Damn you adobe!!!~

[Ns1]

So after filling out many irs forms (in adobe reader), I get the brilliant idea that "Hey, this technology would be great for my uncle's business"

The process, ideally, would be 1. I create form 2. I send it to people 3. They fill it out, save it, and mail it back to me.

So I go and buy Adobe Acrobat Standard, convert his application into a form, and try distributing it.

He tries to open it (Adobe reader). FAIL, cannot save any form data. OK WTF MATE.

From the adobe standard page

Enable others to fill in and save forms
Enable anyone using free Adobe® Reader® software (version 8 or later) to fill in and save PDF forms locally*. No more printing and faxing.

* For ad hoc form distribution and data collection for up to 500 people.

So I spend an hour scouring teh interwebs. MOTHER FUCKERS. Users using adobe acrobat reader CANNOT SAVE FORM INFORMATION ONTO THEIR LOCAL HARD DRIVE. Pieces of fucking shit, all they can do is fill out the form and submit the form data, they CANNOT save any information they fill out.

41 page application? Fill it all out in 1 shot or too bad, you can't save (unless they by some grace of god have a paid version of adobe).

So, what is the solution? Adobe wants you to buy something called "Adobe LiveCycle Reader Extensions". What the fuck is LiveCycle? What the fuck is this reader extension bullshit? 30 minutes of reading and I still have no clue. Do I need a server for LiveCycle? How many peeps can I send this shit too? More importantly, HOW MUCH DOES THIS LICENSING COST?!?!??

I have an easier time finding the contact information for scammers on the mother fucking interwebs. I still don't know how much this fucking shit costs (from Adobe), but from what I gather, sounds expensive!

Alternatively, there is 1 company that grants the PDF's the proper rights to give you this functionality. How much does it cost?

300 dollars a quarter, per form

Alternatively, they have accounts with unlimited functionality for 2500/year (maybe 1500 if my business qualifies as small business).

FUCK.

 

[olds]

Foxit

 

[Vehemence]

Well at least it's not Monday

 

[IceBergSLiM]

nuance pdf pro

your welcome.

 

[dullard]

PDFs suck, always have, always will.

This is just one of dozens of reasons why they suck. You can do the exact same thing (fillable forms) easilly in Office software (and probably Open Office, but I haven't tried it).

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: oldsmoboat
Foxit

will he need to send a copy of foxit with every single form?

 

[Ns1]

The reason we chose PDF's is because of their security. I want people to be ONLY able to save form data; they should not be able to print the form.

I looked briefly at Nuance yesterday, I'll have to take a more in depth look at it today.

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: Ns1
The reason we chose PDF's is because of their security. I want people to be ONLY able to save form data; they should not be able to print the form.

I looked briefly at Nuance yesterday, I'll have to take a more in depth look at it today.

Print Screen is your enemy. Anyone with just a little bit of knowledge can print it, no matter what program you use.

 

[MrChad]

Originally posted by: dullard
PDFs suck, always have, always will.

This is just one of dozens of reasons why they suck. You can do the exact same thing (fillable forms) easilly in Office software (and probably Open Office, but I haven't tried it).

They don't suck when used for their original intended purpose - distributing high-quality, read-only documents that can be viewed on any major computing platform.

Fillable forms are a (relatively) recent addition to the PDF spec, and yes they are quite limited/frustrating for small-scale applications.

 

[Ns1]

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: Ns1
The reason we chose PDF's is because of their security. I want people to be ONLY able to save form data; they should not be able to print the form.

I looked briefly at Nuance yesterday, I'll have to take a more in depth look at it today.

Print Screen is your enemy. Anyone with just a little bit of knowledge can print it, no matter what program you use.

Yeah but if I can pwn 80% of the people then I'm pretty happy.

 

[MrChad]

Originally posted by: Ns1
So, what is the solution? Adobe wants you to buy something called "Adobe LiveCycle Reader Extensions". What the fuck is LiveCycle? What the fuck is this reader extension bullshit? 30 minutes of reading and I still have no clue. Do I need a server for LiveCycle? How many peeps can I send this shit too? More importantly, HOW MUCH DOES THIS LICENSING COST?!?!??

LiveCycle is an Adobe server product that acts as a form management system. It controls the security and form data submission as well.

I'm not 100 percent certain on licensing costs, but it's not cheap.

 

[TallBill]

Originally posted by: oldsmoboat
Foxit

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: MrChad
They don't suck when used for their original intended purpose - distributing high-quality, read-only documents that can be viewed on any major computing platform.

Fillable forms are a (relatively) recent addition to the PDF spec, and yes they are quite limited/frustrating for small-scale applications.

PDFs were NEVER intended to be read on screen (regarding the OP's problem). Their purpose is to be printed and read in paper format. Haven't you ever noticed that they often are unreadable on screen at 100% zoom? The "read-only" part is the problem. You need to print them.

Just about and other format can be set to be non-editable and since you have to download a reader, just about ANY other format can be viewed on any major platform.

 

[MrChad]

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: MrChad
They don't suck when used for their original intended purpose - distributing high-quality, read-only documents that can be viewed on any major computing platform.

Fillable forms are a (relatively) recent addition to the PDF spec, and yes they are quite limited/frustrating for small-scale applications.

PDFs were NEVER intended to be read on screen (regarding the OP's problem). Their purpose is to be printed and read in paper format. Haven't you ever noticed that they often are unreadable on screen at 100% zoom? The "read-only" part is the problem. You need to print them.

Just about and other format can be set to be non-editable and since you have to download a reader, just about ANY other format can be viewed on any major platform.

PDF describes the appearance of a page in device-independent way. It's up to the program controlling the output (either printer or monitor) to interpret the PDF description and render it properly.

What other formats are you suggesting?

Well, in any case, it doesn't matter. PDF has it's problems, but so do most other formats. The point is that using PDF as a fillable form platform is going to be a frustrating experience unless you pony up some big bucks.

 

[Ns1]

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: MrChad
They don't suck when used for their original intended purpose - distributing high-quality, read-only documents that can be viewed on any major computing platform.

Fillable forms are a (relatively) recent addition to the PDF spec, and yes they are quite limited/frustrating for small-scale applications.

PDFs were NEVER intended to be read on screen (regarding the OP's problem). Their purpose is to be printed and read in paper format. Haven't you ever noticed that they often are unreadable on screen at 100% zoom? The "read-only" part is the problem. You need to print them.

Just about and other format can be set to be non-editable and since you have to download a reader, just about ANY other format can be viewed on any major platform.

The forms will be printed, but after being filled out; at least that's the idea!

 

[MmmSkyscraper]

Nice rant, would LOL again.

 

[SphinxnihpS]

Yep, I gave up on converting all our data collection forms to fill-able forms. They work for me, but not anyone I send them to.

 

[GeekDrew]

Some the agencies I support use Nuance OmniForm for internal form completion / retention purposes... and Nuance retired OmniForm. I've been looking for a solution for quite some time; I've pretty much determined that the only acceptable solution must use PDF format (standard), so that it can be opened by another program if the current program is retired. Foxit Reader can allow users to save the data that they type into fields, which I can deploy within the agency without any difficulty. I just hope that nobody tries to take any work home with them -- Acrobat Reader will confuse the hell out of them when they realize they can't save hours of work. I'm still trying to figure out whether you're usually able to view saved changes in Acrobat (complete the form in Foxit, and then save it, then open it in Acrobat or any other reader) or if Foxit is the only program that will ever be able to see your data. So far I'm getting mixed opinions, and my experience is that nothing else can read the data that Foxit saves in the PDF.

I use Acrobat LiveCycle Designer 8 to design forms, and hate it.

 

[rivan]

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: MrChad
They don't suck when used for their original intended purpose - distributing high-quality, read-only documents that can be viewed on any major computing platform.

Fillable forms are a (relatively) recent addition to the PDF spec, and yes they are quite limited/frustrating for small-scale applications.

PDFs were NEVER intended to be read on screen (regarding the OP's problem). Their purpose is to be printed and read in paper format. Haven't you ever noticed that they often are unreadable on screen at 100% zoom? The "read-only" part is the problem. You need to print them.

Just about and other format can be set to be non-editable and since you have to download a reader, just about ANY other format can be viewed on any major platform.

People here love to bash PDF and Acrobat. Sometimes, there's merit to the comments, sometimes there isn't.

PDFs were exactly originally intended to be readable on screen. They were originally meant as a means of making Postscript portable while maintaining it's accuracy. Unfortunately, It's been oversold and overbuilt over the years in an effort to satisfy every single need out there.

If you can't read a PDF on screen, the problem isn't the format, it's the content of the file. I can send you a PDF that's razor sharp at 6400%.

As for other formats, none (that I know) allows such accurate, consistent rendering between screen and printer. The kerning between a capital "T" and the "o" next to it might not ever matter in your world, but it does in mine, and my world is where PDF got it's start.

 

[Ns1]

lmao, I got pricing

the Adobe Reader Extensions solution option ($10k per form)

 

[rivan]

Originally posted by: Ns1
lmao, I got pricing

the Adobe Reader Extensions solution option ($10k per form)

Honestly, this doesn't sound right, unless it's a new thing. I've been creating forms and using them around the office for years. PM me, if you like; I might be able to help

 

[Ns1]

Originally posted by: rivan

Originally posted by: Ns1
lmao, I got pricing

the Adobe Reader Extensions solution option ($10k per form)

Honestly, this doesn't sound right, unless it's a new thing. I've been creating forms and using them around the office for years. PM me, if you like; I might be able to help

YGPM

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Ns1

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: Ns1
The reason we chose PDF's is because of their security. I want people to be ONLY able to save form data; they should not be able to print the form.

I looked briefly at Nuance yesterday, I'll have to take a more in depth look at it today.

Print Screen is your enemy. Anyone with just a little bit of knowledge can print it, no matter what program you use.

Yeah but if I can pwn 80% of the people then I'm pretty happy.

That many retards out there or you just aren't selling something people are buying?

 

[Ns1]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: Ns1

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: Ns1
The reason we chose PDF's is because of their security. I want people to be ONLY able to save form data; they should not be able to print the form.

I looked briefly at Nuance yesterday, I'll have to take a more in depth look at it today.

Print Screen is your enemy. Anyone with just a little bit of knowledge can print it, no matter what program you use.

Yeah but if I can pwn 80% of the people then I'm pretty happy.

That many retards out there or you just aren't selling something people are buying?

wat?

This is for a client - they don't want people to be able to use their forms.

 

[hanoverphist]

any format can be cracked into when locked. its not really that hard. why not set it up online, send out a link instead of the pdf and have them complete it on your sitre? that way you can just dl the database and print it when you want? you may have to pay a developer to create the page for you, but it seems like it would be a far better situation than all this pdf business youre dealing with.