Dawkins 1 - Creationists 0

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Cerpin Taxt

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
11,940
542
126
It is a repeat of your own claim. Or did the magic make you not see that too?
It is the height of dishonesty to repeat your assertion about this alleged claim of mine when I've repeatedly requested a citation for that very claim you allege, and you've simply pretended those requests don't exist.

Here, these aren't going anywhere until they are addressed:

A statement of belief requires supporting evidence or else it is a faith based belief. This is a known thing, and is part of the very definition of the word faith.
It is not true that you believe without any evidence whatsoever that you are not being supernaturally tricked into believing a falsehood?

You also claim he showed support
Please cite this claim that you have attributed to me, or admit it is in fact you (as usual) that is dishonest.

...but refuse to show it
Faith-based belief.

...then say this support is magically hidden from me but you can see it.
Please quote me where I have made this claim.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
It is the height of dishonesty to repeat your assertion about this alleged claim of mine when I've repeatedly requested a citation for that very claim you allege, and you've simply pretended those requests don't exist.

Faith-based belief.

Maybe the magical guy you keep referencing is making you see or not see things.


See, I can do it too. Pretty neat, eh?
 

Cerpin Taxt

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
11,940
542
126
Faith-based belief.
Of course it is. Every a posteriori fact believed by an individual is faith based at a most basic level. That's the point. You attempted to distinguish another person's belief from your own on the basis that his were "faith based," but the reality is that your beliefs do not lack that quality either.

Maybe the magical guy you keep referencing is making you see or not see things.
Maybe he is, but it doesn't refute the point.

See, I can do it too. Pretty neat, eh?
You're only bolstering my point, but you're too desperately caught up in avoiding the reality of your hypocrisy to realize it.

It would be nice to have a discussion with someone that was actually interested in the truth. Maybe someday you can stop being so pathetically disingenuous and deal with the facts in a forthright manner. I won't be holding my breath.

Oh, and these are still awaiting your comments:

A statement of belief requires supporting evidence or else it is a faith based belief. This is a known thing, and is part of the very definition of the word faith.
It is not true that you believe without any evidence whatsoever that you are not being supernaturally tricked into believing a falsehood?

You also claim he showed support
Please cite this claim that you have attributed to me, or admit it is in fact you (as usual) that is dishonest.

...but refuse to show it
Faith-based belief.

...then say this support is magically hidden from me but you can see it.
Please quote me where I have made this claim.
 

Onceler

Golden Member
Feb 28, 2008
1,262
0
71
What do you mean by driving it to a purpose? Like are you saying that certain species will survive even if they aren't suited to their environment? Or that god is the cause of mutations that allow certain species to survive or die off? or...

I am saying that there is purpose behind evolution, extinction, mutation.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
Please quote me where I have made this claim.

Faith based belief.

See, I can do it too. You start off being stupid, then want to be taken seriously after a long run of being stupid. Does not work that way. You gave up your chance at having an intelligent conversation long past.
 

Cerpin Taxt

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
11,940
542
126
Faith based belief.
Beliefs are declarative sentences. What you quoted me saying was an imperative sentence. It was an instruction, not a belief. Christ almighty, you never cease to out-stupid yourself.

See, I can do it too.
But you're not "doing it." I made a point, but you're just evading.

You start off being stupid, then want to be taken seriously after a long run of being stupid. Does not work that way. You gave up your chance at having an intelligent conversation long past.
My question was coherent and legitimate. Call it "stupid" all you like, but your the more you dodge it, the more obvious your dishonesty becomes.

Here they are:

A statement of belief requires supporting evidence or else it is a faith based belief. This is a known thing, and is part of the very definition of the word faith.
It is not true that you believe without any evidence whatsoever that you are not being supernaturally tricked into believing a falsehood?

You also claim he showed support
Please cite this claim that you have attributed to me, or admit it is in fact you (as usual) that is dishonest.

...but refuse to show it
Faith-based belief.

...then say this support is magically hidden from me but you can see it.
Please quote me where I have made this claim.
 

Ninjahedge

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2005
4,149
1
91
Most religious law is human based political bullshit.

I always thought that health concerns were the reason behind the restriction of Pork from the diet of the Judaic religion, but I was recently informed that it was more a political choice than even a health concern.

I always am at issue with ANY rule that is "proclaimed" as "holy" and to be followed w/o question if the one declaring it cannot give any other reason besides "God said so".

I may be one of God's creations, but I am not God's slave or God's soldier. The very free will he gave me is enough to question his absolute UNQUESTIONABLE rule, especially when that rule has always come from the mouths of those either not around or long dead.

Until our ego passes enough to forego the anthropomorphic "father figure" (almost) ALL our ruling gods have been over the years (From Zeus to Ra to "God"), I am unwilling to accept "his" portrayal as anything but a pretty picture religious leaders constructed in the popular image that most can believe in without proof or contact from.

Our duplicitous oxymoronic assertions of belief (an omnipotent being that somehow does not simply come out and say "don't do this" directly to those "doing that") is laughable. Unfortunately, time has shown that humans like structure. As campy as The Matrix was when it described the failed attempts at a cerebral paradise being thwarted and mankinds insistence on trouble, strife and other modes of suffering to be a part of the fabric of life, it is right in saying that people LIKE to be led and told what they should do... so long as it agrees with their own perception of what the world is.

God may exist, but it is a pretty safe bet that "he" is nothing like we have laughably tried to represent in our own parablistic manner.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
Most religious law is human based political bullshit.

I always thought that health concerns were the reason behind the restriction of Pork from the diet of the Judaic religion, but I was recently informed that it was more a political choice than even a health concern.

I always am at issue with ANY rule that is "proclaimed" as "holy" and to be followed w/o question if the one declaring it cannot give any other reason besides "God said so".

Most of God's rules (listed in Levitical Law) are explained, but there are a few which God simply says to do it and does not explain why. We wil never really know why, but that has not stopped the great Jewish sages from guessing at it for the last 3500 years. :)

The food rules are one of the unexplained ones, but I was explained it this way:

Food is the only thing you have 100% control over in your life. Provided you have enough food to choose what you want to eat, you have the power to make these choices. You can also choose to not eat and no one can force you to eat (barring very drastic measures). This is evident from VERY early on...ever try to feed a baby who does not want to eat? Not possible. The 1 month old wins every time. :)

So what God did is He created some food laws and said "If you love me, you will follow these laws for no other reason than I said so." We can come up with a myriad of reasons for each type of food law, but in the end it is simply God saying "Cause I said so" (soemething which all parents from the beginning of time have told their children, as an aside).

We are to give up control of the only thing in life which we have 100% control over.

Not an economic reason, not a health reason, though both of these may also be true...but they are coincidental. It is because God wants Jews to stay pure of soul, and doing what God says does that.


I may be one of God's creations, but I am not God's slave or God's soldier. The very free will he gave me is enough to question his absolute UNQUESTIONABLE rule, especially when that rule has always come from the mouths of those either not around or long dead.

Until our ego passes enough to forego the anthropomorphic "father figure" (almost) ALL our ruling gods have been over the years (From Zeus to Ra to "God"), I am unwilling to accept "his" portrayal as anything but a pretty picture religious leaders constructed in the popular image that most can believe in without proof or contact from.

God may exist, but it is a pretty safe bet that "he" is nothing like we have laughably tried to represent in our own parablistic manner.

You are correct, God did give you the free will to be wrong. :) You also have the free will to say 2+2=5. Just saying that simply having the ability to claim something does not automatically mean what you claim must be true. Not an attack, just an observation.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
Beliefs are declarative sentences.

Faith based belief.

Have you found out yet that each time you dismiss something I have said as a faith based belief as your way of avoiding it, I am going to do it back to you? I say this because I doubt you have.

When you stop evading, I will return the favor. Until you do, I will not either. Pretty simple. You started it, simply end it and rational conversation can start. When you dismiss things as faith based beliefs so that you can ignore them and then demand I not do the same thing, it is impossible to hold a rational conversation with you.

I am interested in discussing this with you, but you have to stop being playing games first.
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
126
You realize he will never admit being wrong, right?

He's Phinneas, of course he will never admit. He just trolls and trolls until this account is banned and then he'll create a new one to do it again. This is how this sad pathetic excuse for a human being gets his jollies.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
He's Phinneas, of course he will never admit. He just trolls and trolls until this account is banned and then he'll create a new one to do it again. This is how this sad pathetic excuse for a human being gets his jollies.

ProJo, welcome back with a new Alt. You need to be banned.
 

Cerpin Taxt

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
11,940
542
126
Faith based belief.

Have you found out yet that each time you dismiss something I have said as a faith based belief as your way of avoiding it, I am going to do it back to you? I say this because I doubt you have.
The fact you appear unable to comprehend is that I will not contest your allegations of the faith basis of the a posteriori claims I've made -- indeed, it is the very basis of the point which you are deliberately evading.

When you stop evading, I will return the favor.
That's rich, coming from a tap-dancing troll like you.

Please tell me what I have evaded. When this request goes unanswered, I will add it to the list below.


Until you do, I will not either. Pretty simple. You started it, simply end it and rational conversation can start.
No, I'm sorry, your attempt to distinguish your beliefs from others on the grounds that theirs were "faith-based" was the beginning.

When you dismiss things as faith based beliefs so that you can ignore them and then demand I not do the same thing, it is impossible to hold a rational conversation with you.
Then admit your suggestion that others' beliefs are "faith based" is a meaningless one.

I am interested in discussing this with you, but you have to stop being playing games first.
I'm not playing any games. I made a very specific point, and I've been clear about it. It isn't my problem that you either lack the intelligence or the intellectual honesty to engage it.

Please address the following requests:

A statement of belief requires supporting evidence or else it is a faith based belief. This is a known thing, and is part of the very definition of the word faith.
Is it not true that you believe without any evidence whatsoever that you are not being supernaturally tricked into believing a falsehood?

You also claim he showed support
Please cite this claim that you have attributed to me, or admit it is in fact you (as usual) that is dishonest.

...but refuse to show it
Faith-based belief.

...then say this support is magically hidden from me but you can see it.
Please quote me where I have made this claim.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
If you want to show you are not a troll, then post the supporting evidence he used. You know, the one where when asked for it you glibly replied "faith-based belief" instead of showing the support.

I suspect you will type faith based belief again.
 

Cerpin Taxt

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
11,940
542
126
If you want to show you are not a troll, then post the supporting evidence he used. You know, the one where when asked for it you glibly replied "faith-based belief" instead of showing the support.

I suspect you will type faith based belief again.
You have a laundry list of support for your claims requested of you. Get to work before you expect the same from others.
 

Cerpin Taxt

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
11,940
542
126
It certainly does. You start by claiming things are faith based, then get upset when it is done back to you.
Anyone that can read time stamps can verify independently that in fact you started by claiming a certain belief was "faith based," and then got your panties all in a bunch when your beliefs were characterized similarly.

Troll is too kind a word for you.
Nobody is buying it.