Dave Ramsey article on Pocket

[VirtualLarry]

The Man Who Wants to Help You Out of Debt – at Any Cost

Millions turn to financial guru and radio host Dave Ramsey for his ‘tough love’. Many say he saved their lives. Critics say he ignores the structural reasons so many are in debt and poverty.

getpocket.com

I know that there's a few fans out there on here. This article does fairly well to summarize his philosophy, which is basically "bootstraps" and "minimal gov't intervention".

What I learned that I didn't know, that I learned, was that he was is good friends with Elizabeth Warren. (Is Dave from MA?)

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

My fault with Ramsey is overall he isn't trying to educate people financially, but rather just trying to hook them with "habits". But I'm also just a personality type that wants to know how things work, not just what the answer is.

Can't fault him for overall helping people though overall.

 

[Svnla]

Ramsey and Suze Orman = financial advisers for "should have know better" folks...ie..."don't spend more than what you make".

One more thing, I don't like how Ramsey made blanket statements about credit cards as bad. If you can handle credit cards properly, you can get a lot of benefits such as price protection, car rental insurance, etc. or even make money. Yes, make money from credit cards as in cash back/rebate.

 

[ponyo]

I don't like how Dave Ramsey makes money off his followers by selling his workshops, courses, and affiliated businesses. And I hate his promotion of religion on his program. But overall, his good outweigh the bad and many people have benefitted from his message of getting out of debt.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

I don't like how Dave Ramsey makes money off his followers by selling his workshops, courses, and affiliated businesses. And I hate his promotion of religion on his program. But overall, his good outweigh the bad and many people have benefitted from his message of getting out of debt.

He's gotta make money somehow, right? Just telling people blah blah snowball pay off lowest debt first (even though the interest rate is higher lol) will only get you so far.

 

[paperfist]

The Man Who Wants to Help You Out of Debt – at Any Cost

Millions turn to financial guru and radio host Dave Ramsey for his ‘tough love’. Many say he saved their lives. Critics say he ignores the structural reasons so many are in debt and poverty.

getpocket.com

I know that there's a few fans out there on here. This article does fairly well to summarize his philosophy, which is basically "bootstraps" and "minimal gov't intervention".

What I learned that I didn't know, that I learned, was that he was is good friends with Elizabeth Warren. (Is Dave from MA?)

Is it bad that he knows her?

He's gotta make money somehow, right? Just telling people blah blah snowball pay off lowest debt first (even though the interest rate is higher lol) will only get you so far.

Its a psychological thing. You pay off the smaller ones first because they’re easier and give you a sense of accomplishment.

 

[mikeymikec]

People use Pocket? Huh.

 

[pete6032]

People use Pocket? Huh.

I wonder how many more people started using it after Firefox put it on the home page when you open Firefox up.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I wonder how many more people started using it after Firefox put it on the home page when you open Firefox up.

It's a great well-spring of interesting articles brought to my door, that I wouldn't have gone out of my way to look for, mostly because I wouldn't have known about them. Search isn't everything. Crowd-sourcing for the win!

 

[pete6032]

It's a great well-spring of interesting articles brought to my door, that I wouldn't have gone out of my way to look for, mostly because I wouldn't have known about them. Search isn't everything. Crowd-sourcing for the win!

I have to admit, I have opened FF a few times with the intent of navigating to a website right away, only to click on some of the pocket articles that are suggested.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Its a psychological thing. You pay off the smaller ones first because they’re easier and give you a sense of accomplishment.

Yes I get it. It isn't intelligent. It isn't learning. It's simply for people who can't think or learn in life and instead just want to rely on habits.

Again, I personally hate it and feel like people need to learn in life - but if it works for some I simply can't knock it in that regard.

 

[nakedfrog]

I wonder how many more people started using it after Firefox put it on the home page when you open Firefox up.

The first thing I do anytime they make a change like that is disable it
about: blank for life.

 

[Aikouka]

My biggest problem with Ramsey is his "pay off the smallest first" approach. Now, to be clear, I understand why he's suggesting that as it's a mix of attainability and emotional/chemical response of attaining your goal. My issue mostly lies with the latter as -- in my opinion -- people have a habit of being too spendy due to the emotional response of getting the new, shiny thing. In other words, he's using the same mentality that causes them to buy crap they don't need in the first place, which means the people won't get over it, and they may be likely to just fall prey again.

I have to admit, I have opened FF a few times with the intent of navigating to a website right away, only to click on some of the pocket articles that are suggested.

I do that with Google on mobile, which often presents articles to me. I tend to get things on PC hardware, games, etc. Probably helps that Google can easily just peruse through my search history.

 

[paperfist]

Yes I get it. It isn't intelligent. It isn't learning. It's simply for people who can't think or learn in life and instead just want to rely on habits.

Again, I personally hate it and feel like people need to learn in life - but if it works for some I simply can't knock it in that regard.

Yep it's basically common sense, but some people just need a kick in the rear to get started or they just over complicate things in their heads that they need it simplified.

 

[dullard]

My fault with Ramsey is overall he isn't trying to educate people financially, but rather just trying to hook them with "habits".

I am similar with you as in wanting to know the details, but then again, we aren't the type of people that need Ramsey's advice. Often, the people who really need his advice are just the type of people that tend to do best with simple habits based on belief not on facts nor on what is best mathematically.

I work best on being the most optimum possible: what will make my life the happiest or what will make my wallet the richest, etc. Ramsey focusses on being non-optimal: he instead focusses on getting a single win. Then hopefully that will encourage you to do better next time.

What I don't like about Ramsey is his insistence on keeping the poor people poor: discouraging them from education for example. His method doesn't allow for good debt. Debt on a car to get to work is good debt. Debt on a car to have bling is bad debt. Debt on a cheap college to get a great salary is good debt; debt on an expensive private school in underwater basket weaving is bad debt. Ramsey's method can't distinguish the two. His whole teaching is basically about keeping him rich and others just barely treading water enough not to tax him more.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

What I don't like about Ramsey is his insistence on keeping the poor people poor: discouraging them from education for example. His method doesn't allow for good debt. Debt on a car to get to work is good debt. Debt on a car to have bling is bad debt. Debt on a cheap college to get a great salary is good debt; debt on an expensive private school in underwater basket weaving is bad debt. Ramsey's method can't distinguish the two. His whole teaching is basically about keeping him rich and others just barely treading water enough not to tax him more.

Education isn't for everyone though - and likely pretty one-sided for his general audience. And I do think that the majority of Americans live WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY above their means. What does the average family spend on going out to eat and bar drinking? It's at absurd levels. I got a pretty fat chunk of change in my pockets these days to the point of paying cash easily for an expensive vehicle and i STILL overwhelmingly buy used-japanese cars, and I don't find any need to buy a new one after 5 years. I will still drive it until the wheels fall off. The average person? They can't even handle that. I've watched some of his videos - and he's pretty reasonable. People will up and say they have $40k in debt for a stupid new vehicle they bought, his response to that is always consistent: Sell it immediately and buy a $3-5k beater.

Another fault I have with a lot of people is their resistance to just picking up and going somewhere. You're stuck in somewhere with a crappy job market - do you expect one to move to you? I'm not saying moving is easy, but if you're in a small town and the only job you can get is retail work at the town Walmart, consider some self-reflection. Things around you aren't magically going to change, so what does that leave you with as far as options?

 

[dullard]

Education isn't for everyone though - and likely pretty one-sided for his general audience. And I do think that the majority of Americans live WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY above their means. What does the average family spend on going out to eat and bar drinking? It's at absurd levels. I got a pretty fat chunk of change in my pockets these days to the point of paying cash easily for an expensive vehicle and i STILL overwhelmingly buy used-japanese cars, and I don't find any need to buy a new one after 5 years. I will still drive it until the wheels fall off. The average person? They can't even handle that. I've watched some of his videos - and he's pretty reasonable. People will up and say they have $40k in debt for a stupid new vehicle they bought, his response to that is always consistent: Sell it immediately and buy a $3-5k beater.

Another fault I have with a lot of people is their resistance to just picking up and going somewhere. You're stuck in somewhere with a crappy job market - do you expect one to move to you? I'm not saying moving is easy, but if you're in a small town and the only job you can get is retail work at the town Walmart, consider some self-reflection. Things around you aren't magically going to change, so what does that leave you with as far as options?

We pay only a pittance for eating out. Eating is far too cheap. Look at our waistlines for evidence. Most of history is filled with lean times because food was expensive. Eating out and going to the bar is almost nothing in comparison to that.

You are right about used beaters when you are in debt. I drive cars into the ground, repair them, then drive them into the ground again.

Moving is a big problem. People used to move for all kinds of reasons, but especially for economic reasons. Now with all the technology to travel or keep in touch from miles away: we don't move away. We move less than we have ever moved in history. That needs to change. But a big part of why we don't move is that moving is expensive. You might not be able to pay a realtor to sell, you might be underwater on your mortgage, you might not be able to afford movers, you might not be able to afford a van to move yourself. But there are bigger expenses, most cannot afford care for children or care for elderly when they live far apart. It is just not possible to move in many situations. So you move, and now have a $20/hour job that pays a bit more than Walmart but now you need to pay $14.66/hour for daycare and you ended up losing. That is if you are lucky, the average child care is about $20/hour.

 

[Tweak155]

Ramsey has to go with an approach that when he casts the net, he catches the most people for his own benefit. Keeping it simple and easy to follow will never be the optimal solution for everyone it helps (although by chance it may be for some), people's finances are too nuanced for a general guidance like that.

He's just like any source of information, try to take it in and take from it what benefits you. In some cases, it may be nothing - but for some people it's just what they needed.

 

[nakedfrog]

I saw the stat going around social media that 72% of Americans live within 20 miles of where they grew up, and it kind of surprised me so I had to track down the source: https://www.pewforum.org/2018/11/20/where-americans-find-meaning-in-life/

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Moving is a big problem. People used to move for all kinds of reasons, but especially for economic reasons. Now with all the technology to travel or keep in touch from miles away: we don't move away. We move less than we have ever moved in history. That needs to change. But a big part of why we don't move is that moving is expensive. You might not be able to pay a realtor to sell, you might be underwater on your mortgage, you might not be able to afford movers, you might not be able to afford a van to move yourself. But there are bigger expenses, most cannot afford care for children or care for elderly when they live far apart. It is just not possible to move in many situations. So you move, and now have a $20/hour job that pays a bit more than Walmart but now you need to pay $14.66/hour for daycare and you ended up losing. That is if you are lucky, the average child care is about $20/hour.

This goes back to the point of "You have way too much shit"

If it's expensive to move, it's because your house is filled to the brim with way too much shit that you think is worth something, but it absolutely isn't and is more of a net-negative on your life because you let it be used as reasons to not move.

Rent a UHaul, put in your bed, dresser, cooking items, and a couch/TV and you're good to go. This isn't that complicated.


What people really want to do is to keep having excuses to prevent actions. It allows you to stay in the comfort zone. Anything outside of the comfort zone is deemed a risk - and every risk is too large to dare go for.

 

[snoopy7548]

My collection of sex dolls would fill up like 20 U-Hauls.

 

[Svnla]

I saw the stat going around social media that 72% of Americans live within 20 miles of where they grew up, and it kind of surprised me so I had to track down the source: https://www.pewforum.org/2018/11/20/where-americans-find-meaning-in-life/

A few other facts: about 64% Americans have never been outside the US, about 42% have current valid passports, about 20% can speak two or more languages decently.

 

[Mai72]

Ramsey and Suze Orman = financial advisers for "should have know better" folks...ie..."don't spend more than what you make".

One more thing, I don't like how Ramsey made blanket statements about credit cards as bad. If you can handle credit cards properly, you can get a lot of benefits such as price protection, car rental insurance, etc. or even make money. Yes, make money from credit cards as in cash back/rebate.

Well his stance on credit cards is hard because most people don't use them the correct way. Most Americans are in some form of credit card debt. If you can use them the correct way, then you can get a lot of benefits like airplane miles. That's if you pay off your balance every month. Very few people do this.

 

[brianmanahan]

I saw the stat going around social media that 72% of Americans live within 20 miles of where they grew up, and it kind of surprised me so I had to track down the source: https://www.pewforum.org/2018/11/20/where-americans-find-meaning-in-life/

only 1 or 2 people in my family have moved more than 50 miles away in 150 years

can't marry anybody cuz i'm related to everybody

 

[Zorba]

My fault with Ramsey is overall he isn't trying to educate people financially, but rather just trying to hook them with "habits". But I'm also just a personality type that wants to know how things work, not just what the answer is.

Can't fault him for overall helping people though overall.

Dave is for people that don't understand money and don't want to. I think he is excellent for that mentality. There are many other people that are much better for someone that really wants to understand money, though.

I think he honestly helps many many people, though (I know quite a few), if for no other reason he tells them to sell stuff, stop buying stupid stuff, and live within their means. He gets through to them the security of being debt free is more valuable than flashy things.

My biggest issue is how he pushes many services that he gets kick backs on, which is one if the reasons he doesn't want to teach people more of the details of investing, IMHO.