D*mn, this is one of the things I hate about being a manager.

[LunarRay]

IamElectro,
It seems that the owner of small businesses never bother to educate themselves beyond their own field.. I started out in big companies and went into small business to help out a friend... stayed in small business because it is a world of difference in the environment... not in the job.. The only real difference is less zeros on the numbers... a family environment is much more to my liking..

To have a work load and to demand a staff cut means some nut is loose on the wheel... Well.. I'm not there so I can only imagine what must have preceeded this meeting.. I'm very opinionated... and when in business I've rendered mine it is with the expectation of debate and a moving toward an objective... I've always operated under MBO ... management by objectives... to cut staff like the thread poster indicated is just foreign to me... of course I'd not be in that company.... long... .. Jeez.. tell me to fire one of my people assumes I ain't the brains to run my own division... good grief... this ticks me off and it isn't even my problem...

Gotta let it go... good luck.. and I'd suggest you update your resume... before you open your mouth and say something dumb..

 

[EvanGeliSt]

Originally posted by: Mani
Good luck in standing up for them. It's not easy to go against the company line and fight for your direct reports...hope it goes well.

ditto dat *salutes to a good boss

 

good luck.. and I'd suggest you update your resume... before you open your mouth and say something dumb..

No kidding, I was going to post the same thing. I admire your courage for standing up for your crew but I would not push the issue. We are currently looking for a IT Dir right now because the last one was canned after 10 years of service because our regional GM did not like his non acceptance of the " Go along and we will get along" attitude for such matters that you are experiencing right now.

 

[IamElectro]

Originally posted by: LunarRay
IamElectro,
It seems that the owner of small businesses never bother to educate themselves beyond their own field.. I started out in big companies and went into small business to help out a friend... stayed in small business because it is a world of difference in the environment... not in the job.. The only real difference is less zeros on the numbers... a family environment is much more to my liking..

To have a work load and to demand a staff cut means some nut is loose on the wheel... Well.. I'm not there so I can only imagine what must have preceeded this meeting.. I'm very opinionated... and when in business I've rendered mine it is with the expectation of debate and a moving toward an objective... I've always operated under MBO ... management by objectives... to cut staff like the thread poster indicated is just foreign to me... of course I'd not be in that company.... long... .. Jeez.. tell me to fire one of my people assumes I ain't the brains to run my own division... good grief... this ticks me off and it isn't even my problem...

Gotta let it go... good luck.. and I'd suggest you update your resume... before you open your mouth and say something dumb..

Again sir I agree with what you are saying like I said I worked for a company like that and did not agree with thier practices as I left them 2 years ago to go back to school. Thier staff cuts were based solely on money and not because a nut was loose on the wheel.
My former bosses attitude was that he could cut the hourly employees and have the salary employees pick up the slack. Until things were just about out of hand. This guy only saw the bottom line and accepted no excuses. Needless to say this place went through employees like there was no tommorow. They would hire as fast as they could get rid of people to avoid paying benifits or what ever else would cost him extra cash out of pocket. He just like to look like the good guy and pass the buck onto his subordinates. I dont agree with firing people just because his profits were down in the previous month it would make me sick and does now thinking about it. When I worked for this place I needed the money pretty bad or I would not have been there the year that I was.

 

[kermalou]

be careful, you might be next................

 

[orion7144]

Originally posted by: kermalou
be careful, you might be next................

 

[LS20]

sorry man, that sucks. good luck.

if all fails blame it on the riaa.

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

If the work is still there just tell him it wont be getting done with less employees, and that therefor customers will need to take their business elsewhere instead if they want something done. Cutting down on personel only works if there is not enough work for everyone, or if there are slackers. Maybe they should look at all the people wasting their time posting on ATOT instead?

Accountant: "Hey, that person makes a lot of money while not being manager! Let's get rid of him to cut down on spending!"

 

If the work is still there just tell him it wont be getting done with less employees, and that therefor customers will need to take their business elsewhere instead if they want something done. Cutting down on personel only works if there is not enough work for everyone, or if there are slackers. Maybe they should look at all the people wasting their time posting on ATOT instead?

You don?t get it; they don?t give two Sh@ts about your excuses why the work is not getting done. Unless Senior Management really values your opinion, your truly f@cked in situations like this.

 

[NetGuySC]

Perhaps, instead of firing someone, maybe you can talk your employees and GM into working everyone a 4 day work week or perhaps everyone take a pay cut and 4 day work week to get the savings that they want.

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: DrJohnMarkway

If the work is still there just tell him it wont be getting done with less employees, and that therefor customers will need to take their business elsewhere instead if they want something done. Cutting down on personel only works if there is not enough work for everyone, or if there are slackers. Maybe they should look at all the people wasting their time posting on ATOT instead?

You don?t get it; they don?t give two Sh@ts about your excuses why the work is not getting done. Unless Senior Management really values your opinion, your truly f@cked in situations like this.

Unless they got a dumb fvck as GM he should be able to figure out that keeping existing customers happy is better than losing them. And if they do have a dumb fvck as GM there is a simple solution: collectively go looking for new jobs. Amazing how much managers are willing to give in sometimes when they otherwise have to explain to a customer that there is no one with the knowledge or skills to support their brand new products anymore.

 

[propellerhead]

Are you sure you're not crossing some ethical or legal boundary by discussing this in a public forum? After all, you are talking about the careers of three individuals. I would think twice about having the name of the company posted.

 

[LordRaiden]

Originally posted by: Rufio

and i think all of us want to know, but is Descartes really one of your employees?

Not that I'm aware of. Unless one of my guys is using a nic on here that I don't know about. Oh well. I'll find out today.

 

[J Heartless Slick]

Originally posted by: LordRaiden
Got asked to stay for a late night meeting tonight to talk with the owner and the GM. Nothing unusual. We've done plenty of late night 11pm brainstorming sessions. For some reason most of the managers seem more alert near the end of the day than at the beginning anyways. Well, tonights meeting was very brief. They came in, told us to pick a specified number of people out of each department and get rid of them. My jaw almost hit the floor. I've gotten rid of all the undesirables in my department and my team is lean, mean (in a good way) and very professional and they know their jobs inside and out and we run circles around the other departments for our department scores and with half the number of people of the next largest department.

What's even worse is on my sheet it not only says that I gotta let 3 people go, but the three that the owner suggested were my 3 best people!! Man, this sucks wind bad. I've only got 15 people total and we're perty loaded now with just the 15 of us, even with me picking up the slack where I can. (I work as a tech/IT manager for Michael Industries Systems for those who didn't know) This really, really sucks. It's not like the remaining 12 people can't find some creative way to pick up the slack, it's just that our productivity will go down because of this because each person will have a bigger work load.

I wasn't going to argue it right there in front of the owner tonight because he was very...well, grumpy tonight and looked like he had just talked to his accountant who probubly told him to cut costs starting with firing employees. I'm guessing at this since I don't know where he was at before this, but it's the same look he gets every time the chief accountant comes and talks to him. I am going to stand up and fight for my guys tomorrow in front of the GM. Since the GM is the person directly above me in the food chain I'm going to talk to him tomorrow and see if I can't somehow keep all my guys. Gah, I hate this. If I have to tell these guys that they're being let go because MIS needs to save money, I think I'm gonna be sick. I really hope I don't have to do this. My problem is the next person above the GM is the owner and he DOES want me to get rid of 3 people. My top 3 specifically. Oh well, time to suit up for battle.

Hey, guys. If you're reading ATOT tonight, don't worry. I'm gonna fight for ya. IF you don't see this tonight, well, obviously I'll catch you tomorrow.

That is why they pay you the big bucks...

 

[LordRaiden]

Originally posted by: DrJohnMarkway

good luck.. and I'd suggest you update your resume... before you open your mouth and say something dumb..

No kidding, I was going to post the same thing. I admire your courage for standing up for your crew but I would not push the issue. We are currently looking for a IT Dir right now because the last one was canned after 10 years of service because our regional GM did not like his non acceptance of the " Go along and we will get along" attitude for such matters that you are experiencing right now.

I don't like superiors that follow that kind of attitude. The "I'm always right." attitude drives me buggy. I quit my last job because my boss would never believe he was wrong until he had made a complete and total mess of things, then blame it on the staff. Sheesh. Oh well. IT at least taught me never to be that way.

 

[LordRaiden]

Originally posted by: propellerhead
Are you sure you're not crossing some ethical or legal boundary by discussing this in a public forum? After all, you are talking about the careers of three individuals. I would think twice about having the name of the company posted.

Well, maybe an ethical boundry, but nothing legal. That's for certain. Besides, I never listed the three guys who I was being told to let go.

Besides, I've had time to sleep on this and I'm starting to wonder if there isn't more to this whole thing than meets the eye. Oh well. We'll find out soon enough.

 

I don't like superiors that follow that kind of attitude. The "I'm always right." attitude drives me buggy. I quit my last job because my boss would never believe he was wrong until he had made a complete and total mess of things, then blame it on the staff. Sheesh. Oh well. IT at least taught me never to be that way.

I am behind you 1000% Unfortunately incompetence also exists at the top levels also. If you do end up taking a stand over this and end up walking or getting fired, Make sure you keep your cool and tell Senior management and the owner how it really is. They may change thier mind and see the error of their ways and give you what you want. The owner might also take it to heart a couple of days later and hire you back.

 

[Czar]

this blows, expecialy that is so often the case that one department can loose 6 people and another 0 people and yet both are asked to fire 3 people

hope you give them hell and I hope it goes well for you and your team

 

[Sundog]

Good luck, keep us posted.

 

[Rufio]

Originally posted by: Sundog


Good luck, keep us posted.

 

[MaxDepth]

You need to show ROI (return on investment) for your group. You need to show where your people stack up against other departments. If you want to keep them show (in this order):
a)what losses will be incurred by losing staff
b)where staff are better at what they do than other departments
c)lose staff to other departments (move not fire)

Does the owner work in the company? By that I mean, come up with the product line, develop materials, etc. (beside just managing the whole.

 

[poopaskoopa]

and i think all of us want to know, but is Descartes really one of your employees?

 

[Rufio]

Originally posted by: poopaskoopa

and i think all of us want to know, but is Descartes really one of your employees?

he already answered it.

 

[AgaBoogaBoo]

How'd it go?

 

[LordRaiden]

See my other post.

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=38&threadid=1104053