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D50 - Does it support wireless flash?

Muse

Muse

Lifer
Reading Scott Kelby's Digital Photography (book 2) the idea comes across strong and clear that pop-up flash is the work of the devil. So, I figure that in getting my first DSLR I should look toward external flash capability. Wireless seems worthwhile, just to eliminate that cable. Kelby's book seems to be saying that with Canon you have to buy a $200 accessory to work wireless flash, being the gismo that fits in the shoe atop the camera. With Nikon, he says, you just enable it in the menus with a setting for the pop-up flash to squirt a blip of light that the external flash picks up and fires from. Well, that's what I perceive from his explanations in the first chapter.

Is it true that the D50 doesn't support this? Does it mean that for an entry level DSLR I'm limited to the D70 series or D80? Reason I mention the D50 is that I'm looking at a used one.
 
No, you need a D70 for wireless flash (which is fantastic BTW).
 
Originally posted by: jpeyton
No, you need a D70 for wireless flash (which is fantastic BTW).
Click to expand...

Isn't it possible to attach a SU-800 or SB-600 to the hotshoe and trigger the SB-800 remotely?

I'm not saying its any more feasible than just getting a D70/D80 or higher with built in Remote Commander, just wondering if it is possible with TTL metering.
 
Originally posted by: twistedlogic
Originally posted by: jpeyton
No, you need a D70 for wireless flash (which is fantastic BTW).
Click to expand...

Isn't it possible to attach a SU-800 or SB-600 to the hotshoe and trigger the SB-800 remotely?

I'm not saying its any more feasible than just getting a D70/D80 or higher with built in Remote Commander, just wondering if it is possible with TTL metering.
Click to expand...
You can attach an SB-800 or SU-800 to the hotshoe and do wireless. An SB-600 cannot be used as a commander.
 
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: twistedlogic
Originally posted by: jpeyton
No, you need a D70 for wireless flash (which is fantastic BTW).
Click to expand...

Isn't it possible to attach a SU-800 or SB-600 to the hotshoe and trigger the SB-800 remotely?

I'm not saying its any more feasible than just getting a D70/D80 or higher with built in Remote Commander, just wondering if it is possible with TTL metering.
Click to expand...
You can attach an SB-800 or SU-800 to the hotshoe and do wireless. An SB-600 cannot be used as a commander.
Click to expand...

Please indulge a newbie. You guys have left me behind here. You're saying a D70/D80 or higher (I suppose being D90 when it comes out or the current crop of higher level Nikons) have "Remote Commander" and thus support wireless but that wireless is possible another way with the SB-800 or SU-800? Also, what does TTL metering have to do with it?
 
Originally posted by: Heidfirst
fyi all Sony DSLRs support wireless flash out of the box & you can pick up a new A200 cheap.
Click to expand...

Imaging-Resource says it has a "proprietary flash hotshoe." I guess this means I'd be limited in my choice of external flash devices.

External, proprietary flash hot-shoe for Sony accessory flash units

Imaging-Resource review
 
Nikon has their "Creative Lighting System", abbreviated CLS, which includes a wireless flash capability.
Master units include the SB-800, SB-900, SU-800, D70, D70s, D80, D200, and D300. The SB-800, SB-900, and SU-800 can control three remote groups, while the built-in camera flashes may control fewer ones and may be locked to a specific channel; consult your camera's user guide for specifics.
Slave units include the SB-600, SB-800, and SB-900.

I own a D50 and an SB-800. In a pinch if I need wireless flash, I set the SB-800 to "SU-4" mode, where it fires at a preset intensity whenever it sees a flash go off from any camera. However, you must disable TTL flash or use Flash Value Lock on your master unit in SU-4 mode because the slave flash fires when it sees the TTL metering pre-flash instead of firing at the primary exposure flash a split-second later.

My next three upgrades will probably be an SB-600 for remote use, an SC-29 to move my existing SB-800 off-camera, and a D90 when it's hopefully announced at Photokina in September. So, hopefully I can dispense some actual user feedback at the end of the year, along with taking actual photos of course. 🙂
 
Originally posted by: ivan2
ahh, one more reason to switch =/
Click to expand...

IIRC Canon and Sony have wireless flash systems, but I have absolutely zero idea how they work. Can any Canon or Sony shooters chime in here? I'm curious.
 
Originally posted by: Heidfirst
fyi all Sony DSLRs support wireless flash out of the box & you can pick up a new A200 cheap.
Click to expand...

That A200 looks tempting. The Imaging-Resource review makes it look like a great choice but several posters in the First DSLR recommendations thread had serious misgivings about its high ISO performance, specifically where JPEGs are concerned. At least for starters I will be shooting JPEGs. The Imaging-Resource review (I read it) seemed to say that the high ISO performance of the A200 is actually pretty good. Maybe they didn't get down to the nitty gritty or glossed over some things. I'm going to have to read that other review carefully:

DCResource review

Your comment in that thread was: Noise, detail & sensitivity are related & Sony's current approach typically gives better IQ at the ISOs that most people use (<800) at the cost of being not so good at those that relatively few use. I don't know what my usage patterns will be, I'm just trying to make a choice I will be happy with and not regret.
 
Originally posted by: soydios

IIRC Canon and Sony have wireless flash systems, but I have absolutely zero idea how they work. Can any Canon or Sony shooters chime in here? I'm curious.
Click to expand...

I'm probably not the best person to answer as I never use flash but I'll try to give you a start & some links to further your research.
People on boards like the DPReview Sony SLR forum & Dyxum.com will be able to give you better answers.


The Minolta/Sony system uses the camera's built in flash for control http://www.friedmanarchives.com/flash.htm.
(bear in mind that article is a couple of years old now & it's an improving/moving target e.g. I'm pretty sure that the new Sony HVL-F58AM allows for some things that previous Minolta/Sony flashguns didn't).

Originally posted by: Muse
Imaging-Resource says it has a "proprietary flash hotshoe." I guess this means I'd be limited in my choice of external flash devices.
Click to expand...

afaik the Minolta/Sony hotshoe isn't proprietary but is in fact an open standard but for some reason they were the only people to actually implement it.
http://keppler.popphoto.com/bl...07/01/shoe_fetish.html

You can get dedicated flashes for Minolta/Sony from other manufacturers like Metz & Sigma.
You can also get adapters to allow for standard hotshoe equipped flashes to fit onto the Minolta/Sony mount & vice versa.
This also means that it is possible to use other wireless flash control systems (poppers?).


Other than for extreme pixel peeping you aren't likely to notice any difference between IQ of any of the current equivalent spec. DSLRS used with equivalent quality lenses - they are all good.

As for ISO1600 other than just playing to see what it was like I have used it exactly twice in 25 years plus of using SLRs. Once on a wet & blustery late afternoon last December (it gets dark here ~3PM then) when I actually gave up due to the weather & once the other night (~11PM> ) at the Edinburgh Tattoo (& to be strictly accurate I used 800ISO +1 exp. compensation then because on the A700 some extra NR kicks in if set to 1600 or more).
Now, I am perfectly willing to believe that I am atypical but I don't believe that the majority of people really use ISO 1600 at all regularly (for balance there will of course at the other end of the spectrum be some people who specialise in fields that require it almost all the time).
If you are going to get serious about your photography you will almost certainly end up shooting RAW & post processing & then it will become a non-issue.
 
Originally posted by: soydios

IIRC Canon and Sony have wireless flash systems, but I have absolutely zero idea how they work. Can any Canon or Sony shooters chime in here? I'm curious.
Click to expand...

Canon's command light, the 580EX, costs 300 bucks...
 
Originally posted by: ivan2
Originally posted by: soydios

IIRC Canon and Sony have wireless flash systems, but I have absolutely zero idea how they work. Can any Canon or Sony shooters chime in here? I'm curious.
Click to expand...

Canon's command light, the 580EX, costs 300 bucks...
Click to expand...

Now that's the kind of thing that has me thinking the Sony A200 makes sense. I think it can be set up with wireless flash on it for around $150 using the Sony HVL-F36AM Digital Camera Flash. There may be better solutions using 3rd party flash.
 
Originally posted by: Muse
Originally posted by: ivan2
Originally posted by: soydios

IIRC Canon and Sony have wireless flash systems, but I have absolutely zero idea how they work. Can any Canon or Sony shooters chime in here? I'm curious.
Click to expand...

Canon's command light, the 580EX, costs 300 bucks...
Click to expand...

Now that's the kind of thing that has me thinking the Sony A200 makes sense. I think it can be set up with wireless flash on it for around $150 using the Sony HVL-F36AM Digital Camera Flash. There may be better solutions using 3rd party flash.
Click to expand...

The SB-800 costs $300 too. And the new SB-900 costs $500! I really don't see much that the SB-900 offers over the SB-800. Plus I don't think that the SB-800 UI is that bad; it gets the job done.
 
Originally posted by: soydios
The SB-800 costs $300 too. And the new SB-900 costs $500! I really don't see much that the SB-900 offers over the SB-800. Plus I don't think that the SB-800 UI is that bad; it gets the job done.
Click to expand...

Well with Nikon you don't need a $300 light for the auto mode to work on the slaves, because that's built in. Canon has similar blip of light thing, except to get it you have to buy a master light (or that 200 dollar ST- whatever unit).

It really depends on how good with lighting you are, since if you put the optical slaves in manual mode any light can set them off, but the down side is that it loses TTL on all lights and everything goes manual...
 
My attention has turned to the Pentax K200D, also the Sony A200. I think the HVL-F36AM and the HVL-F42AM would work with the Sony but haven't been able to find any info on what sort of external flash I might want to get if I get the Pentax. The Pentax is supposed to support wireless flash, but I have no clue what or how. How can I find out? Does anyone know?
 
Originally posted by: ivan2
Originally posted by: soydios

IIRC Canon and Sony have wireless flash systems, but I have absolutely zero idea how they work. Can any Canon or Sony shooters chime in here? I'm curious.
Click to expand...

Canon's command light, the 580EX, costs 300 bucks...
Click to expand...

They have a ST-E2 flash commander for less.
 
Originally posted by: Heidfirst
Originally posted by: Muse
I think the HVL-F36AM and the HVL-F42AM would work with the Sony
Click to expand...
they will, also the (dearer) F56AM (again just being replaced by >) & new F58AM.
Click to expand...

Which of these supports horizontal swivel?

Replaced by what?

Do I really have to spend over $300 US to get wireless flash that swivels? My researching of this for Canon, Nikon, Pentax and Sony suggests this may be true. I'm trying to not push $1000 for an "introductory" DSLR system with desirable features but am not sure it's possible without going used.
 
Nikon has the SB-600 which comes in at about $200 with a diffuser dome. The Canon 430EX is about $275 with a diffuser dome.
 
Originally posted by: soydios
Nikon has the SB-600 which comes in at about $200 with a diffuser dome. The Canon 430EX is about $275 with a diffuser dome.
Click to expand...

Don't they require an additional expensive component in order to implement wireless? That's what I gathered, while the Pentax K200D and Sony A200/A300/A350 do not.
 
Have you considered wireless flash triggers?

PocketWizards are king, but they're super expensive.

Cactus V2's are really cheap, but they're also a little unreliable. They do work though. I tried out a set just to play around with wireless flash. The nice thing about triggers is the separate flash units don't need to "see" the flash trigger to fire (Nikon's CLS system requires the slave flash units to see the flash from the master). However, you have to control everything manually (no TTL and no ability to control flash power levels through any "master" flash). For the price ($30) and for someone like me who doesn't know anything and just wants to mess around with things for now, they're pretty worth it.

AlienBees CyberSync are fairly recent developments. They're supposed to be a mid-level option.
 
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