soccerballtux
Lifer
- Dec 30, 2004
- 12,553
- 2
- 76
Yeah,the SP0 version was.
even SP3 was miles faster than Vista/Patched Windows 7
Yeah,the SP0 version was.
even SP3 was miles faster than Vista/Patched Windows 7
I payed $220 for my 4C/8T Xeon E3 at Microcenter :thumbsup: Sure not 8 real cores but I'm liking my decision more an more everyday, bring on DX12!
Or just wait an see what AMD releases for Zen cuz you better bet they will have 8+ core offerings. If Zen is as good as AMD is making it out to be an 8 core Zen might blow a 4 core i5 out of the water with DX12 games, and likely be close to your $200 price point.
If you have 4 cores, and each core is 2-3x more powerful than each console core, you can put 2-3x as many threads on that core and see no degradation of performance (a simplified example, but mostly true).
Given the same overhead 6 threads running on 6 xbox one cores would run significantly faster on a Sandy Bridge 2500k overclocked at 4.2 ghz. Probably faster even at stock.
If you have 4 cores, and each core is 2-3x more powerful than each console core,
That is true only if you have something running in the CPU alone.
example, game engine 6 threads.
Fast Quad Core CPU,
Cycle 1 : CPU Thread - Thread - Thread - Thread
Cycle 2 : CPU Thread - Thread
Cycle 3 : GPU
Slower 6-core CPU
Cycle 1 : CPU Thread - Thread - Thread - Thread - thread - thread
Cycle 2 : GPU
There is still a scaling penalty. And it doesnt work that way.
Just look at the API test.
Yes let's look at that,
first of something very basic,cpus need hundreds of cycles to do the most basic stuff,that's why we have giga(giga=1 billion) hertz(one cycle per hertz) cpus.
Now let's say,for arguments sake,that you have a quad with exactly double the core speed of the sixcore.
While the hexa does 6*thread=6 units of work the quad will do 4*thread*2=8 units of work,in each cycle.
Slower 6-core CPU
Hundreds of Cycles : CPU Thread*1 - Thread*1 - Thread*1 - Thread*1 - thread*1 - thread*1
Hundreds of Cycles : GPU
Fast Quad Core CPU,
Hundreds of Cycles : CPU Thread*2 - Thread*2 - Thread*2 - Thread*2
Hundreds of Cycles : GPU
The quad will need ~30% less cycles to reach the point where it has enough stuff to start sending it to the vga.
And that's if there are actually 6 threads to be run all the time,if there are only 4 the hexa looses another ~30%.
I never said that you could.You cannot have more than one Thread per Core per Cycle.
It's not a matter of need but a matter of if the vga(or any other component) will limit the core at a lower speed.You also assume that the faster Core will do 2x the work all the time. Not all threads need 2x the performance.
No you don't.The faster Core does the same work vs the slower core in less time, it doesnt do 2x more work per cycle. In order to do more work per cycle you need an extra core.
You cannot have more than one Thread per Core per Cycle. You also assume that the faster Core will do 2x the work all the time. Not all threads need 2x the performance.
The faster Core does the same work vs the slower core in less time, it doesnt do 2x more work per cycle. In order to do more work per cycle you need an extra core.
"Perfect 100% thread scaling with a constant 6 threads per clock for FX-6xxx whilst an i5 will only have enough threads to load 4 cores half the time, and every instruction takes only one CPU cycle" is not merely over-simplified, it's completely backwards to the point of being totally broken. You only have to look at per core-loading on your average game to see overall CPU usage is often as low as 33-55% per FX core on hex & octo core CPU's (vs your mythical '100% on every clock' example). Overall that FX-6300 has total average 43% CPU usage, the FX-8350 has 46% and the FX-4300 has 68%, ie, a CPU which has barely half the IPC of a Skylake is still only being half-utilized, showing how bad thread-scaling is in most games after the first 4 cores. You think that's going to "bottleneck" an i5 giving FX-6300's magically higher fps because of +50% "MOAR CORES" when an FX-8350 vs an i5-6600K in 100% thread-loaded, core-utilized x264 encoding work out the same under 100% load vs 100% load scenarios? Any game which manages to cripple an i5 to the point of being unplayable by quadrupling the existing CPU workload will do exactly the same thing to AMD's current consoles, and FX & APU lineups.Its over simplify but you get the picture.
Lol no,it's two athlon 5150s and the 6 cores are hardly any faster than the slowest haswell celeron.Most PC games are being held back far more by consoles whose 8x notebook cores (6x usable) combined are barely on par with the slowest Haswell i3.
I never said that you could.
No you don't.
It's like reading a book,do you need an extra head to be able to read twice as fast as someone else?
No, you just need to be faster.
If a core has twice the speed it will (be able to ) do twice the work.
what really surprises me is Microsoft not stepping up to bat to come up with an even more bloated OS.
Windows 7 is back to the speed of Vista, once you install the service packs. Rinse and repeat with W10...
personally, I'd be happy to have an XP64 install. XP was so fast...
xp up to service pack 1 was fast; service pack 2; made it about as fast as vista and 3 made it slower. *not that vista was terribly slow*
7 is faster than vista to a point; and 8 is faster than 7; same with 8.1. 10 is faster than 8.1.
but with repairs and services packs you do get some slow down
You said Threads*2 per cycles. That means 2*Threads per core per cycle, which cannot be done.
Reading a book is a serial job, you need to read one page at the time, much like DX-11. So the faster your single Core performance the faster you read each Book page.
What DX-12 will allow is to simultaneously use 6-8 or more Cores (example with the 6 lights on the Video). It will be like reading 6-8 Book pages simultaneously but at a lower speed. That is way faster than having to read a single page at 2x times faster.
Also, you mistake the difference of work done in time units (example, over 60 secs) vs work done per CPU cycle.
Not only that, but you forgot that in games you also have the GPU. As was showcased in the Video, in DX-12 you can simultaneously use 6-8 or more cores to compute multiple draw call simultaneously to feed the GPU with more work per cycle.
That means that if you have 6 draw calls and each draw call needs one cycle, then the Quad core will need 2 cycles when the 6-core will only need one cycle.
Now, If the 6-Core CPU needs two cycles for each Draw Call (that means the Quad Core single Core performance is 2x faster), then the 6-Core CPU will also need two cycles to feed the GPU.
let me demonstrate,
Quad core 2x Faster per Core than 6-Core (Draw calls per Core per Cycle)
Cycle 1 : CPU ----> Draw Call - Draw Call - Draw Call - Draw Call
Cycle 2 : CPU ----> Draw Call - Draw Call
Cycle 3 : GPU
6-Core CPU
Cycle 1 : CPU ----> Draw Call - Draw Call - Draw Call - Draw Call -Draw Call - Draw Call
Cycle 2 : CPU ----> Draw Call - Draw Call - Draw Call - Draw Call -Draw Call - Draw Call
Cycle 3 : GPU
That is also very simplistic but i believe it is enough.
You cannot have more than one Thread per Core per Cycle. You also assume that the faster Core will do 2x the work all the time. Not all threads need 2x the performance.
The faster Core does the same work vs the slower core in less time, it doesnt do 2x more work per cycle. In order to do more work per cycle you need an extra core.
You said Threads*2 per cycles. That means 2*Threads per core per cycle, which cannot be done.
Also, you mistake the difference of work done in time units (example, over 60 secs) vs work done per CPU cycle.
Not only that, but you forgot that in games you also have the GPU. As was showcased in the Video, in DX-12 you can simultaneously use 6-8 or more cores to compute multiple draw call simultaneously to feed the GPU with more work per cycle.
That means that if you have 6 draw calls and each draw call needs one cycle, then the Quad core will need 2 cycles when the 6-core will only need one cycle.
Now, If the 6-Core CPU needs two cycles for each Draw Call (that means the Quad Core single Core performance is 2x faster), then the 6-Core CPU will also need two cycles to feed the GPU.
let me demonstrate,
That is also very simplistic but i believe it is enough.
Like I didn't explain it.You said Threads*2 per cycles. That means 2*Threads per core per cycle, which cannot be done.