Damn westerners and their creationism.

[Tweak155]

You ever notice that, almost universally in these threads, Christianity is the only religion that's bashed into the ground? Regardless, I have nothing against Christianity as a religion. It has the same hogwash and tripe as just about any other religion in the world that came before or since so it doesn't deserve all the focus.

What I really hate are fundamentalists of all religions. Those nutjobs who think that their law should be followed to the letter and everything their book says is true. This includes people of ALL religions. The stories are FABLES dips**t. They're meant to teach a lesson which falls in line with the belief system of that particular religion. They're NOT true.
PSA:
The world was NOT created 10,000 years ago. People DON'T deserve to be punished for a BS caste system. Humans are NOT born sinners. Infidels need NOT be killed. God does NOT control all aspects of this existence to achieve some retarded grand plan.

And RSaylor I honestly WOULD NOT include Gandhi in your list. One of his famous lines:
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."
Gandhi was a Hindu. He believed in LESSONS and advice taken from each religion and NOT the nonsense stories as far as I can tell.

Not every Christian thinks this. While you claim Christian ignorance on evolution, I see you do the same to the religion.

EDIT:

Not "you" specifically. I should have said "many". In either case, ignorance is present.

 

[Connoisseur]

Not every Christian thinks this. While you claim Christian ignorance on evolution, I see you do the same to the religion.

EDIT:

Not "you" specifically. I should have said "many". In either case, ignorance is present.

I think you missed the part where i said:
"What I really hate are fundamentalists of all religions. Those nutjobs who think that their law should be followed to the letter and everything their book says is true."

FUNDAMENTALISTS - Not the average Joe. This was sort of the entire point of that post.

I don't hate against a religion as a whole. They're all more or less nonsense in my book but I'm a live and let live kinda guy as long as people don't preach to me or believe in something utterly ridiculous (the aforementioned examples). Fundies I don't tolerate.

::EDIT:: Let me add, they're nonsense but their stories are damn entertaining. The imagination from these authors is epic. They would've made a ton of money if they were alive nowadays.

 

[Tweak155]

I think you missed the part where i said:
"What I really hate are fundamentalists of all religions. Those nutjobs who think that their law should be followed to the letter and everything their book says is true."

FUNDAMENTALISTS - Not the average Joe. This was sort of the entire point of that post.

I don't hate against a religion as a whole. They're all more or less nonsense in my book but I'm a live and let live kinda guy as long as people don't preach to me or believe in something utterly ridiculous (the aforementioned examples). Fundies I don't tolerate.

::EDIT:: Let me add, they're nonsense but their stories are damn entertaining. The imagination from these authors is epic. They would've made a ton of money if they were alive nowadays.

Ah. I did not take that paragraph as directed only towards only those people. Most if not all of those ideas I know are not present in all Christian denominational beliefs.

 

[Atls]

Why do you care what others think?

 

[RSaylors]

SoCalAznGuy:

what about Jesus saying bad things

I love you: but the question was "what good has Christ done" and many examples abound. As I said, failure to properly apply a theory does not denote a failure in the theory, but in the practitioner. If you read scripture and fail understand that it should only be taken as good for teaching us to love God and love each-other, then you have failed as a practitioner. This is established by Jesus when he sets forth the basic guidelines

love God, Love each-other, all scripture hinges on this

Rocksteady:

If God is omnipotent...

God is not omnipotent, he can not do anything he wants. For example, he can't do or abide in evil things. Jesus was resurrected because he was perfect(not sinful). We have hope that in living like Christ we can live in the part of his perfection that allowed for his resurrection.

TotalNoob:

Can we sin in heaven

What is saved of us is only that which is perfect, our 'sinful' selves will be dead to us. For some that will involve very little memory of their lives, saved but taking nothing with them. For others it will be a purification of an already well-lived life, their life is in heaven.


Atls:

Why do you care what others think?

This is about getting past the barriers people put up because they feel ashamed, to ashamed to even admit that they are ashamed. Unfortunately irreligious people use a lack of religion as an excuse to fail to be more selfless and religious people use religion as an excuse to fail to be more selfless.

If you ask me, the self serving christian is morally much worse than the self serving atheist. At least the Atheist doesn't pretend that he is giving his life to Christ.

But the self-less follower of Christ, the person who lives by the teachings of Jesus by denying himself and accepting grace from God to do so, can be a better person than he once was. Such a man is the person that starts to truly overcome self-serving/other destroying: lust, greed and pride.

 

[Connoisseur]

Why do you care what others think?

Not that i'm ruler of a nation or anything, but it's disturbing to think that such a large portion of the population believes in absolute nonsense (creationism is a prime example). We all know where this eventually leads... Injecting religious beliefs and values in schools, laws etc. Some states in the south/midwest are prime examples of this where they want to introduce "intelligent design" into the curriculum.

As long as individuals stick to their own beliefs and don't even try to influence others, i have no issue. It's when those individuals form a large group and begin imposing their will on a population as a whole is when I start cocking my non-existent gun.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Jesus was resurrected because he was perfect.

Come on. "Perfect" is a humpty-dumpty word. It can mean virtually anything. Was Jesus the perfect height? Was he the perfect weight? Was he the perfect skin color? Was he a perfect guitarist? Was he perfectly square? Was he perfectly circular? Which one is the "perfect" shape?

What is saved of us is only that which is perfect, our 'sinful' selves will be dead to us.

I have a scar on my face, so presumably it isn't perfect anymore. I guess it's gonna suck not getting to save my face on my way to heaven. Or maybe I have the pefect scar. 🙄

 

[RSaylors]

"Perfect" is a humpty-dumpty word.

He always lived in such a way as to love God and love his fellow man. We desire/hope for the elimination of that in us which leads us to self-serving/other destroying: lust, greed and pride (evil).


Accepting that evil is part of who we are, that we can't fix ourselves, and allowing God to be the one who we rely on for direction is the first step for the follower of Jesus.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

He always lived in such a way as to love God and love his fellow man. It is the elimination of that in us that leads to self-serving/other destroying: lust, greed and pride that will hope for.

That's great. Did you know that my next door neighbor has three rabbits? It's true! And my sister saw a dead pigeon in her backyard yesterday! No kidding. Her dog almost ate it! She's got a really good dog.

Anyway, now that we're done exchanging irrelevancies, why don't you try submitting something which actually deals with the issue I raised?

 

[totalnoob]

He always lived in such a way as to love God and love his fellow man. It is the elimination of that in us which leads to self-serving/other destroying: lust, greed and pride that we desire/hope for.

Did he love the money changers in the temple when he hand made a scourge (the same torture device later used on him) and charged into the temple to scare them out?

 

[FuzzyDunlop]

The most noteworthy post in this thread which most of you have seemed to skim over or flat out ignore...

I learned long ago not to try to convince anyone to believe in God (ATOT included). I have a "to each their own" policy when it comes to this issue...it really just saves a lot argument.

Nobody is going to convince me that God doesn't exist. And I have no desire to convince a non-believer that God exists. At the very least, I can live harmoniously with people with different views.

If only you all could learn this as well.

 

[MJinZ]

The most noteworthy post in this thread which most of you have seemed to skim over or flat out ignore...


If only you all could learn this as well.

In other news, if we could all live with people who have differing views, forums like ATOT would not exist because it would have no purpose.

 

[FuzzyDunlop]

In other news, if we could all live with people who have differing views, forums like ATOT would not exist because it would have no purpose.

so in other news, you cant carry on a discussion with somebody without disagreeing with them?

 

[Connoisseur]

so in other news, you cant carry on a discussion with somebody without disagreeing with them?

Where's the fun of a discussion without some dissent? If we all just accepted that we couldn't convince others that their belief is wrong/our belief is right, we wouldn't have ANY good conversation whatsoever. It would just be a bunch of guys silently in a room smoking a pipe and having riveting conversations like:
A: "Well what say you about that Euro?"
B: "Jolly good currency that."
A: "Yes yes, i think i'll rip a fart now. Pardon.."

 

[FuzzyDunlop]

Where's the fun of a discussion without some dissent? If we all just accepted that we couldn't convince others that their belief is wrong/our belief is right, we wouldn't have ANY good conversation whatsoever. It would just be a bunch of guys silently in a room smoking a pipe and having riveting conversations like:
A: "Well what say you about that Euro?"
B: "Jolly good currency that."
A: "Yes yes, i think i'll rip a fart now. Pardon.."

right-o.
"Now fire zee mizzles!"

 

[Connoisseur]

right-o.
"Now fire zee mizzles!"

My point is, these religious arguments are incredibly predictable. Eventually, someone comes along and says "Look, you're not gonna convince me that I'm wrong and I'm not going to convince you that you're wrong so SHUT UP!" Honestly, that's the point where you know one party (generally the religious one) gave up on the argument. You know what? It might be as pointless as bashing one's head against a brick wall, but damnit, it's entertaining. And it makes me waste my time at work. So I'll stick with bashing religious fundies for all their awesome stupidity thank you very much.

 

[MJinZ]

so in other news, you cant carry on a discussion with somebody without disagreeing with them?

You can, that would be an informative or polite conversation.

Others are called arguments.

 

[Patt]

I'd have to say those stats are such bullshit ... born and raised in Alberta, and the percentages are nowhere near that high in my experience. From Edmonton, to Calgary to rural northern Alberta ... I just can't believe that.

 

[RSaylors]

Did he love the money changers in the temple when he hand made a scourge (the same torture device later used on him) and charged into the temple to scare them out?

Good question, do you think he lacked love for God and his fellow man when he did that? I think that sometimes rebuke can be a very loving thing.

I have a scar on my face, so presumably it isn't perfect anymore.

Physical appearance is so irrelevant, I just wonder why you think it is... I'm sorry about the scar, it must be a big deal for you. To your question of physical appearance: I don't know. I go as far as having hope in the example set by Jesus, what the end-game is I can't say 100% for sure. If i were to guess, I would say we would look like the persons we would have been had the evils of the world not impinged upon our existence.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Physical appearance is so irrelevant, I just wonder why you think it is...

🙄 I suggest you go back and read my first reply to you, and this time try to achieve some level of comprehension.

I'm sorry about the scar, it must be a big deal for you. To your question of physical appearance: I don't know. I go as far as having hope in the example set by Jesus, what the end-game is I can't say 100% for sure. If i were to guess, I would say we would look like the persons we would have been had the evils of the world not impinged upon our existence.

Cool story, bro. 🙄

 

[RSaylors]

RS: Jesus was perfect
CT: “perfect” can mean virtually anything
RS: By perfect I meant “always lived in such a way as to love God and love his fellow man.” And never did something that involved self-serving/other destroying: lust, greed or pride.
CT: neighbor has three rabbits…. deal with the issue I raised


RS: What is saved of us is only that which is perfect,
CT: I have a scar on my face, is it going to be ‘saved’
RS: Physical appearance is so irrelevant and I don’t know for sure. I guess we would look like the persons we would have been had the evils of the world not impinged upon our existence.
CT: try to achieve some level of comprehension.


So, please, enlighten the audience, what exactly are you on about?

Or did you miss the definition of perfect as being a matter of how lovingly we deal with each other?

You’ve gotten silly.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

RS: By perfect I meant...

Where, exactly, did you say this?

So, please, enlighten the audience, what exactly are you on about?

I'm "on about" the fact that you seem to have no idea what you yourself are on about. If in fact you do, you're doing a shite job of communicating it.

Or did you miss the definition of perfect as being a matter of how lovingly we deal with each other?

No such definition was supplied.

You’ve gotten silly.

You've gotten dishonest.

 

[DanDaManJC]

The most noteworthy post in this thread which most of you have seemed to skim over or flat out ignore...


If only you all could learn this as well.

Aye what ribs me the wrong way are cases of extreme ignorance. I'm not so much concerned about your choice to believe what you do... but I think I'm within my bounds to be pissed off at you for believing what you do for the wrong reasons.

 

[RSaylors]

I thought it would be pedantic to say "in order to respond to this I am going to give you the definition of the word you are asking about, the definition is as follows".

"Perfect" is a humpty-dumpty word.

He always lived in such a way as to love God and love his fellow man. We desire/hope for the elimination of that in us which leads us to self-serving/other destroying: lust, greed and pride (evil).

to clarify:
Perfection is in reference to something that relates to how we relate the others and the world around us, not physical prowess/appearance/etc. I can see the confusion.

The point is that a lot of good has come from the teachings of Jesus, but we take that for granted and then blame him for people that do the opposite of what he tough.