Dang you AMD, what processor to get??????

coolred

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 2001
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EDIT:new poll question added, only answer it, if you vote for AXP.



MAn all these new sockets, and processors are driving me crazy, as well as many others from what i see. I want to build a rig mainly for a multi tuner PVR box, but it will be in my entertainment center and thus will likely double as an HTPC and media center server. I am seriously considering the Antec overture case, but am still thinking. One reason ia m leaning towards A64 is the MSI K8N Neo Platinum board layout would fit perfectly in with this case.

Anyways. I currently have a ECS K7S5A with a 2100+, 512MB Crucial 2100 and a AIW Radeon 8500DV. This rig is used to browse the web, word processing and soem light gaming(mainly RTS's)nothing to demanding.

The new rig as I said will be a PVR/HTPC/media server again nothing too processor intensive. Well maybe some of it will be. I am still consdiering what parts to put where and woudl be fine using soem of the older parts in the new rig and the new parts in the old rig.

So the XP's are looking nice for thier cheaper price. I woudl likely get a mobile and either overclock it in my main rig or more likely underclock it(for low temps)in my PVR box. But as well all no there is only slim hope that socket A will see any more speed increases.

Socket 754 motherboards are pretty close in price to the Xp boards, and the processors are only like 85-125 or so more then the mobile XP's(at least the speeds I am looking at) so they are not that huge a price increase and they offer a performance bump over the non overclocked mobiles. Plus I really like that MSI board. But all that power will likely be wasted in the PVR box, since it won't be using much of the processor. And we all know this will only have a few more A64's made for it before it goes to the value chips. This may not be totally bad, since then I can continue to upgrade this machine with the value processors and the main rig with the mid range processors.

Socket 939 I am not really considering since I probablly don't even need the socket 754's power. Plus many say performance will be negligable(SP?) over the socket 754's, but who knows. It will likely start off expensive and by the time all the kinks are worked out, DDR2, PCI-E, and BTX will all be either taking hold or upon us, so that means another upgrade. I will definately be waiting till these come out, to see what they do to the prices of the other 2 sockets.

SO heres the cliffs notes for the lazy.

I could go 462 for the value, but lose upgradability
I could go 754 since its not that much more expensive and while may not be fully upgradable, it will still offer some sort of upgrade path over socket 462. But I also think this may be more power then i could currently use, maybe I am wrong though. Some have told me this would make more sense going in my main rig and the main rig parts into the PVR machine. But I doubt I will be able to fully utilize the A64's full potential even while gaming with the games I play.
And again, I mentioned socket 939, since a lot of people say to go with it for the performance jump and the upgradability of it. But I have heard others say the performance jump will be slight and with those new techs coming out, we may need to change boards/procs again within a year or 2.

So I am juggling between A64 on socket 754 and AXP on socket 462.
 

Jeff7181

Lifer
Aug 21, 2002
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Wow... that's a long post...

After quickly skimming... if you're upgrading to a new computer, and demoting your old one to PVR duties, go with an Athlon-64. If you're keeping your current computer and building a new one for PVR duties, go with a Mobile Athlon XP and find a motherboard that supports VERY low voltages. I would assume you could run the processor at like 1 Ghz on 1.3 or 1.4 volts pretty easily and that might be low enough to passively cool it.
 

StrangerGuy

Diamond Member
May 9, 2004
8,443
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Originally posted by: TGHI
Yeeehaw....celeron!

Yeah get those super speedy ones, like 2.8GHz! That is going to faster than the 2.4GHz Barton!

:D

Seriously, I will suggest the XP-m 2500+ and overclock the hell out of it to 2.4GHz range. Should be faster than the A64 3200+ and way cheaper. the XP-m also enjoy a wide selection of excellent overclocking boards too.

EDIT: Oops...Didn't saw "PVR/HTPC/media server again nothing too processor intensive."
 

coolred

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 2001
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I don't know about overclocking the mobile XP. I know I said I could do that, but I don't really need the extra speed. If I was upgrading soley because I needed a performance boost, then i suppose that would work. But I am just building another rig. I just think that if I am gonna spend the money on extra performance that i don't really need, then i should go socket 754, so at least then I will have an upgrade path.


Which processor would run cooler stock, a mobile XP at say 2400+-2500+ or an A64 at 2800+-3000+? Cause if the A64 runs cooler stock, then i may as well get one of those rather then getting the XP and underclocking it. Oh man I just don't know.
 

myocardia

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2003
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Well, even running at stock speed, the A64 runs slightly warmer than a mobile Barton running at it's rated speed, BUT, the A64 is the only desktop processor on the market that has what AMD calls "Cool & Quiet". If the processor doesn't need it's full rated speed, then it automatically underclocks itself, and the fan slows down considerably (well, the retail fan does, anyway). Of course, with a mobile Barton running at it's stock speed, any Socket A fan will keep it very cool, including the ones that are quieter than the average power supply fan, so cooling shouldn't really be an issue for you. Besides, even the slowest mobile Barton, the XP-M 2400, running at 1.8ghz is still WAY more processor than you need for an HTPC. I think you should use the system you have now as your HTPC, and upgrade your current rig.

edit: Oops, I forgot that some people here aren't intelligent enough to not take EVERYTHING literally! Any socket A heatsink and fan that are rated for at least the speed your processor is running at is what I should have said...
 

Jeff7181

Lifer
Aug 21, 2002
18,368
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Originally posted by: coolred
I don't know about overclocking the mobile XP. I know I said I could do that, but I don't really need the extra speed. If I was upgrading soley because I needed a performance boost, then i suppose that would work. But I am just building another rig. I just think that if I am gonna spend the money on extra performance that i don't really need, then i should go socket 754, so at least then I will have an upgrade path.


Which processor would run cooler stock, a mobile XP at say 2400+-2500+ or an A64 at 2800+-3000+? Cause if the A64 runs cooler stock, then i may as well get one of those rather then getting the XP and underclocking it. Oh man I just don't know.

I believe the A64 would. A642800+ = 1.8 Ghz... AthlonXP2500 = 1.833 Ghz. Only a 33 Mhz difference... but the A64 runs on less voltage, is manufactured using SOI which reduces heat from current leakage, and has a larger core which means more area to dissipate heat through. All of those together make for a cooler running processor. I've seen people saying their A643200+ runs 38C under 100% load, and about 34C idle.
 

myocardia

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2003
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Yeah, Jeff may very well be right about which one runs cooler, but it would be a very close race as to which runs cooler. You shouldn't really have any problems keeping either cool, at their stock speeds. For instance, here's a heatsink that's $10.99, that would allow you to overclock a mobile considerably, so imagine how cool it will keep it at stock speed: link. Oh, and it puts out 25dba of noise (you'd have to have your head inside the case, with no other fans running, to hear it).
 

jagec

Lifer
Apr 30, 2004
24,442
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Since you'll be using it for "nothing too processor intensive", by all means go for the Athlon XP. No need to spend extra $$$ for the Athlon64 if you'll never take advantage of it.

and NEVER get a celeron.
 

coolred

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 2001
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First of all people, the celeron thing was a joke. Secondly I would not likely go intel when AMD's do just as good and are cheaper. But if I did go Intel, it would not be a celeron.

I just don't know, maybe I should have added another option to the poll. You guys have said that I shouldn't have to worry about noisy cooling for either of the 2 CPU's I am considering. You also say that for what I need it to do the XP is plenty powerful enough. Which i kinda new that already, but if thats powerful enough, then why should I just get a duron or somethign really cheap. Then I sit here and wonder if I couldn't get by with this duron 650 I have sitting here unused. But that is pushing it pretty close to the reuirments for sage use.


How long would you guess before I would need a new motherboard and processor in the PVR? I mean it obviously isn't running demanding apps liek a normal computer, so will it be good enough for 2-3 years or so. Or will new software start to overpower it within a year?
 

coolred

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 2001
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I know,

Okay hers some more info. I am not a rich guy, I don't have the cash to always buy the latest and greatest. With my one computer, it normall gets a semi full upgrade every 2-3 years with a possible single part upgrade(CPU, memory, video card, etc..)coming every year or so. Now with 2 computers I will have the same amount of money, but 2 computers to upgrade. So as long as the HTPC/PVR will accomplish its tasks on an AXP or even a duron for at least 2-3 years without needing more then 1 part upgrade, then I can go that route. And upgrade my other rig when all the new stuff takes hold in about 1.5 years.
 

coolred

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 2001
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I should also note that if I use the mobile XP, I would not likely overclock it in the HTPC machine, due to heat and stability issues, both of which i don't want. ANd if I put the mobile in my main rig what motherboard shoudl I put it on. My ECS I don't think even supports overclocking, and I woudl think if i bought a new motherboard with say an Nforce2, wouldn't that go better in the HTPC, or no?
 

coolred

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 2001
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I don't know, I just don't want to have to constatnly upgrade 2 rigs. I would prefer to get this one built and not have to worry about it underpwerfroming for at least 2-3 years.
 

ericgl

Member
Jan 18, 2004
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For PVR duties, spend your money on a WInTV PVR 250 and lots of hard drive space. If you live near a Frys, pick up a XP2600+ and ECS N2U400-A combos for $80 and add a Zalman 7000Al/Cu for $35 and you'll be good to go for several years.
 

coolred

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 2001
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Yeah I will be using multiple PVR 250MCE's. Can someone remind me what the GB rate fo MPEG 2 is????
I am consdiering getting that 250GB Maxtor on sale at compusa right now for like 130.00 after a 70 dollar instant rebate, but they also have 120GB Seagates for 60.00 bucks after a 20.00IR and 50.00 MIR. I knwo the seagates are quieter, but then I have to deal with a rebate. Or even 2, fi i get 2, not sure if you can.
 

ericgl

Member
Jan 18, 2004
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I bought one of the Maxtors yesterday to go along with one I bought earlier. I wouldn't worry about bandwidth unless your serving several clients watching different movies concurrently. IMHO rebates suck.
 

coolred

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 2001
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No I didn't mean bandwidth, I mean what rate does it eat up the GB's on a hard drive. I was thinking it was 3GB/hour, but not sure.
 

charlie21

Senior member
Oct 10, 1999
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Since you're using the Hauppage PVR 250's, then your processor speed isn't very important, as the card has HW MPEG2 encoding.

Just as a side note, video/audio encoding is one area that P4 based Intel chips excel at. An OC'ed Celeron wouldn't be a bad choice.
 

coolred

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 2001
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Yeah I know about the hardware encoding not using the CPU. I am not too sure how I feel about overlcockingt he procesor in this sytem. I'm mean sure you can just do it enough to keep it stable, but this machien will be running 24/7 for months or more on end and it needs to be very stable. If it crashs while we are gone and misses recordings them the WAF will drop.

I just don't know, I mean it makes sense to use a slower processor like an XP or whatever, but I am just worried about the future and when I will be able to upgrade each machine. My main rig is out of date by many people standards, but I think it will manage for me for another year or so. Hopefully by then I will be able to put all the new stuff into it. PCI-E, BTX, DDR2 or even 3, whatever socket is currenlty in use.

I suppose as long as I can be sure that an Athlon XP either mobile or not, or a duron or a celeron or whatever will keep this machine ticking away at recording shows for at least 2-3 years then I am fine with that. I am pretty sure the socket 754 would do that, an XP I am nto so sure, but everyone else seems to be, so I guess I shoudl listen to that.

The way i see it though, the mobile XP woudl likely serve me better in my main rig, since the 2100+ is probablly enough for the PVR tasks. But in order to put the 2100+ in the PVR rig, I woudl have to get another motherboard with soundstorm or at least SPDIF out. But then I woudl feel as though i was gimping the mobile XP if I put it in my main rig of a cheap crappy, non overclocking friendly ECS K7S5A, so then I would likely need another motherboard, which takes away the cost advantage of the AXP's. ANy suggestions,opinions?
 

AnnoyedGrunt

Senior member
Jan 31, 2004
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I didn't vote, but here's my take:

Go with SCKT 754 A64 2800+

This is about the least expensive A64 you can get ($173 @ newegg) but will get you into a 64bit compatible chip and MoBo. I've seen that AMD roadmap that shows a 754 3700+ coming eventually, so you'll definitely have some room to upgrade later.

The normal XP's are not as fast as the A64's, and while much less expensive, don't have the same room for growth that the A46's will.

Anyhow, I think that would be a relatively inexpensive way to get a fast computer now that you could also keep fast a couple years from now.

-D'oh!
 

coolred

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 2001
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Thats what i was thinking, maybe even a 2600+ A64 is we do see it. The only thing is that with an HTPC I am not really looking for speed, I just want it to have enough power that it will run SageTV3 or 4 or whatever other cool HTPC/PVR software comes out int he next couple years.

Most people do say that if I go A64, I should put it in my main rig,and my main rigs stuff in the HTPC/PVR. But that leaves me with a rig that may not do what I need in a couple years. Plus i think it would go better in the HTPC rig. And I don't really need the extra power right now even in my main rig, at least I don't think so. Plus as I have said before moving my main rigs parts to the HTPC would likely require a new motherboard, unless I move my sound card with it.
 

InlineFive

Diamond Member
Sep 20, 2003
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I also say you should get a Socket-754 2800+. Cheap and has decent performance compared to the bigger bruisers.
 

Avalon

Diamond Member
Jul 16, 2001
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Just get a mobile 2400+ barton (perferably 35w if you can). Run it at 200x10. More power than you will need, but with a semi decent copper based HSF, you're looking at max load temps in the 30s. Your chip will last for years and years running like this. It will probably perform up to par for at least a few years for your purposes as well. I can confirm the temps with personal results on my 35w barton running 200x10 with 1.4v. It's max load was 39C, and it was idling around 34C. You can probably squeeze by getting a similar processor and HSF for $100. Just an option to think about.