Dakota Pipeline - Protestors Assaulted With Water Cannons In Freezing Weather

[imported_tajmahal]

I just want to jump in here and comment on the use of pepper spray on protestors, since as a newspaper photojournalist I've seen lots of similar protests. This isn't addressing the race of the protesters directly.

• Cops give a lawful order for protestors to remove themselves from the area, warning they will be removed by force if they don't comply with the order.
  
• Protestors refuse, sit and join hands, etc.
• Cops weight their options, deciding that laying hands on the protestors to forcibly remove them has a very real chance of injuring protestors and cops. Lots of factors go into this tactical decision: how big is the crowd, are their violent elements among them, are there enough officers and holding facilities to detain the protestors or do they just need to be dispersed...etc.
  
• Cops then decide to use non-lethal pepper or OC spray to cause pain, but no physical injury, to the protestors to compel them to leave without having to go hands on and possibly injure someone.

I understand to the naive this may seem a "brutal" tactic, but what would you have our law enforcement officers do? Ask nicely and then give up when the protestors say no? Being sprayed with non-lethal pepper spray, which every officer has endured during training, is not the same as a bullet to the head. The protestors are responsible for pushing they authorities hand by refusing a lawful order. The cops have to figure out the move them as safely as possible to comply with the law.

Thank you, a pretty reasonable common sense attitude about protesters and police procedure. Far different from the unrealistic view that the police should put themselves in harms way to remove protesters from an area.

 

[werepossum]

I would think it was the code, but I saw the CEO of the company on PBS and he never mentioned that as a mitigating factor. He just was saying that it was new pipe, thick new pipe, it was going to be buried 70 feet below the surface of the river, and that there would be remote shutoff valves on either side. Nothing about a double wall.

Well. It certainly ought to be required. I do not believe that we can accurately measure the flow rate in and out to detect slow leaks. A slow leak could contaminate a lot of soil and water over time. However, an outer containment pipe pressurized with air and remotely monitored could detect changes in pressure as well as containing the leak itself. Replacement would be more expensive, but air could blow out the leaked oil without it entering the river or its vital benthic ecosystem before repair or replacement. Belt and suspenders when dealing with the environment, since everything is built by the low bidder, regulated by politicians, and inspected by government employees who face nothing more than a paid vacation and paid retraining classes if they fail. We need to lower the risks, raise the penalties, and make sure fast and thorough cleanup is funded before we allow something with great potential for harm.

Cops aren't going to get into a gun fight with 300 armed "protestors" But some college kids? Yeah lets go in there and fuck them up with batons and mace.

There is a lesson to be learned here by all protestors. Basically carry guns in large numbers and the gov will leave you alone.

Not if they stand in the way of progress. You are taking account of people who could safely be ignored for months at little cost and applying that lesson to people costing our nation a lot of money.

Personally I am so over protesters and I'd be fine with them all being clubbed, arrested and charged. But ironically, I tend to agree with their point.

 

[Paladin3]

Let's not pretend cops don't know a show of force means. Gotta make folks respect their authoritay.

What the heck does that even mean? Cops are tasked with keeping the peace and ending the illegal protest on private land. The use of pepper spray is an extremely mild attempt to enforce a lawful order.

I covered events like the Rodney King beating and the LA riots during my career. You can bet Rodney King would rather have had pepper spray used on him. The vast majority of cops today understand that excessive force will quickly lead to loss of career and possible prosecution.

You making this about the cops trying to be tough and demand respect is childish.

 

[MajinCry]

It isn't? Can you explain these peaceful non-threatening white college kids being pepper sprayed then?

or these peaceful white female protestors brutalized by the cops

I have seen enough protestors brutalized by cops to come to the conclusion that unarmed peaceful protestors have a damn good chance of brutalization no matter what their race or ethnicity. ARMED protestors are another matter altogether. They are definitely treated differently. I think we can agree on that.

I will concede that you could be 100% correct that the native American protestors were brutalized simply because they were native American. That is absolutely possible. However, that being admitted, I have not seen enough evidence to convince me that was the underlying motive. If what you posit is true, the officers involved should be arrested and charged with civil rights violations. Could you lay out your evidence, I am interested in looking at it. As far as I am aware, this is the only incident in the last decade of law enforcement brutalizing peaceful native American protestors. There could be hundreds of other incidents establishing a pattern and therefor a case of simple ignorance on my part.

Curiously, how many of these predominately white protestors had attack dogs set upon them, blasted by water cannons in freezing temperature (blindness coupled with hypothermia), framed as terrorists, and bombarded with plastic and rubber bullets?

I think I drew a parallel to the Giza Park protests earlier, in regards to the brutality the Native Americans are undergoing and then some.

Should also be noted that the brutality was severe enough, to warrant condemnation by the UN: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...reatment-of-north-dakota-pipeline-protesters/

The article touched on something rather...Disgusting; the Native American protestors were rounded up in dog kennels. https://twitter.com/TMclaughlin3/status/793218516052611072/photo/1

 

[Kazukian]

Curiously, how many of these predominately white protestors had attack dogs set upon them, blasted by water cannons in freezing temperature (blindness coupled with hypothermia), framed as terrorists, and bombarded with plastic and rubber bullets?

I think I drew a parallel to the Giza Park protests earlier, in regards to the brutality the Native Americans are undergoing and then some.

Should also be noted that the brutality was severe enough, to warrant condemnation by the UN: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...reatment-of-north-dakota-pipeline-protesters/

The article touched on something rather...Disgusting; the Native American protestors were rounded up in dog kennels. https://twitter.com/TMclaughlin3/status/793218516052611072/photo/1

Those style of holding cells have been used for decades.

 

[agent00f]

What the heck does that even mean? Cops are tasked with keeping the peace and ending the illegal protest on private land. The use of pepper spray is an extremely mild attempt to enforce a lawful order.

I covered events like the Rodney King beating and the LA riots during my career. You can bet Rodney King would rather have had pepper spray used on him. The vast majority of cops today understand that excessive force will quickly lead to loss of career and possible prosecution.

You making this about the cops trying to be tough and demand respect is childish.

Consider asking the cops what it means next time you have an opportunity. I don't even necessarily blame them since effective policing in part relies on respect for their authority, just informing you of how it works.

 

[Paladin3]

Consider asking the cops what it means next time you have an opportunity. I don't even necessarily blame them since effective policing in part relies on respect for their authority, just informing you of how it works.

I'd put you on ignore, and you'd be my first in the 12 years I've been here, but reading your BS is just too much fun.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Personally I am so over protesters and I'd be fine with them all being clubbed, arrested and charged.

Protesters are the only thing that keeps environmental damage in check. If it were not for people getting out in front of this sort of thing the companies would take the cheapest method possible and care nothing at all for the damage they cause.

The irony is that these people are literally putting their lives on the line to protect the environment you seem to care about and you think they should be beaten with sticks because you are tired of hearing about it on your TV from your comfy chair.

 

[agent00f]

I'd put you on ignore, and you'd be my first in the 12 years I've been here, but reading your BS is just too much fun.

You're like of those embedded iraq reporters rather giddy at the offer of access for opportunity to tell that side of the story.

 

[Paladin3]

You're like of those embedded iraq reporters rather giddy at the offer of access for opportunity to tell that side of the story.

First of all, you don't know me one bit. I take my journalistic integrity very seriously and am not a shill for authority as you imply. Watch your mouth.

If you wish to debate any of the many points I've made please feel free to do so. I'll be waiting.

 

[agent00f]

First of all, you don't know me one bit. I take my journalistic integrity very seriously and am not a shill for authority as you imply. Watch your mouth.

If you wish to debate any of the many points I've made please feel free to do so. I'll be waiting.

Surely as a serious journalist you can impartially compare the story of the Bundy's vs. these guys, and maybe take a good hard look at whether you where all giddy about spraying down them ranchers.

 

[Paladin3]

Surely as a serious journalist you can impartially compare the story of the Bundy's vs. these guys, and maybe take a good hard look at whether you where all giddy about spraying down them ranchers.

Illegally occupying land is illegally occupying land. Sometimes it has a legitimate purpose in effecting positive change, and sometimes it's a misguided attempt to force your will on others. That's not for me to decide, or is it for me to voice my personal opinion about when I am operating in a professional capacity. I don't champion a side when I report.

I don't have a horse in this race and my OP was only to comment on the use of pepper spray as about the safest level of force to use on protesters to get them to move. All you've done in response is imply I'm uninformed, biased, and now you are reaching at racist by asking that I compare white occupiers with native occupiers. You fail on all counts and have no argument other than to imply that police are tyrants and anyone who doesn't agree with you might just be a racist.

Now go ahead and ask me if I voted for Trump...or if I've spit on a Muslim lately...or stolen the bread out of a starving African child's mouth just before I molested them. You're a real piece of work.

 

[agent00f]

Illegally occupying land is illegally occupying land. Sometimes it has a legitimate purpose in effecting positive change, and sometimes it's a misguided attempt to force your will on others. That's not for me to decide, or is it for me to voice my personal opinion about when I am operating in a professional capacity. I don't champion a side when I report.

I don't have a horse in this race and my OP was only to comment on the use of pepper spray as about the safest level of force to use on protesters to get them to move. All you've done in response is imply I'm uninformed, biased, and now you are reaching at racist by asking that I compare white occupiers with native occupiers. You fail on all counts and have no argument other than claims that police are tyrants and anyone who doesn't agree with you might just be a racist.

Now go ahead and ask me if I voted for Trump...or if I've spit on a Muslim lately...or stolen the bread out of a starving African child's mouth just before I molested them. You're a real piece of work.

I'm hardly suggesting you actually need to be paid to paint the powers that be in the best light possible here.

 

[Paladin3]

I'm hardly suggesting you actually need to be paid to paint the powers that be in the best light possible here.

I can't/won't argue with stupid. Out.

 

[agent00f]

I can't/won't argue with stupid. Out.

Not a great move to suggest even stupid people can so easily outsmart you.

 

[Kazukian]

Not a great move to suggest even stupid people can so easily outsmart you.

I think you're confusing smart with last word troll.

Just block him, P3, it's not worth the trouble.

 

[agent00f]

I think you're confusing smart with last word troll.

Just block him, P3, it's not worth the trouble.

Clearly Kazukian is not dumb enough to take this guy's advice.

 

[Kazukian]

Clearly Kazukian is not dumb enough to take this guy's advice.

Sometimes I get curious who the poor soul is responding to, it's usually you or 2 others.

 

[agent00f]

Sometimes I get curious who the poor soul is responding to, it's usually you or 2 others.

Good to know you make exceptions sometimes for that willful ignorance.

 

[Kazukian]

Tuesday morning in ND

 

[imported_tajmahal]

Wow, that's quite a pile of global warming there.

Tuesday morning in ND

 

[JSt0rm]

Wow, that's quite a pile of global warming there.

fuck you are stupid. Im thankful everyday I didn't grow up with your life experiences because shit you are dumb.

 

[repoman0]

fuck you are stupid. Im thankful everyday I didn't grow up with your life experiences because shit you are dumb.

Don't blame him, he's just a parrot.

 

[OutHouse]

A 250 lb cop should have little trouble getting a 150 lb teenager on the ground and in handcuffs.

sure if there are no rules. but there are and that 250 pound cop can not chicken wing a 150 pound guy into cuffs.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

fuck you are stupid. Im thankful everyday I didn't grow up with your life experiences because shit you are dumb.

Scott Pruitt, head of the EPA