Dallas Officer - quota system is corrupt

[brainhulk]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...lice-WRONGLY-arrested-help-arrest-quotas.html

In my estimation the quota system is corrupt. You are telling the officer who has a great deal of power that he is required to exercise that and generate funds for the city. Arrests generate money.

Novello said large numbers of the black community in Dallas distrusted the police and had been wrongly arrested to help fulfill an arrest 'quota' laid down on officers.

He said: 'If he wants them to sign up, he had better stop criminalizing them for things like having small amounts of marijuana.

'Some officers fit people up by arresting them for being intoxicated when they refuse to show their IDs and that leads to a criminal record and difficulties in finding a job.

'Officers are under pressure to reach targets. There has to be an end to the arrest and ticket quota that exists within the Dallas police department.

Interesting take on a possible cause of the problem. I wonder if this leads to the downfall of the quota system

 

[destrekor]

The War on Drugs and the need to generate revenue through policing are two of the, if not the, causes of everything wrong today.

 

[BoberFett]

The War of Drugs and the need to generate revenue through policing are two of the, if not the, causes of everything wrong today.

Fact.

 

[smackababy]

The War of Drugs and the need to generate revenue through policing are two of the, if not the, causes of everything wrong today.

Yes, but don't confuse things like ticketing people speed and red light cameras as something wrong. The only incentive people have to not break petty laws like that is hurting the pocket book of said person.

Forcing officers to arrest people they otherwise wouldn't arrest or to look excessively hard ("hey black guy, you smell like weed, let me search you") promotes things like profiling and creates a system where corruption can be rampant.

I will agree the war on drugs has cost a lot of money, but what is the real alternative? I've argued numerous times that until (and if this is a thing, I'm certainly for it) we can test if a person is under the effects of a drug that is to be made legal AT that very moment in time, drugs can't reasonably be legal. Smoking weed will impair your driving. If you don't believe this, you've smoked yourself retarded. Since we can't detect that, we can't just pretend it's going to be fine. We regulate intoxication due to alcohol decently and have the ability to test someone's impairment to a certain degree.

 

[soulcougher73]

The War of Drugs and the need to generate revenue through policing are two of the, if not the, causes of everything wrong today.

So much this

 

[positivedoppler]

The War on Drugs and the need to generate revenue through policing are two of the, if not the, causes of everything wrong today.

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[Puffnstuff]

The police have been commissioned to enforce the law not create new illegal laws and having quota's certainly undermines the founding fathers purpose for creating our foundational law (the constitution). Police do many other illegal things such as harassing people in an attempt to goad them into breaking the law to justify their illegal activities which is also illegal and should be discontinued. I don't have the same respect for law enforcement as I used to and I'm a former LEO myself. In my mind cops should be like Andy Griffith in Mayberry or the guys on 1 Adam 12.

 

[skull]

Yes, but don't confuse things like ticketing people speed and red light cameras as something wrong. The only incentive people have to not break petty laws like that is hurting the pocket book of said person.

Forcing officers to arrest people they otherwise wouldn't arrest or to look excessively hard ("hey black guy, you smell like weed, let me search you") promotes things like profiling and creates a system where corruption can be rampant.

I will agree the war on drugs has cost a lot of money, but what is the real alternative? I've argued numerous times that until (and if this is a thing, I'm certainly for it) we can test if a person is under the effects of a drug that is to be made legal AT that very moment in time, drugs can't reasonably be legal. Smoking weed will impair your driving. If you don't believe this, you've smoked yourself retarded. Since we can't detect that, we can't just pretend it's going to be fine. We regulate intoxication due to alcohol decently and have the ability to test someone's impairment to a certain degree.

I wonder how Colorado is doing if there are more traffic accidents. I've been around a lot of people smoking pot and driving I don't like doing it but I don't think legalizing weed will turn the roads into bumper cars.

I'm with the rest of you the war on drugs is the biggest part of the problem. When I was hooked on heroin I drove a beat up old car, around the hood a lot. I got pulled over all the time. 6 years clean I drive an older but clean car no dents, no busted lights, no mirrors hanging off. I've been pulled over once back when I was still on felony probation back in 2010.

The war on drugs is not working people still get all the drugs they want. They just pay a higher price for them. They take risks because the drugs arn't regulated and what is it 75% percent of the jail population is drug related. The users want the drugs the dealers just want to make money I don't see a victim in there anywhere. The way the system works now they are both victims.

 

[Artdeco]

I wonder how Colorado is doing if there are more traffic accidents. I've been around a lot of people smoking pot and driving I don't like doing it but I don't think legalizing weed will turn the roads into bumper cars.

I'm with the rest of you the war on drugs is the biggest part of the problem. When I was hooked on heroin I drove a beat up old car, around the hood a lot. I got pulled over all the time. 6 years clean I drive an older but clean car no dents, no busted lights, no mirrors hanging off. I've been pulled over once back when I was still on felony probation back in 2010.

The war on drugs is not working people still get all the drugs they want. They just pay a higher price for them. They take risks because the drugs arn't regulated and what is it 75% percent of the jail population is drug related. The users want the drugs the dealers just want to make money I don't see a victim in there anywhere. The way the system works now they are both victims.

Strangely enough, we're doing great, there aren't any numbers or studies showing problems since legalization. I gotta tell you, we have some killer weed here...

This thread really points out what I feel are some serious problems in law enforcement, look at the opiate problem in the US, it's insane, and the generation of revenue from aggressive ticketing is impacting minorities a hell of a lot, it's not so much them getting shot, etc, the numbers don't bear that out, as much as they're being harassed and fined into oblivion by the system that's developed.

 

[skull]

I know bud ever since you guys legalized it we get all the good stuff with the funny names over here in ohio.

 

[Ackmed]

I don't have a problem not arresting for a small amount of weed, the war on drugs has a lot of bad. I'd be interested in seeing hard proof of quotas with how many are required.

But complaining that arresting someone for being publicly drunk and refusing to show ID isn't the right thing to do? Because it's harder to find a job? I don't agree with that, stop being drunk in public and refusing to show ID. That leads to confrontation with police and how bad things happen.

 

[Anubis]

wow they admitted to having quotas. they have been denying they existed for decades

 

[Red Squirrel]

The War on Drugs and the need to generate revenue through policing are two of the, if not the, causes of everything wrong today.

So true. Policing should NOT be for profit. Same with jail or any type of penal system.

 

[Elganja]

it's not the police officers fault for enforcing a law they did not create ... their job is to enforce the laws created by our elected officials

you break the law, you face the consequences... simple as that. It's a joke people complain about breaking the law, and facing consequences and want to be let off. News flash, if you don't break the law you won't have a criminal record

 

[Red Squirrel]

it's not the police officers fault for enforcing a law they did not create ... their job is to enforce the laws created by our elected officials

you break the law, you face the consequences... simple as that. It's a joke people complain about breaking the law, and facing consequences and want to be let off. News flash, if you don't break the law you won't have a criminal record

It's the amount of force used that is the problem. People should not be getting tased, shot, beaten, over a few grams of weed, or having a knife, or even having a gun (isn’t that a right in the states after all?) etc.

A lot of the laws are an issue too, so many stupid laws these days and they keep making more. Kids can't even operate a lemonade stand anymore, it's gotten so ridiculous. This is not the police's fault but the government as a whole for just all round being ridiculous. A lot of those stupid laws usually revolve around liability BS... which is a problem on it's own, but they're going about the wrong way of trying to fix it. Eliminate the problem at the source and stop all the stupid lawsuits.

 

[olds]

The War on Drugs and the need to generate revenue through policing are two of the, if not the, causes of everything wrong today.

Fact.

Come on now. How else are they going to finance their tanks?

 

[Elganja]

It's the amount of force used that is the problem. People should not be getting tased, shot, beaten, over a few grams of weed, or having a knife, or even having a gun (isn’t that a right in the states after all?) etc.

agreed... but at the same time, the officers don't know the person who is in the car. unfortunately all the criminals out there ruin it for all of us (getting the benefit of the doubt)

any time i get pulled over, i comply and do what the officer asks me to do ... I do everything I can to make his job easier, because I understand how stressful their job is

A lot of the laws are an issue too, so many stupid laws these days and they keep making more. Kids can't even operate a lemonade stand anymore, it's gotten so ridiculous. This is not the police's fault but the government as a whole for just all round being ridiculous. A lot of those stupid laws usually revolve around liability BS... which is a problem on it's own, but they're going about the wrong way of trying to fix it. Eliminate the problem at the source and stop all the stupid lawsuits.

I agree, that is where the battle should be fought.. the officers are just doing their job enforcing them though, people need to stop blaming them for just doing their job

 

[Ackmed]

It's the amount of force used that is the problem. People should not be getting tased, shot, beaten, over a few grams of weed, or having a knife, or even having a gun (isn’t that a right in the states after all?) etc.

That's not why it's happening, it's because people refuse to listen and don't comply. I wouldn't get shot having a gun being pulled over, I would if I didn't listen to the cops and fought them with it.

It's not happening *because* of simply having something. At least very, very, very seldom it is the case.

 

[Red Squirrel]

That's not why it's happening, it's because people refuse to listen and don't comply. I wouldn't get shot having a gun being pulled over, I would if I didn't listen to the cops and fought them with it.

It's not happening *because* of simply having something. At least very, very, very seldom it is the case.

Sometimes the things cops ask don't make sense, like "DON'T MOVE. GIVE ME YOUR LICENSE AND REGISTRATION *NOW*" Person goes to reach for it, gets shot. "I SAID DON'T MOVE! NOW GET OUT OF THE VEHICLE!" *shoots guy again, because he's dead, so he's not moving*

Half the time the person does not even know why they got stopped and are simply asking why. Cops need to explain this before anything else. "I'm stopping you because..."

I really think cops need more training to deal with situations. I realize they have to be alert and ready for anything at all times, but they really need to stop jumping the gun so much. I think they should have to go through regular sensitivity training just to remind them that the people they are dealing with are still people, who have families etc. They're not just objects that have to be taken care of.

 

[Ackmed]

Of course you have proof of that happening as you've described? Sure, terrible mistakes happen. Terrible tragedies that we should strive to stop happening.

Your original narrative was that of someone getting shot "just because" they had an item you listed. Most times it's because someone resists doesn't listen, etc. Not simply because they have a knife on them.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Even then, killing or hurting someone just because they're not listening is not a good reason. In any other job, if someone is not cooperating, you'd get fired if you used violence. Cops should be held by that same standard. Worse is they even attack little kids now. There's a recent video of an autistic kid on a bus basically sitting there and not listening to anyone. I don't know if he was having some kind of attack or something but he just refused to move. So they called the cops, cop shows up, breaks his arm.

There needs to be some kind of authority that oversees cops, to stop this kind of thing. Could be as simple as making it so that 1: cops need to follow same laws as civilians, and 2: have some kind of program where colleagues can anonymously report bad cops and get some kind of bonus for it... though have to be careful with that so it can't be abused.

 

[nakedfrog]

Ticket/arrest quotas, and for-profit prisons? Gosh, no, I can't see how there could be a problem.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Yes, but don't confuse things like ticketing people speed and red light cameras as something wrong. The only incentive people have to not break petty laws like that is hurting the pocket book of said person.

But we should make it so the police do not profit from it. Mandate that ticket revenue go to things to help make society safer, like alcohol and drug rehab programs, anti-drinking and driving campaigns, and state sponsored safe driving classes for teens.

I will agree the war on drugs has cost a lot of money, but what is the real alternative?

Not having a war on drugs. Driving a texting is just, if not more, dangerous and we don't seem to think we must have a war on cell phones.

I've argued numerous times that until (and if this is a thing, I'm certainly for it) we can test if a person is under the effects of a drug that is to be made legal AT that very moment in time, drugs can't reasonably be legal.

We can do this easy. THC can be tested for in a simple saliva test instantly if all you are interested in if the person is currently under the influence. This test is not commonly used because it is only able to detect if the substance has been used in the last 12 hours. I'm sure that if there was a need for it a test for more appropriate shorter time frames could be developed (you just need to decrease the sensitivity which is a lot easier then increasing it)

it's not the police officers fault for enforcing a law they did not create ... their job is to enforce the laws created by our elected officials

Actually, it might be. Officers have a lot of leeway in determining if a law is being broken. When does a person go from just being a jerk to being a public nuisance? Laws are very often vague enough to allow LEO to make a judgment call on if there is a need to intervene. Give LEO a profit or quota motive to intervene and suddenly what was just a 'move along now' becomes an arrest. Shout the gospel of Christ through a megaphone from a soapbox on the corner of a busy street and you are politely asked to move along when local businesses complain, do the same thing but with the Koran and you are disturbing the peace. There are tens of thousands of examples like this.

you break the law, you face the consequences... simple as that. It's a joke people complain about breaking the law, and facing consequences and want to be let off. News flash, if you don't break the law you won't have a criminal record

It is not that simple. The laws are not being applied equally.

wow they admitted to having quotas. they have been denying they existed for decades

Dallas' local LEO union released papers and emails detailing the quota system after 15 patrol officers were placed on administrative leave for inflating traffic stop data.
Here is the story

 

[desura]

Another way of looking at the quota system is that it ensures that cops don't just slack off and spend all their time at the donut shop.

 

[jlee]

Even then, killing or hurting someone just because they're not listening is not a good reason. In any other job, if someone is not cooperating, you'd get fired if you used violence. Cops should be held by that same standard. Worse is they even attack little kids now. There's a recent video of an autistic kid on a bus basically sitting there and not listening to anyone. I don't know if he was having some kind of attack or something but he just refused to move. So they called the cops, cop shows up, breaks his arm.

There needs to be some kind of authority that oversees cops, to stop this kind of thing. Could be as simple as making it so that 1: cops need to follow same laws as civilians, and 2: have some kind of program where colleagues can anonymously report bad cops and get some kind of bonus for it... though have to be careful with that so it can't be abused.

I'd like to see you arrest a combative guy without using violence. Please video.