Dawn of War 3 Announced

[biostud]

https://www.dawnofwar.com/

https://youtu.be/N_ZgyNoHtjw




7/9-2016 Update

Gameplay footage

http://www.techspot.com/news/65513-relic-shows-off-giant-mechs-base-building-narrated.html

 

[Subyman]

I tried to play coop with a friend in DoW2 recently and it was rough. It hasn't aged well. I hope they go back to the older DoW1 gameplay. I loved DoW1, but couldn't get into DoW2. The reliance on hero units killed it for me. I loved the base building and strategic points in DoW1. It solved the turtle problem and made players quickly engage each other. Brilliant. I'd be up for something completely different too though, just not DoW2 again please!

 

[Zenoth]

OH MY GOD

I... I think I'm crying (obliged, being a huge WH40K fan(boy)).

And, on the official page, if you scroll down a bit, we can read: " Prepare for more epic action as you wage war with massive armies across landscapes full of volcanic terrain or on battlecruisers in space. "

I'm in full Nerdgasm 9000 mode right now. I feel like going on my roof with a megaphone to yell out of joy as loud as I possibly can.

SEGA, do NOT fuck that one up, give Relic the time they need to work on it. Don't rush it, or I swear I'll call His wrath upon you.

 

[GoodRevrnd]

HYPE

Anyone notice this quote?

"Our biggest units ever? Check. Giant orbital lasers? Check. Base-building, epic heroes, huge battles, it's all in there," claimed Relic's Stephen MacDonald in a statement.

Now frankly, I don't care for base building that much, which is why I think all the Relic games and Ground Control 2 are the best RTSes ever. But I know base building is a huge sticking point with a lot of people here. HOWEVER, I think removing base building made the tech tree too vertical in DoW2. I liked the first CoH the best. It was there, not very meaningful, but it influenced tech decisions and certain other efficiencies. Furthermore, the DoW2 SP campaign was a boring disaster and they need to get the series back on track with proper RTS elements on both sides of the coin. I'm loved the hero units, they were an important and impactful tool in all engagements which enhanced the tactical gameplay. I just did not like that the single player game WAS the hero units.

 

[Skel]

finally Titans..

 

[Zenoth]

HYPE

Anyone notice this quote?

Now frankly, I don't care for base building that much, which is why I think all the Relic games and Ground Control 2 are the best RTSes ever. But I know base building is a huge sticking point with a lot of people here. HOWEVER, I think removing base building made the tech tree too vertical in DoW2. I liked the first CoH the best. It was there, not very meaningful, but it influenced tech decisions and certain other efficiencies. Furthermore, the DoW2 SP campaign was a boring disaster and they need to get the series back on track with proper RTS elements on both sides of the coin. I'm loved the hero units, they were an important and impactful tool in all engagements which enhanced the tactical gameplay. I just did not like that the single player game WAS the hero units.

I love the base building in Dawn of War 1 (and its expansions). It's perfectly balanced, it's not too much either. In fact it pretty much just follows the Command & Conquer style by the letter. You have your typical barracks, a research center, vehicles-production building (or a 'war factory' I suppose, just using typical RTS naming for examples), one Headquarters / Stronghold (the Imperial's HQ building in DoW is great, allowing for up to 3 infantry squads to gather inside, giving the building automated defenses going by strength phases), there's also a 'hero building' (there's exceptions though, for example the Space Marines' Force Commander can be called from regular barracks, and the Chaplain comes from the Stronghold; however, the Librarian is found in the Sacred Artifact building), and you have your power / requisition structures ('power plant / generator'). Then, of course, your usual defenses (turrets, which by the way both the Tau and Dark Eldar do not have, requiring a more offensive approach in play style at all times to ensure you keep pressure outside of your base to maintain in-base security; best defense is a good offense). I mean it's nothing complicated, and DoW's base building serves its purpose. It's an 'extra' layer of management to focus on during the first moments when the game starts, then once your base is built and your defenses are up (either in the base itself or elsewhere if you sent your worker units to build them on the field) you can entirely focus on your offensive actions on the field with your squads and vehicles like you would in any other RTS games out there.

That's exactly why I had my mind blown when I first learned that base building was entirely gone in Dawn of War 2, because it was not a problem in DoW1. It's not like base building actually removed anything from the original (and its expansions). Having base building did NOT 'slow down' action on the field, did NOT make my brain hurt "because uuuugh me no able to think too much! ...ergh... which button makes this thing go!". I mean, why? WHY removing base building? To "try something new"? Well, at the time, I thought it was just bullshit, and I considered Dawn of War 2 a streamlined and rushed game. My concept of an actual RTS game is that it simply couldn't be without base building included. So I thought at the time (when DoW2 was still in advertisement and previews mode prior to release) that Relic had gone down the drain, that they had to rush the game out, and to ensure that they could rush it out they actually HAD to cut out base building from it entirely, and then invent a pseudo philosophy behind their decision; telling us things like "BUT, BUT it's going to CHANGE your playstyle! Imagine! IMAGINE the FUN you'll have by ONLY having to care about your units and NOTHING ELSE!". So anyway, fast forward months after DoW2's release, a really good, impossible-to-resist deal on it popped-up on Steam and I went for it, wanted to give it a shot to make up my mind about that whole "lack of base building" stuff. To be honest, during the first few days of playing it (both campaign, skirmishes, as well as a few online matches) I could NOT bring myself to like it. But, nevertheless, with enough time spent playing it I eventually saw in DoW2 a 'different' approach, rather than a 'lacking' one. It took me a LOT of time and effort on my part to 'get used to it'. And it's not just "because it's Dawn of War", it's because it would take me the same amount of efforts to get used to ANY so-called RTS games out there that do NOT have base building included. To me, removing base building in an RTS makes about as much sense as it would to remove platforming in a Super Mario Bros game, or removing the first-person view in DOOM. I simply associate base building with RTS as much as I need to breath.

So anyway, with enough time, I learned to like DoW2 (and both expansions) for what they are (I.E., simply put, nevertheless VERY good games on their own).

Now, the thing is... we're talking about Relic Entertainment here. Those guys are awesome. I actually own Every. Single. One. of their games (ALL of them). I actually like all of them (I can't think of many other developers out there in the same veins for me). They just happened to make the best RTS of all time (of course, speaking for myself, but for me that's DoW1, especially with Dark Crusade, but I also love Soulstorm with the community patch), so I DO have a LOT of faith in them for DoW3. Yes, I eventually acclimated to the lack of base building in Down of War 2 and 'learned' to love it nonetheless (although I just don't play it online for skirmishes, I play those offline; however I do play a LOT of Last Stand, almost daily in fact since the past five years, and even more lately since the out-of-the-blue release of the Necron unit). With this said, however, I cannot lie and I have to admit that I still would definitely prefer it if DoW3 includes base building. But here's the thing, I do NOT want exaggerated base building requirements either. I don't want nor need to have... for example... 2 or 3 different barracks, 2 or 3 different power plants, or multitudes of building-specific upgrades or... I mean I don't want to have my attention split on too many things to care for at the same time, that's when an RTS can lose me. I DO like and do want base building, I just don't want to spend 30 minutes building and upgrading stuff either. I like it when things are balanced, have a simple purpose and aren't too distracting from doing something else that you should be doing instead (you know, like... fighting the enemy?). That's why I'd like it if DoW3 could come back to DoW1's simple, straightforward and balanced base building (Company of Heroes' base building is pretty much DoW1's too).

However, if Dawn of War 3 does not have base building (I.E. not at all), then as long as the battles are absolutely EPIC in scale, as long as it gives me a good-enough campaign (well, apparently THREE campaigns), as long as it FEELS like it's a Warhammer 40K game, then BRING IT BABY, my body is ready. And this time, unlike I did for DoW2, I will NOT hesitate and it's going to be my first pre-order since a long time. Now, excuse me while I go watch the trailer for the 7th time.

 

[GoodRevrnd]

I find if base building requirements are exaggerated--namely multiple unit producing structures, which I don't like--then base building *tends* to be superfluous. This is particularly true in Relic games where victory is objective based rather than outright destruction. Granted, having some base structures provides you with opportunities to cripple your opponent, but I found in practice this tactic tends to be rarely utilized and usually map dependent.

 

[Qbah]

Tears of joy :awe:

That trailer was so epic.... "In the face of death, I shall have no remorse". The slowness, the brutality... it was perfect! Can't wait

 

[JSt0rm]

base building is good.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

base building is good.

Agreed
I don't get how the titans will work, isn't it 40K lore that they're 400 meter tall (give or take)?
How will that fit on a map or will they finally allow enormous zoom if so will that make the game less squad based?

Edit:
Seems like all things 40k there is different lore to their size

Or

I prefer the super massive ones. I fail to see how a few squads of 45 meter tall war machines could topple an entire planet

 

[Zanovar]

Hoo haa good news indeed.loved the trailer.

 

[Zenoth]

Agreed
I don't get how the titans will work, isn't it 40K lore that they're 400 meter tall (give or take)?
How will that fit on a map or will they finally allow enormous zoom if so will that make the game less squad based?

Edit:
Seems like all things 40k there is different lore to their size

Or

I prefer the super massive ones. I fail to see how a few squads of 45 meter tall war machines could topple an entire planet

For now, I'll wildly guess that if they want to 'properly' show [big] scales in the game (Infantry to Vehicles, to Buildings, to Titans, etc) then they will almost certainly have to allow us to zoom all the way up sky high (probably literally so). They might go with a camera / zoom / scale system similar to the one in Supreme Commander. In fact, at least from the RTSes that I've played, the only such games I can think of that did massive scale battles and used a far-zooming camera system are Supreme Commander and the Total War series (for the dynamic field battles of course). Additionally, they might allow full 3D camera with rotations as well, and not fixing the camera in a bird's eye view all the time (such as in the Total War series).

Time will tell, but I do think that we might have something in the veins of Supreme Commander. And, side note regarding the camera, interestingly enough, let's remember that we can already rotate the camera pretty much in full 3D space during skirmishes in DoW1 for example.

Now, regarding the Titans and their sizes. It's true, there's no real, official, centralized database that states exactly how big and tall they (can) get. There's various sources, and it's pretty much free-for-all for authors of WH40K work, probably as long as you don't just straight up exaggerate the statistics of "your" Titan(s). I know there are authors of WH40K novels that merely invent sizes (because they themselves don't have references, they have no other choice), and sometimes the exact same Titan class / model in another book will be given a completely different size (and even different armaments) because that book's author also had no idea and just went guessing mode on it.

It's a bit like the Star Wars' Expended Universe, as long as you sort of remain within a certain framework you kind of just invent what you want, and what you have to for your story-telling (species, ships, weapons, etc). In the end, there's no 'enforced' and official Titan specifications (not that I know of anyway), so we ultimately end up with - literally - individual takes on them by various sources and authors. So, even Relic Entertainment will have to take some guesses here and there for their "own versions" of their Titans in the game. If they wanted to, they could just give us a 5 kilometers-high Emperor Titan, but that wouldn't make that Titan any more 'official' than any others before in other sources.

In the trailer, for example, one Titan I can easily identify is the Imperial Knight (it's the two Titans with a chainsaw on one arm and a cannon on the other; and side note, that type of weaponry combination on Knights is not standardized, it can be modified based on situational needs before deployment). The Knights are 'known' to be smaller than Warhound Scout Titans (that's what I meant by 'framework' earlier, there's sort of limits you can't go beyond because they've been established through and via enough sources over the years to be considered 'official', or 'official enough'). Then again, 'smaller', but by how much? Well, you can vary that, as long as you don't make it as small as an actual infantry unit of course, and not taller than a Warhound... then again... what is the minimum Warhound height? We don't know. Yeah, it's a mess.

Another note, coming back on the trailer. The Imperial Knights attack what looks like to be a trio of Eldar Wraithlords. So, I'm not an expert on the WH40K universe, I merely happen to LOVE it. But, technically-speaking, - and any actual knowledgeable person with enough 40K lore expertise correct me, if I'm wrong - Wraithlords are NOT Titans (at least, I've never seen a source referring to them as such, but maybe they are, not 100% certain on that). However, that I do know, they ARE taller than Imperial Knights (another sort of "known" within the Titans specifications framework of the WH40K lore). So what I'm trying to say here is that at least only going by the trailer, we might get smaller-sized Titan classes if we do get them, and might not have the big(gest) ones.

One last thing though, when it comes to Eldar Titans... my problem is that many of their classes are lookalikes and can be identified mostly going by their height alone. In the trailer, to me anyway, it DOES look like they are Wraithlords... BUT... they also do look like a Wraithknight. The problem is, a Wraithknight is probably a good 8, 9 or 10 times taller than an Imperial Knight (and the trailer clearly demonstrates that the Knight jumps a bit to cut through the Wraithlord, simply because it happens to be about the same size, which leads me to believe that indeed it's a Wraithlord, and not an actual proper Eldar Titan per se).

Then again... I'm no WH40K expert on the subject and I'm just going by my own knowledge. If anyone knows more about this Titans size thing, let me (us) know. It's fun speculation for now I guess, if anything. But ultimately it might indeed have an important role in game-play itself (and related to the camera / zooming system they'll use if they truly want to properly represent massive scales on all fronts, and not just in terms of number of units on the field).

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

Love WH40k but prefer first person shooter style. in other words...when are we going to get an MMOFPS where we can pilot a 200m titan? Or hell, a Starcraft one with Thors even.


I know there's the Eternal Crusade game coming, but it's turd person, and I hadn't heard if there will be Titans.

 

[Majes]

I'm actually quite excited for this...
I was just thinking the other day that it's a darn shame that RTS has been replaced by MOBA's. But maybe will we still get a few decent RTS games in the future.
Here's hoping this works out well!

 

[VashHT]

I thought knights were pretty tiny compared to titans, if you go by the models there not really that big compared to some of the units they had in DOW1. Also I think those are wraithknights not wraithlords, they're the equivalent "big unit" in the tabletop game at least, wraithlords are much smaller.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Game overview here:
http://www.pcgamer.com/dawn-of-war-3-inside-relics-biggest-rts-yet/

It doesn't sound very different from the previous but that is not really a bad thing.

 

[norseamd]

Given their marketing, and even more so the changes in Relic and Sega since the last games came out, Dawn of War 3 is not going to be any better, and probably even worse.

 

[norseamd]

Now, the thing is... we're talking about Relic Entertainment here. Those guys are awesome. I actually own Every. Single. One. of their games (ALL of them). I actually like all of them (I can't think of many other developers out there in the same veins for me). They just happened to make the best RTS of all time (of course, speaking for myself, but for me that's DoW1, especially with Dark Crusade, but I also love Soulstorm with the community patch), so I DO have a LOT of faith in them for DoW3.

You have to realize that Relic Entertainment is not the same company as in 2004, when Dawn of War came out. They are effectively SEGA Pacific development studio as of 2016.

 

[Rhezuss]

Can't damn wait...

DoW3
Space Hulk Deathwing
Inquisitor Martyr
Eisenhorn Xenos
...

It's a great year for 40k video games!

 

[Elcs]

Odd double post

 

[Elcs]

From what I've seen and read I might avoid Dawn of War 3, despite enjoying 1, being a huge fan of 2 and my collection of over 60 WH40k books including some of the graphic novels and limited print editions.

I think adding in Knights is a step too far. Dreadnoughts are already quite rare except in large scale engagements and you'd need a pretty horrendous engagement to consider unleashing even a Dread.

The return of base building is my biggest bug-bear. Space Marines aren't big base people. They are more scalpel, excise the wound and let the Imperial Guard mop up. Of course they'll have firebases and strongholds on the biggest and most bloody battlefields but yeah, that aspect turns me off the idea.

The massacre in the trailer suggests a return to the Dawn of War 1 Space Marine grinder where they die by the boat load and in rather equivalent numbers as the Orks and Eldar. In Dawn of War 2 they portrayed the Space Marines in an okay way, in such a way that they were rather epic but still fallible and that's the way they tend to be in the books with some certain exceptions. If they drop like flies against what should be their lessers in equal combat then it kills the game immersion for me... much like MechWarrior Online did for me when they decided to move so far away from the rules it was just Big Stompy Robots Online.

Knights Vs. Wraithknights - Seriously... a Battle Cannon (I think it was the standard Battle Cannon, not a Thermal Cannon) did zip to reinforced Wraithbone. Seriously? I'm not expecting massive damage but at the very least there should have been a chunk or two taken off.

Only 3 races? Thankfully my most hated OP pairing of Tyranids and Necrons aren't in but a game without Chaos feels like Luke without Darth, Sonny without Cher... I'm going to find some Daemonettes to play with once I've finished my Khorne Flakes.

finally Titans..

In the trailer? Those were not Titans. They were Knights... about 1.5-2 times the size of a Dread. I think the Eldar were Wraithknights which I believe are the Eldar equivalent of their Imperial counterparts, that step above the Wraithlord/Dreadnought.

A Warhound Titan, the smallest of the lot is around 12-16 metres'ish as previously mentioned in the thread the Titan scale is so wonky that no-one really knows and if GW set it in stone now there would have to be either a serious retcon or some rather superfluous fluff statement to say that Mars made them 15.734m tall and Aurelia made them 12.452m tall because of the size of the people on the planet ... or some randomness.

 

[Stg-Flame]

OH MY GOD

I... I think I'm crying (obliged, being a huge WH40K fan(boy)).

And, on the official page, if you scroll down a bit, we can read: " Prepare for more epic action as you wage war with massive armies across landscapes full of volcanic terrain or on battlecruisers in space. "

I'm in full Nerdgasm 9000 mode right now. I feel like going on my roof with a megaphone to yell out of joy as loud as I possibly can.

SEGA, do NOT fuck that one up, give Relic the time they need to work on it. Don't rush it, or I swear I'll call His wrath upon you.

Well said. I couldn't tell since I had my headphones on, but my girlfriend told me I was squealing like a 12-year old girl at an N-Sync concert. Reference might be dated but when I was in my early teens, they were the biggest heartthrob for the girls.

I won't lie, I got even more excited when I saw Relic's name up there. I've been waiting since Dark Crusade for my base building to come back. I would say Soulstorm, but that game was a mess and couldn't get into it.

 

[sweenish]

Is thirty, talks like sixty.

 

[Fenixgoon]

really preferred DOW1 over 2 - i thought DOW2 was too squad focused, and obviously there was next to no base building comparatively (even though i enjoyed the campaigns). always excited to see a new DOW though.

 

[norseamd]

Yes base building is fun, but the direction that DOW 2 was moving to was superior. A TBS campaign with strategic movement, base building, and unit training, combined with the RTS battles, is a perfect system that unfortunately is insufficiently used in video games today. Back in the years when Relic had still been in the general mindset of the first DOW games, they had indicated that any potential DOW 3 would move further in this direction. Obviously, as with any developer purchased by a publisher, over time, year by year, the developer gradually ceases to exist as its old self, and effectively becomes another faceless arm of a publishing conglomerate.