Dang you AMD, what processor to get??????

[coolred]

I don't know, I just don't see the point. If I am gonna overclock it to more power then I need, then why not just get the A64 so at least there is an upgrade path available. Plus with cool and quiet it would run nice and cool at idle. Where did you find the 35watt models? Newegg only seems to have the 45watt models, except for the 2200+ I think.

I am just trying to think cost, everyone says go AXP for its cheapness, but if it requires a new motherboard either now or downt he road the next time I upgrade, then it loses its cheapness, especially when the A64 2600+ comes out. That may be what i go with.

 

[Avalon]

If you do a search on newegg for "2400+ mobile", you'll find it. It's not listed in its correct category. The reason why I suggested the mobile is because, since it is a mobile, you can set it to whatever you'd like. You can have it run at 1.5ghz if you so wanted. It would probably max load in the low 30s. After a couple years, if you found you needed a bit more power, you just overclock it some. If you buy any A64 right now, you are going to be even more overkill in the speed department than with a mobile barton. Plus, I think you said you were going to go socket 754, since 939 was in limited quantity/too expensive right now. You're not going to have much of an upgrade path there either. AMD is only releasing one more "high end" processor for socket 754, which is the 3700+ that runs at 2.4ghz (correct me if I'm wrong). Assuming you were to buy an A64 2800+ right now ($185 or so), you're going to need a socket 754 board ($100). Then, in a few years, if you wanted to upgrade within that platform, you'd have the option at best to buy a 3700+, which operates at 600mhz more I think. Then that's it. Or, you can just buy a mobile barton now ($80 give or take a bit, depending on what model) and run it at a very very low speed so it runs about as warm as an ice cube. When you feel you need to upgrade, it will have plenty of room past stock (typically 500-600mhz legroom to give). Overclocking it at that time would be almost equivalent in the other scenario where you got an A64 setup instead and upgraded to a 600mhz faster CPU (3700+). You may not want to overclock to juice your system over for another year or two, but this is just the more efficient way I see of doing it. However, this way only seems best to me because I'm an overclocker. To each his own. Just something to think about.

 

[coolred]

Okay i found it on newegg, thanks.

I understand I can run a mobile at whatever speed I want, even lower then stock. But all these people are telling me not to go A64 since I don't need that much power. Well then whats the point of udnerclocking a mobile. Its the same principle(sp?).


I have no problems overclocking under normal circumstances, but I have to be absolutely sure this thing is rock solid stable.

While you are correct AMD will likely cut A64 support at 3700+ on socket 754, they then plan to use it as a value line for the paris core, which is essentially an AXP ported to the K8 architecture but lacking 64 bit support. SO I will have an upgrade path, just not a high range one. Plus from what iunderstand AMD needs a new socket for DDR2, so socket 939 may not last as long as people think. I mean sure it will likely live on long after DDR2 standardizes, but nto as long as people thought.

So just to correct your math with this new info.

If I get a 2800+ at 185.00 and a socket 754 board for 150.00, then a while later need an upgrade of the value line for say 80 bucks. Total cost is 415.00

If I get a mobile barton 80 I still need a new motherboard 150.00, then later if I need an upgrade thats another 80 and another 150.00 total being 460.00. Thats just what doesn't make sense to me.

Please don't take me as being rude or trying to say your wrong. Your not, its your opinion, it can't be wrong. I am just trying to figure out what makes the most sense inthe long haul. And according to my numbers A64 does. If someone can give me numbers to the contrary I will definately evaluate them. As i would love to spend less money, thats always good.

Plus if I get the 2600+ whenever it surfaces, that may save me an extra 35 bucks or so. I don't know. Maybe if the nForce 2 400Gb boards arrive, then maybe that will tempt me to go with the AXP, but who knows when they will be here.

 

[Avalon]

No, you're definitely not being rude. I apologize if I made any of this uncomfortable for you. Just trying to help out. I completely forgot about the Paris chips, so you're right. There will be a value upgrade path for socket 754 for you, which will actually be perfect for your system since it doesn't need a power house
About the only thing I can tell you is that my Epox board runs rock solid and was $70, when you were figuring you'd be getting a $150 socket A motherboard. You were also aiming a bit high for socket 754 as well by about $25. In the end, with these cuts in mind, the A64 and mobile pick are virtually equal. If the 2600+ comes out soon, that would actually be a very nice deal for you. Socket 754 prices should be coming down a bit over time soon.

 

[charloscarlies]

If I get a mobile barton 80 I still need a new motherboard 150.00, then later if I need an upgrade thats another 80 and another 150.00 total being 460.00. Thats just what doesn't make sense to me.

$150 for a new board? Check out newegg. I'm building and HTPC as well, and I went with a Mobile 2400 and a Shuttle AN-35N. The processor was $77 and the board was right around $50 and it's rock solid. You can't even come close in price w/ a similar A64 setup.

 

[Nebor]

The A64 w/ Cool and Quiet would be the obvious choice for a quiet HTPC.

 

[coolred]

No your not making me uncomfortable. I just don't want people to think i am rude, when they come in here and give there opinion, and then I go and try to contradict it. I just don't want everybody to think that I don't care what they say. I do, and I listen an figure it into my plan and decide if it works for me.

As for motherboards. If I go A64 I am pretty dang sure(about 99 percent) that I will be getting the MSI K8N Neo Platinum, which zipzoomfly says is 150.00. If I go with AXP, I wouldn't mind a 400Gb board, which will likely be a bit more. But even if I go with one of the currently available models, I would prefer a decent feature set. Doesn't need to have everything, just soem stuff. And one of th emain reasons it seems to go with AXP is soundstorm, or at the very least SPDIF out, which the shuttle AN-35N does not seem to have.So therfore while that may be a cheap route, if it will not do what i need, then theres no point.

And at least according to newegg, or at least my search(I searched socket a with keywords MCP-T) all the boards in that list are at least 90.00. But I will admit, that only 2 boards in the list come in at around 150.00, and while all the stuff they come with is nice, its probably overkill. If I go AXP, I will like get the Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe, which will run about 100.00, and like I said, I wouldn't mind seeing soem fo the 400Gb boards which may run closer to 150.00, who knows.


But I kinda agree with Nebor, I just think cool and quiet would be one of the best things for an HTPC. Heck any computer really.

 

[coolred]

Well lets say I go with the A64, what type and speed of ram should I get? 512Mb should be enough right or do I need closer to a gig? What speed, 3200? What brand?

 

[coolred]

ANy idea when we will see the A64 2600+..... Months, weeks?

 

[coolred]

It just dawned on me that I am a retard, well maybe thats a little harsh, but I don't think I was thinking as far ahead as I though I was.

I was hoping that by going socket 754 that I would have an upgrade path in 2-3 years, it may not be 64bit, btu I doubt I need that for an HTPC. But will they actually still be using socket 754 in 2-3 years?????

I mean maybe AMD will stick with it for its value chips, but when they said themselves that for each new memory technology(DDR2, DDR3) they will require new sockets, whats to keep them from making socket 939 the value line socket in 2 years.

 

[SickBeast]

I thought you were going with Socket 462? What happened?

 

[coolred]

Where did you get that impression?

I am considering a lot of options, but had thus far been leaning towards socket 754.

 

[SickBeast]

Because of your new poll; it doesn't even consider the A64 CPUs.

There shouldn't even be a discussion in this matter. You should be getting an Athlon XP Mobile paired up with a good nForce2 motherboard. The nForce2 is the platform of choice for HTPC because it has SoundStorm which encodes all of the PC's audio to Dolby Digital, passing out a pure digital stream to your receiver. The nForce2 is the only hardware solution that will do this AFAIK.

On top of that, you will be getting a very affordable platform, and the XP mobiles overclock very nicely. Mine runs at 2500mhz at 1.80v; the speed is phenominal, especially so considering I paid under $100 for the CPU.

 

[coolred]

There shoudl be 2 polls at the top, the original one and the XP one. I edited my first post, the first line says to only vote int he second if you voted AXP in the first. I just wanted to know, if I went AXP, what type to get.

There shouldn't even be a discussion in this matter. You should be getting an Athlon XP Mobile paired up with a good nForce2 motherboard. The nForce2 is the platform of choice for HTPC because it has SoundStorm which encodes all of the PC's audio to Dolby Digital, passing out a pure digital stream to your receiver. The nForce2 is the only hardware solution that will do this AFAIK.

As far as this goes, I have been researching soundstorm for some time now, if I feel it helps me, then it would be a big plus for the AXP since its the only CPU that has that option. SO if you can explain to me in some detail how soundstorm benefits me in an HTPC/PVR rig, I woudl greatly appreciate it.

 

[SickBeast]

Well, I don't know what to tell you aside from what I just said and the stuff that I know you have read from the thread over in the General Hardware forum.

From my understanding, SoundStorm would do this for you:

Say you're watching "The Simpsons" on your HTPC. That show is recorded in Dolby Surround. So, the SoundStorm would then decode the Dolby Surround feed, then re-encode that signal into Dolby Digital, putting each channel on the stream where it belongs. Voice would stay on the centre channel, and the rear signals would stay on the rears and all that.

Then you would be getting this on a pure digital connection to your receiver. For a HTPC, isn't sound quality one of, if not THE main issue at hand? In this scenario, you will be getting amazing sound for FREE. Add to this that the Athlon XP Mobiles are the best value on the market right now and you have a winner. You're disillusioned if you think Socket-754 will be much more upgradeable either. They're both dead platforms. You're comparing one dead platform to another. One is on life support, the other has had the plug pulled. There's not much difference there IMO.

Also, you could get one of those SFF Shuttle cases. Those things are sexy. Do they even make them for the A64?

 

[coolred]

Woah wait a minute, the simpsons are broadcast in dolby digital???? I didn't know that, but what you said made absolute sense. Why didn't someone word it liek that before, heck mayeb they did, btu I must have missed it. What I assumed you guys were saying is that soundstorm would take a plain stereo TV show and somehow magically make it into a surround sound show, and I knew that wasn't really possible. I never though of actually recording dolby digital shows and then actually have them broadcast back in DD.

I had never really paid attention to what shows were broadcast in DD since I don't have any way to output the DD signal to my reciver from my TV. But heck if that is indeed what soundstorm does, that I can see its advantage. Thank you for that, I will continue my reading on it, to backup what you say.

AXP is essentially dead as you say, but can still be used. Socket 754 is rumored at least to have much life left at least as a value socket. But actually I just found a huge flaw in all my thinking and that flaw makes an AXP much more viable a solution.

My thinking was pay an extra 150.00 or so now for socket 754 or socket 940, then when it comes time to upgrade, if I had gone AXP I woudl need a new board and chip, say they run 300.00 total, that means I save 150.00 going with the A64 or opteron now. But stupid me completely forgot, obviously at upgrade time, the A64 or opteron rig would need an upgrade too, sure I could probablly get by with the same board, but I would need a new CPU at say 150.00 that makes it cost just the same as going AXP now, and since I would prefer cheaper now, that makes AXP look good, and now may be the way I go, especially with the soundstorm issue you made me see th light on.

I had considered a shuttle, but I am just not sure how viable they are, as an HTPC maybe, but as a multi tuner PVR, I am not sure they have enough expansion room, although I could always go with hauppauge USB TV capture cards, but they cost a bit more.

And yes shuttle does make an A64 system, I don't remember the exact model number but its something like SN85G4.


Once again thanks. You may have helped me finally make up my mind.

 

[SickBeast]

No problem. I don't think the shows are broadcast in Dolby Digital though; it's Dolby Surround. TV is carried on a 2-channel signal, therefore Dolby Digital 5.1 is not possible (you're confusing Dolby Surround with Dolby Digital). What I said still applies though; you will be getting 5.1 channel audio through your SoundStorm.

 

[coolred]

Ahh crap, so what the heck is the differance between dolby surround and dolby digital?

 

[SickBeast]

One is digital, the other is not. Think of dolby digital as an audio CD with 5 discreet audio channels. Dolby Surround is an analogue 2-channel signal with 5 channels compressed and encoded into it. The quality is not as good, but it has 5 channels nonetheless. It's the best you can get with a 2-channel analogue signal unfortunately.

 

[coolred]

Well what exactly will be sent to the surrounds. I don't really care if my vocals come from a center channel or just fromt he front surrounds. So basically the onyl advantage I would see to this is if it sent some sort of surround soudn like effects to the rear surrounds, and I just don't see what that would be in a show like the simpsons, or star trek.

 

[SickBeast]

Yes, the rear signals from the Dolby Surround will be put on the rear channels of the Dolby Digital feed, etc etc. You will get the correct audio feed on each channel, of course.

 

[coolred]

Well, while I am not dead set, I have pretty much picked components, they could change, but at least I have some numbers. The A64 system would run me about 106.00 more then an AXP system, not too much more.