Banned
Jun 5, 2001
5,445
0
0


<<

<< I disagree that the P4 needs serial memory to perform well.... >>



I stand corrected. I actually was more concerned with i8xx chipsets ability to 'talk' or 'translate' to parrallel memory. I am wary of memory controller hubs...
>>



And Rambus is getting cheaper in price all the time...
 

Sohcan

Platinum Member
Oct 10, 1999
2,127
0
0
I don't know if this has been discussed (I haven't been following hardware as much recently), but is the i845 the bastard child of the i850 (like the i820+MTH was to the i820), or is it it's own design?
 

FozzyofAus

Junior Member
Feb 12, 2001
6
0
0


<< Tell me if I'm wrong, but NVIDIA's &quot;Crush&quot; seems as though it would nearly double the bandwidth for DDR RAM. This would put it in closer competition in bandwidth with RDRAM wouldn't it? >>



NVIDIA doesn't seem to be interesting in bringing out Crush for use with Intel processors at this point in time. I'm sure there are some really big political / licencing / business reasons for this as there's certainly no technical reason.

The Crush chipset for a Pentium IV would blow the i850 out of the water. It has greater bandwidth than dual RDRAM and it promises significantly lower latency than RDRAM (or any other chipset / memory combination for that matter).

Personally I'm interesting in seeing how two AthlonMP 1.2Ghz processors on the 760MP compare to a single 1.5Ghz Athlon4 on the Nvidia chipset. Assuming both systems are using a Nvidia Geforce3 of course.

Michael.
 

insane

Senior member
Jan 7, 2000
263
0
0
Nvidia is Suck
The smuts charge you about $50 for a chipset and the current KT133A cost about $10. I doubt the Crush will be a succes that's a increase of 500% are the fu**** crazy?

Bye
insane
 

Pabster

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
16,986
1
0
Marty wrote:

&quot;Well, the i845 supports DDR, and Intel is only allowing the support of SDRAM. That tells you that DDR performs sufficiently close to DRDRAM that Intel fears it will cut into the i850's market.&quot;

Hardly. The reason i845 will be SDRAM-only for the next year is because of Intel's ridiculous marketing/licensing agreement with RAMBUSt. They won't allow Intel to develop or market a board with DDR until it expires. Pentium 4 performs miserably with SDRAM, mediocre with DDR. It is designed around the high-latency RDRAM, and has several &quot;features&quot; to &quot;hide&quot; the latency which is inherent in RDRAM. I can understand them doing it to lower the cost of P4 boards and total system expense, but the performance penalty makes any cost savings negate.

As a few others have noted, it depends on what type of applications you are running. *Most* depend on latency; That gives the crown to SDRAM/DDR easily. A few programs require and are dependent on bandwidth; RDRAM is able to blast away SDR/DDR in that arena.