MagicMan17
Senior member
This is exactly what I need to know to make a decision...what card can best take 2-channels and upgrade them to 5 channel or 6 channel sound? Can my nForce do it?
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Damn audio...so confusing...ENLISTING HELP OF ALL AUDIOPHILES!!
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This is exactly what I need to know to make a decision...what card can best take 2-channels and upgrade them to 5 channel or 6 channel sound? Can my nForce do it?
Sunny129
Diamond Member
while i'm not desperate to figure it out soon, i am trying to firgure it out as well...and i just looked at two different reviews of my mobo, one indicating an Analog Devices AD1985 codec (here at AnandTech), and the other indicating Realtek ACL650 codec. anyways, when i get back into town, i'll have a look at the hardware profile to see if it tells me which codec i have. once i find that out, i can look up whether it supports stereo to 4.1 / 5.1 conversion. if so, i'll let you know how good it sounds. if not, i'll switch over to may Acoustic Edge which i know supports it in one form or another, and see how good it sounds.
Heretik
Senior member
Here's a review of Soundstorm on an nForce2 motherboard and in particular, using the Dolby Digital/Surround encoding features...
http://www.overclockers.com.au/article.php?id=134416
http://www.overclockers.com.au/article.php?id=134416
The Z560 is completely analog, and I highly doubt there are any DACs in the satellites apart from the drivers. There isn't any digital-to-analog conversion going on in the Z560. The source you get is analog signals from the sound card, and when received by the control center and the subwoofer, it's still all analog signals. Where did you get all this info? AFAIK, the only electronics that I'm aware of inside the Z560 are the amp and some circuitry to seperate the channels.
You cannot, with ANY card, take a 2 channel source and somehow manufacture 3/4 more truly discrete channels. To have 5.1 channels come out of your speakers, you need to have a 5.1 channel source.
You can, however, matrix together channels to provide NON-DISCRETE channels. All you're doing is taking sound that is supposed to go to one speaker and sending to another. Some technologies do this better than others. This does not make it better than 5.1 discrete channels.
If all you want is sound coming from all the speakers (not different sounds coming from different speakers, which is the only reason to want more than 1 speaker...), just wire as many speakers as you want into the speaker out terminals of your stereo. Put them in front of you, behind you, above you, whatever.
Do you want to listent to MP3s in 5.1 surround sound? They are encoded in stereo (best case scenario), and so there is no benefit to having sound come from behind you as there is no additional signal to send to those speakers.
Do you want to play games and be able to tell when the bad guys are behind you? Use the analog connections to send the channels that the game generates to analog speakers. Or use the NF2 Soundstorm to take those signals, encode, or "translate", them into DD5.1 (I don't think NF1 can do this), send them over a digital connection to a DD decoder (ie a HT receiver or some PC speakers), which will then decode the DD "language" and output analog audio.
Do you want to play DVDs that are already encoded in DD5.1? Use the software (ie PowerDVD) to decode the DD and send the discrete channels over analog connections on any 5.1 capable soundcard to speakers. Or use the NF1, NF2, Audigy1, A2, whatever, tell the software to not process the audio (ie use SPDIF out), and have your soundcard do nothing but shuttle the DD stream to a DD decoder (ie a HT receiver or some PC speakers), which will then decode the DD "language" and output analog audio.
5.1 does not refer to how many speakers you have. You'd have 6 or more to play a 5.1 channel stream. 5.1 refers to how many channels there are: 2 front (left and right), 2 rear (left and right), 1 front centre, and ".1" LFE (low freq. effects) low low low bass that comes from a subwoofer, and is too low to hear (but not too low to feel, aka the rumble of explosions that shakes the seats).
re #1) No such thing as digital sound. If you mean 5.1 surround sound, yes you can do this.
2) A2 is considered superior to NF1. If it's free, I'd take it. It has in-game effects that the NF1 doesn't and will also give lower frame rates.
3) You don't need creative speakers specifically. 6.1 adds an additional rear centre channel, few sources are encoded with this yet and as such the centre channel will rarely emit a discrete signal, but will rather emit a matrixed (mixed) signal of the other 2 rears. Not worth additional $$ yet, IMHO.
4) Yes, that would work.
5) Yes, see above.
6) N/A. You can.
7) See #3
8) I'll let someone else who know PC speakers better than I make recommendations here.
9) Any device that takes sound stored digitally and turns it into an analog signal has DACs; soundcards, HT receivers, Logitech Z680s. Their ability to maintain "digital"/high quality is dependant on the quality of the DACs. You will need DACs to have multi-channel (or even uni-channel) support as all PC audio starts digitally and ends up as analog. If
by digital sound you mean surround sound, then yes provided by analog inputs you mean analog outputs.
Whew. That has been my longest answer ever! Hope I'm clear...
MagicMan17
Senior member
yep, thanx JonTom...what a long winded answer but well worded and easy to understand...
But what confuses me is that on the back of the Audigy2 Card it says it uses "CMSS" technology to turn 2-channel sound into 5 or 6 channel. I mean I know it won't be "true, discrete" multi-channel sound but it would sound better than just having regular 2 channel reproduced in all the satellites. That's mostly what my question was (though badly worded), which card can take those 2 channels and do the best upgrade to 5 or 6 channel?
But what confuses me is that on the back of the Audigy2 Card it says it uses "CMSS" technology to turn 2-channel sound into 5 or 6 channel. I mean I know it won't be "true, discrete" multi-channel sound but it would sound better than just having regular 2 channel reproduced in all the satellites. That's mostly what my question was (though badly worded), which card can take those 2 channels and do the best upgrade to 5 or 6 channel?
MagicMan17
Senior member
good read...so can my nForce do the hardware decoding that is mentioned in the article?
P.S. still also would like someone to answer my question 2 posts ago
P.S. still also would like someone to answer my question 2 posts ago
AFAIK, CMSS is conceptually similar to using the "Pavillion" or "Concert Hall" button on your stereo to make it sound like you are in in that type of environment.
Personally, if sounds were encoded in stereo, then I say play them in stereo. That's how they were intended to sound. 2 channel sound will only come out of 2 speakers, not all the speakers. That's what the sound engineer who mixed the CD designed it to sound like and I would rather trust him than some software algorithm.
I seem to remember reading about a Phillips card that employed "psycho-acoustics" to make it seem like sounds were coming from behind you with only 2 speakers. It was supposed to work surprisingly well. TBSC cards may have the same feature.
I don't know which card would do the best job making sounds come from actual speakers behind you from a 2 channel source. My HT receiver can do it, but I turned it off because it sounded wrong and hollow somehow.
Yes, I believe so. The 3 analog miniplugs (line in, line out, and mic) can be changed to front, rear, and centre/lfe channel outputs.
I just read the manual for your mobo, and apparently I stand corrected in that your mobo can in fact also encode DD. Just to confuse things a bit.
I don't think that means it will take 2 channels and encode it into 5.1 discrete channels. It may do so, but (I think) 3.1 of those channels will be empty, if you follow... Just because you translate a phrase from English to French doesn't mean you need to include all the words in the French language in the French phrase...
Unlike most things, digital is not what you want with a computer audio setup using computer speakers. Analog has all the advantages.
Logitech does not make any digital speakers. Microsoft had a set a while back, and I think Altec Lansing did as well. There is no way to connect a digital source directly to any Logitec speakers.
Not necessarily. More doesn't always mean better.
This is completely opinion based, but they all stink in my opinion. If the source is stereo, leave it in stereo, especially when listening to music. If all the card does is mirror the fronts to the back, that's ok, but I don't think any of the current soundcards do that. They all seem to apply reverb effects and other manipulations that hollow the sound and make it sound like you are sitting in an empty non-carpeted concrete room. No one can tell you which one will sound best to you, since audio preferences are strictly personal things.
No, only the Live! 5.1, Audigy and Audigy 2 can decode DD on board. The Audigy 2 adds DD-EX support. No cards can decode DTS. This isn't really that important since all the major software DVD players can decode all the DD and DTS standards.
MagicMan17
Senior member
good explanation with the french thing 🙂
So, at the least I would at least have 5 speakers spitting out stereo which is ok in situations like basketball games and such (have tv card in comp) where extra sound will just add to the excitement...
So I see now, absolutely no reason to get an Audigy 2 or TBSC, I just hope that I don't need them in the future because of some feature they have that I don't (I can get them for cheap as of now)
So, at the least I would at least have 5 speakers spitting out stereo which is ok in situations like basketball games and such (have tv card in comp) where extra sound will just add to the excitement...
So I see now, absolutely no reason to get an Audigy 2 or TBSC, I just hope that I don't need them in the future because of some feature they have that I don't (I can get them for cheap as of now)
There is one advantage offered by a digital connection - less wires. Having only one coax cable run the 50 odd feet from my computer to my HT receiver is a
lot cheaper, has no hum, and less objectionable to the GF than a bundle of 6. But I don't get surround sound on games. However, I think that MagicMan has in fact confused "digital sound" with "surround sound".
Are the z680s not "digital speakers"? They accept digital connections and have an onboard DD decoder. Or are you refering to those USB speakers that came out a few years ago?
MagicMan, note the last sentence. Just because your soundcard won't decode DD (or DTS) doesn't mean that you won't be able to use it. Your DVD software will decode it and your soundcard will then output the analog stream to your speakers. You will get the same end result, but through software instead of hardware.
Actually, you'd have 5 speakers, but only 2 would be "spitting out stereo" 🙂 The others would be silent. If you are listening in stereo, ie: music, this is how it should be (turn off all surround processing).
Now to further confuse things.... Many TV shows are in Dolby Pro-Logic. This is a four channel, non-discrete format (see the FAQ). In practice, this means that (for example) a basketball game MAY have most of the action in the centre channel, some sounds in the front R and L channels, and probably just crowd noise in the rear channel. IMHO, this is not as good, or exciting, as it may sound.
Computer speakers. How do you connect 7 individual speakers with one cable? And how many people set up their Creative Inspire speakers 50ft away from their computer?
The z680's are analog speakers just like all Logitech's other speakers. They have an external decoder as a bridge between the speakers and the sound card, but the connection from the decoder to the speakers is analog.
Sunny129
Diamond Member
i actually got the info from another thread here a while ago, but you guys seem to know what you're talking about, so i stand corrected. the thread was actually concerning the Z-680's, not the 560's, but i assumed the technology was the same, and that the only difference between the two was 4.1 and 5.1. so now that i found out otherwise, i have a few questions myself. i still continue to hear that Logitech's Z series have external conversion. is this true or not? if true, can i not connect them to the soundcard in a way other than analog-out by way of an adapter cord of some kind (thus bypassing DAC on the sound card altogether), and ultimately allow the speakers to convert the signal back to analog?
Sunny129, for the Z680, you could use a digital coax or optical connection from the soundcard to transfer audio digitally to the Z680 for it to convert back to analog. However, with a soundcard like the Audigy2, its DAC is of a higher quality than the one on Z680 so you will likely get inferior audio quality.
Sunny129
Diamond Member
that's exactly what i thought. though i don't have an audigy2. i have an older Acoustic Edge, which i'm pretty sure has a digital-out. i firugr its worth a try, and if the quality is not as good, i can always switch back. i am also considering getting an M-Audio Revolution card...but until then...
Okay, so if the decoder was in the driver enclosure, they'd be "digital speakers"? As they accept digital connections, I'd say they (the set, not the individual drivers, per se) are digital speakers. A digital set, if you will.
The Z680s are not USB speakers, which I think we agree is a good thing 🙂 But as fas as a the soundcard is concerned, they might as well be a HT receiver. That is what I meant.
MagicMan17
Senior member
Yeah, I see your point on "if its stereo, leave it in stereo"...well that just about means I shouldn't even get a 5.1 setup because I barely watch any DVD's on my comp so until the time comes where all games/mp3's/divx is multi-channeled, its pretty worthless for me...right?
Along with that, I would like it if the stereo sound is reproduced (not changed to 5.1 which a lot of you says degrades the sound quality because it hollows it out and such) in all the speakers and you still get a good, centrally focused experience...is this possible? And with what sound card/speakers?
I don't know if any sound cards will mirror the front signals to the rear speakers.
But you can do that by wiring two speakers to the same output. Be careful of the volume levels because the impedence goes down (I think), but as long as you don't turn it up too loud you should be fine. I've done this before, to get additional speakers in another room for example, without any problems.
But you can do that by wiring two speakers to the same output. Be careful of the volume levels because the impedence goes down (I think), but as long as you don't turn it up too loud you should be fine. I've done this before, to get additional speakers in another room for example, without any problems.
MagicMan17
Senior member
damn, that sux
MagicMan17
Senior member
hey, you're in second place...
Anyway, can something more expensive like the logitech z-680's with hardware decoding mirror 2 channel sound into the rear speakers?
Sunny129
Diamond Member
yes...while JonTom said there may be no sound card that will mirror the front signals to the rear speakers, the Logitech Z-680's will do it. It comes with a control center that toggles between 5 audio modes, two of which are "stereo" and "stereo x 2." The latter simply duplicates the front signals through the rears.
i don't know about the Z-560's, but the Klipsch 4.1's also do it by simply turning up the surround sound knob on the control satellite. i don't know about the 5.1's b/c i've never had experience with them.
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