David Frum calls Health Care Reform passage a Waterloo for the Republicans

[Modelworks]

What scares me is that someone who voted for the bill now has NOTHING to lose, they know they hurt their re-election chances and now they can do what they want how they want, they aren't getting elected anyway so why not ?

 

[Modelworks]

And there's news that Obama wants to rush into an amnestly bill for illegals?

That is the next big item. If Obama can win over the illegals then he has plenty more people to vote for him at his re-election. The democrats that already voted for health care have nothing to lose now so it wouldn't surprise me to see them rush through immigration reform too.

 

[glenn1]

+1

Repewbs decided to take the very partisan political strat of just refusing and obstructing, just to make a mess in order to sow anger and frustration at Dems. They very nearly succeeded, but in the end have nothing to show for it.
They could have helped shaped the bill and make it better. Less special deals for asshats like Nelson if one of the GOP manned up and worked in good faith. Perhaps more cost controls could have been added, but no. Saying NO! left a very small group of swing Dems to negotiate with, and they got the biggest say in the final form.

How different could the bill had been had Snowe, Collins, Graham or McCain etc been involved, so the bill wasn't so dependent on Leiberman, Nelson et al?

Instead of just proposing tens of useless amendments, read out loud just to slow things down, they could have put real ideas forward. Nope.

Best of luck trying to brew this issue for 8 mos while the country moves on, gets sold on the benefits, and sees an improving economy.

Obama has all spring, summer and fall to smooth things over with voters.

So your position is that when the Democrats write a bill that's utter shit, it's the fault of the Republicans that it stinks because they didn't stop to pick the peanuts out of the steaming pile of turd?

 

[wirelessenabled]

You people are dilusional! And David Frum is dead flat wrong. This country is boiling over right now at the growth of govt and how the Dems are spending our tax money. The very idea we might need a national sales tax 5 yrs from now when the true cost of this HC entitlement becomes clear is going to set off a revolution.

Boiling over at growth of government? Where have you/they been? GW Bush grew the government at the fastest rate since Reagan. All while lowering taxes and increasing the budget deficit to the highest ever. Bush wasn't spending "tax money" he was spending money borrowed from the Chinese. Public is going to be more angry at spending "tax money" for their own health care than spending it for wars in Iraq and Afghanistan?

If there was going to be a "revolution" why wouldn't it have happened in the last Administration?

 

[Jhhnn]

So your position is that when the Democrats write a bill that's utter shit, it's the fault of the Republicans that it stinks because they didn't stop to pick the peanuts out of the steaming pile of turd?

Oh, please. Repubs chose the battleground, healthcare reform, as a means and a way to "Beat Obama!". They bet the farm, failed, and there's a stigma attached to being Losers! Particularly when you're the one who picked the fight, set out to oppose progress at any price, set out to preserve insurance co. prerogatives that are both wrong and repugnant. They accepted nothing of Dems' proposals, offered placebos and jingoism as alternatives.

Dems aren't like Repubs, who are all currently cut from the same dough with the big money cookie cutter of right wing think tank ideology and RNC funding methods. Dems are more diverse, less ideologically hidebound, with some virtually indistinguishable from repubs. It's the difference between goose-stepping in formation and the burning man festival...

We'll see repubs' true colors as they set out to beat their previous filibuster record, Specter's defection notwithstanding... He's no more a Dem than Lieberman, at this point.

 

[Bitek]

So your position is that when the Democrats write a bill that's utter shit, it's the fault of the Republicans that it stinks because they didn't stop to pick the peanuts out of the steaming pile of turd?

That's so eloquent and beautifully written I will need some time to recover before I respond. :wub:

 

[flavio]

What scares me is that someone who voted for the bill now has NOTHING to lose, they know they hurt their re-election chances and now they can do what they want how they want, they aren't getting elected anyway so why not ?

Actually their more likely to get elected and if they continue to do what's right for America they'll surely be elected.

 

[Descartes]

Here's a full article from Frum today. I hope Republicans listen to him.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/03/...rum.healthcare.gop.strategy/index.html?hpt=T2

Republicans, listen? Anyone who has anything to say about Republicans is obviously an idiot, a terrible American and just doesn't get it.

In all seriousness, if Republicans listened to anything they wouldn't have lost the election, let this bill pass and be where they are now. Despite all of this, they'll still sit there, claiming they speak for the American people while the country goes in another direction.

The sad thing is that it wouldn't take much for Republicans to reclaim their message, but as they go deeper down the rabbit hole they keep presenting Americans with increasingly disgusting creatures that surface to speak for conservatives.

 

[AzureNightmareX1]

the liberals in this thread are scary....

 

[Mursilis]

At this point, I'd like nothing better than for the Repubs to just throw in the towel - quit opposing anything the Dems do and just let them run hog-wild. Opposing them only delays the inevitable financial collapse of the US, but does not prevent it (especially since the hypocritical GOP is the party of fiscal conservatism only when they're out of power anyway). You can't compete with Santa Claus anyway, so why try? Just let the spenders go nuts, let the debt crush the economy, and then, when conditions are finally right for revolution and true reform, reshape the structure of gov't itself to prevent this sort of financial suicide in the future. Enact a balanced budget amendment and similar safeguards to ensure we don't spend ourselves into a hole in the future. It's truly pointless to try running on fiscal responsibility these days - credit card nation wants their benefits now, and they don't want to hear about the bill coming due anytime soon. You simply can't out-Democrat the Democrats.

 

[sandorski]

At this point, I'd like nothing better than for the Repubs to just throw in the towel - quit opposing anything the Dems do and just let them run hog-wild. Opposing them only delays the inevitable financial collapse of the US, but does not prevent it (especially since the hypocritical GOP is the party of fiscal conservatism only when they're out of power anyway). You can't compete with Santa Claus anyway, so why try? Just let the spenders go nuts, let the debt crush the economy, and then, when conditions are finally right for revolution and true reform, reshape the structure of gov't itself to prevent this sort of financial suicide in the future. Enact a balanced budget amendment and similar safeguards to ensure we don't spend ourselves into a hole in the future. It's truly pointless to try running on fiscal responsibility these days - credit card nation wants their benefits now, and they don't want to hear about the bill coming due anytime soon. You simply can't out-Democrat the Democrats.

This is neither Accurate nor is it what motivates the Republicans.

 

[Mursilis]

This is neither Accurate nor is it what motivates the Republicans.

So I guess http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/ doesn't exist in your world?

 

[sandorski]

So I guess http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/ doesn't exist in your world?

Fail

 

[Zebo]

So your position is that when the Democrats write a bill that's utter shit, it's the fault of the Republicans that it stinks because they didn't stop to pick the peanuts out of the steaming pile of turd?

It's not shit if your goal is single payer and destruction of for profit HC industry. I think my "why buy" thread highlights what's really at work here. I didnt relise this poison pill aspect until yesterday - and shit was only given to get the votes needed- course there is a risk and UHC falls completely apart if Republicans reign during it's failure.

 

[Mursilis]

Fail

What's truly sad is that you actually think that's an intelligent response.

 

[sandorski]

What's truly sad is that you actually think that's an intelligent response.

No, what's sad is you actually think the link to the Debt Clock backs up what you said.

 

[werepossum]

So your position is that when the Democrats write a bill that's utter shit, it's the fault of the Republicans that it stinks because they didn't stop to pick the peanuts out of the steaming pile of turd?

LOL Brilliant! The Dems' idea of Republican participation is "Vote for the crap we made in a dark, locked room!"

Frum has a good point though. I have little doubt that Republicans will sweep the House and probably the Senate as well this November - although Obama still has a few hundred billion in walking around money that he can throw in to make things look better in November, and he now has an invigorated and even more fawning press corps, so don't rule him out. But the Dems now have the foothold in health care they've long wanted. Right now it's just forcing people to buy insurance, but that will rapidly change to the federal government buying insurance for them, no matter which party holds Congress. And now they have another scare issue - the Republicans want to steal your health care! Long term this is a huge win for the Dems.

 

[senseamp]

Republicans are overestimating the hunting abilities of this dog. They are telling their base they are going for a full repeal, meaning they are locking themselves into supporting the ability of insurance companies to resume perpetrating its worst practices like rescission and denial of coverage due to preexisting conditions. That will be a tough sell to independents who want to keep at least some of these reforms.

 

[Genx87]

What's truly sad is that you actually think that's an intelligent response.

It is the only thing he has when people call him on his stupidity.

 

[werepossum]

Republicans are overestimating the hunting abilities of this dog. They are telling their base they are going for a full repeal, meaning they are locking themselves into supporting the ability of insurance companies to resume perpetrating its worst practices like rescission and denial of coverage due to preexisting conditions. That will be a tough sell to independents who want to keep at least some of these reforms.

Perhaps, but it's not often that a party gets an opportunity like this one, where two-thirds of the electorate is firmly of one mind and there is considerable emotion as well. Politically that's a good position to be in.

 

[senseamp]

Perhaps, but it's not often that a party gets an opportunity like this one, where two-thirds of the electorate is firmly of one mind and there is considerable emotion as well. Politically that's a good position to be in.

If Election was tomorrow, sure. But Obama and Dems are going to be talking jobs jobs jobs till November, GOP is going to be talking about repealing health care reform, including parts that people like.

 

[werepossum]

If Election was tomorrow, sure. But Obama and Dems are going to be talking jobs jobs jobs till November, GOP is going to be talking about repealing health care reform, including parts that people like.

I guess we'll see if talking about jobs can offset the continued loss of jobs. My guess is that the Dems will be talking about health care and good things are going to be in four years, rather than talking about jobs that are disappearing.

 

[GTaudiophile]

The people who are pissed the most by Obama: the so-called Centrists.

That which got Obama selected in November 2008 will also be his undoing in November 2010.

The Center, for the most part, regrets the decision it made.

 

[GuitarDaddy]

Perhaps, but it's not often that a party gets an opportunity like this one, where two-thirds of the electorate is firmly of one mind and there is considerable emotion as well. Politically that's a good position to be in.

It's amazing how you guys continue to claim a 2/3 majority :biggrin:
After you lose Congress, you lose the white house, you lose the stimulus vote, and now you lose HC

You guys must be the biggest baffons in history, with this large majority that you have all you seem to be able to do is fuckin LOSE over and over again How does that work?

 

[Sclamoz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGi_wGs43GE