D*mn, this is one of the things I hate about being a manager.

[LordRaiden]

Got asked to stay for a late night meeting tonight to talk with the owner and the GM. Nothing unusual. We've done plenty of late night 11pm brainstorming sessions. For some reason most of the managers seem more alert near the end of the day than at the beginning anyways. Well, tonights meeting was very brief. They came in, told us to pick a specified number of people out of each department and get rid of them. My jaw almost hit the floor. I've gotten rid of all the undesirables in my department and my team is lean, mean (in a good way) and very professional and they know their jobs inside and out and we run circles around the other departments for our department scores and with half the number of people of the next largest department.

What's even worse is on my sheet it not only says that I gotta let 3 people go, but the three that the owner suggested were my 3 best people!! Man, this sucks wind bad. I've only got 15 people total and we're perty loaded now with just the 15 of us, even with me picking up the slack where I can. (I work as a tech/IT manager for Michael Industries Systems for those who didn't know) This really, really sucks. It's not like the remaining 12 people can't find some creative way to pick up the slack, it's just that our productivity will go down because of this because each person will have a bigger work load.

I wasn't going to argue it right there in front of the owner tonight because he was very...well, grumpy tonight and looked like he had just talked to his accountant who probubly told him to cut costs starting with firing employees. I'm guessing at this since I don't know where he was at before this, but it's the same look he gets every time the chief accountant comes and talks to him. I am going to stand up and fight for my guys tomorrow in front of the GM. Since the GM is the person directly above me in the food chain I'm going to talk to him tomorrow and see if I can't somehow keep all my guys. Gah, I hate this. If I have to tell these guys that they're being let go because MIS needs to save money, I think I'm gonna be sick. I really hope I don't have to do this. My problem is the next person above the GM is the owner and he DOES want me to get rid of 3 people. My top 3 specifically. Oh well, time to suit up for battle.

Hey, guys. If you're reading ATOT tonight, don't worry. I'm gonna fight for ya. IF you don't see this tonight, well, obviously I'll catch you tomorrow.

 

[Angrymarshmello]

That sucks is all I can really say

 

[Descartes]

Considering I'm one of your employees, and noted as being your *best* employee, I guess I know I won't have a job soon!! I guess it's better to get an early heads up, eh?

 

[djheater]

Gah, the pains are industry goes through.

I am sad for you my IT brethren


:brokenheart::brokenheart::brokenheart::brokenheart::brokenheart::brokenheart:

 

[KEV1N]

!

 

[her209]

Eak.

 

[AlienCraft]

I feel it, too.
It sux being a boss sometimes.
Especially when they arbitrarily pick who they want to let go.
Any idea if those three are at the top of the pay scale?
That may have something to do with it.
Sorry to hear this, I guess that "economic recovery" is taking longer than expected, huh?
Fight the good fight, but pick your battles and don't lose your own job.
< Didn't listen to that advice last year, now I work for me.

 

[ThaGrandCow]

Originally posted by: Descartes
Considering I'm one of your employees, and noted as being your *best* employee, I guess I know I won't have a job soon!! I guess it's better to get an early heads up, eh?

Ah damn man, talk about a bad way to get your pink slip. Fired over ATOT... a new low

 

[Zim Hosein]

 

[LordRaiden]

hehe. I personally think this is a bunch of BS. If the owner is so bent on saving costs he needs to look elsewhere. You can't just fire people every time you have a money crunch. I could suggest a lot of great ways to save cash in this company. However I'm sure nobody will listen to me because the people who make those decisions don't want to get rid of those things (*ehem, company cars, personal unlimited expence accounts, free plane flights anywhere, etc*) and swear that they need them. Yet I have the same rights to use those same items and yet I don't. I feel that instead of spending that money on myself for my own pleasure, I'm going to invest it back into my employees. Believe me, they're more than happy to see me do it. Happy employees are hard working employees.

Do you realize I have not had a single person call in sick in over a year?? I think the total days missed this year stands at 2 between all my employees. The closest group has 15 days missed this year in their department. I also don't have a single person tardy this year either, or last year. In fact most everyone shows up early and sometimes works late.

 

[LordRaiden]

Originally posted by: AlienCraft
I feel it, too.
It sux being a boss sometimes.
Especially when they arbitrarily pick who they want to let go.
Any idea if those three are at the top of the pay scale?
That may have something to do with it.
Sorry to hear this, I guess that "economic recovery" is taking longer than expected, huh?
Fight the good fight, but pick your battles and don't lose your own job.
< Didn't listen to that advice last year, now I work for me.

No, they're not at the top of the scale. One of them is, but the other two are like 5th and 7th on the pay scale. I think it's more of a personal vendeta. The owner has never liked those 3 from day one.

PS: I won't say their names because it's not set in stone yet that they have to be let go. So no point getting them all worried. Not until I can no longer expect to win my fight and am forced to do it.

 

[IamElectro]

Originally posted by: LordRaiden
I am going to stand up and fight for my guys tomorrow in front of the GM. Since the GM is the person directly above me in the food chain I'm going to talk to him tomorrow and see if I can't somehow keep all my guys. Gah, I hate this. If I have to tell these guys that they're being let go because MIS needs to save money, I think I'm gonna be sick. I really hope I don't have to do this. My problem is the next person above the GM is the owner and he DOES want me to get rid of 3 people. My top 3 specifically. Oh well, time to suit up for battle.

Hey, guys. If you're reading ATOT tonight, don't worry. I'm gonna fight for ya. IF you don't see this tonight, well, obviously I'll catch you tomorrow.

Just a piece of advice from a person who has been in your shoes before.
Standing up for your team is the right and fair thing to do but, you better hope for when the GM goes to the owner and disscusses your views with him that the owner does not suggest getting rid of you instead.

 

[AgaBoogaBoo]

What about cuts for everyone instead of firing those 3 people? I think that if the cuts weren't very bad, they wouldn't mind it. Or maybe the guys who were to be fired, take a larger cut than the rest, but thats your call.

I don't know what day to day work is like and if you all enjoy your work or not, but if the owner doesn't give up, talk about cuts for everyone if like atleast 50% anonymously agree to them in a vote rather than firing those people...

 

[Rufio]

aw man...fired over AT!!

that sucks dude.....
good luck with this!

i had to fire some people, but they sucked so i was happy to do so.

 

[LordRaiden]

Originally posted by: Rufio
aw man...fired over AT!!

that sucks dude.....
good luck with this!

i had to fire some people, but they sucked so i was happy to do so.

Yeah, I already fired all the bad ones. So all I got left is the good ones.

 

[Rufio]

maybe other teams have some more slackers that the other managers would love to get rid of...did you talk to the other managers?

or, maybe you hsould tell your boss to put the three best on a short vacation, and they can see how crazy and unproductive your team becomes?

i think these thoughts need refinement -- i'm just throwing them out as i type.

 

[LordRaiden]

Hey, those are good ideas. I apreciate that. I'm definately going to hang our departmental stats in his face tomorrow and those ideas you guys have given me are some good ideas to do some bargaining with.

I'll let you guys know how things come out tomorrow. If you've got more ideas I can use for tomorrow, please, share them.

 

[AlienCraft]

Originally posted by: LordRaiden
hehe. I personally think this is a bunch of BS. If the owner is so bent on saving costs he needs to look elsewhere. You can't just fire people every time you have a money crunch. I could suggest a lot of great ways to save cash in this company. However I'm sure nobody will listen to me because the people who make those decisions don't want to get rid of those things (*ehem, company cars, personal unlimited expence accounts, free plane flights anywhere, etc*) and swear that they need them. Yet I have the same rights to use those same items and yet I don't. I feel that instead of spending that money on myself for my own pleasure, I'm going to invest it back into my employees. Believe me, they're more than happy to see me do it. Happy employees are hard working employees.

Do you realize I have not had a single person call in sick in over a year?? I think the total days missed this year stands at 2 between all my employees. The closest group has 15 days missed this year in their department. I also don't have a single person tardy this year either, or last year. In fact most everyone shows up early and sometimes works late.

Those are very good points you bring up. Use those. Also, what about cutting their schedule to PT status?
Think creatively. I liked the idea of spreading the cuts out amongst the rest of the team so everyone shares the burden.
Although, your statement that the owner doesn't like them may overrule any rational arguement you can propose.
Take it easy....
Allen

 

[Rufio]

i dont konw how this will fare, but talk to your team about it?

prepare them for the worst? but tell them your plan? or see what they can come up with?

Myabe don't tell them who is getting fired, but say that management wants to let a few of them go, but u are going to fight for them. ask for their help?

and i think all of us want to know, but is Descartes really one of your employees?

another idea...maybe you should crash all the systems and then magically have your team save the day! haahhaha seriously that would be awesome

i know if you can come up w/a plan to save $$$$, they have no other reason to fire them...maybe talk to the other managers or think of ways to save money? like cut certain Perks in your team? i don't konw............

 

[Rufio]

antoher idea (i get them as I sit here on Friendster!)

maybe "give" up sick days?

 

[LunarRay]

I am one of those Chief Accountants... well the Controller/CFO actually and only part time now... getting old.., and well... I'm a bit well irritated that the owner would come in and without any rational discussion chop the staff... It makes no sense..
The way to do it is to bring the managers in and discuss the numbers.. have the managers manage to figure out how to remedy the problem... The Controller is only the Cop... the CFO only holds the purse strings... not make line decisions... If you have cash flow..issues or whatever... with a work load and bodies needed what you say befuddles me.. Talk to the Controller.. ask him for whyfors and howcomes... some details into the decision...
It is a reasonable request... ask is it long term or what... you need this info to plan.. to determine who needs to go..etc... for the owner to suggest who should go.. means he knows better than the mgrs who does what etc...

Sorry... but, it seems to be an ill run entity to me.. based on the first post you wrote above..

 

[Rogue]

I have to say that you always, always, always go for the waste first and employees are usually not waste. Implement stricter power management on machines and equipment, cut back on paper and toner usage, shut of lights, curtail trips and/or training, stick with your current hardware for longer rather than upgrade next year or whatever your cycle is. The possibilities are endless. Don't forget to talk worker's comp either or potential lawsuits. Hell, two less copy machines around won't sue you, that's for sure. Cut back on cell phone bills. Manage your long distance calling more closely. Start a coffee fund rather than that expensive outsource coffee stuff. Remove the water cooler(s). There are way too many other things that an organization can do to cut costs, huge costs, than getting rid of employees, especially productive, happy ones. If I were you, I'd come with the thunder in the morning. I'd lay it out. That's a manager's job is to put their butt on the line for their employees. I don't know why, but things like this anger me. I look around me everywhere and see organizations and businesses saying they don't have any money and laying off employees for while they lavish themselves in expensive sundries.

 

[Rufio]

btw, i think you are a pretty cool manager for doing this for your valued employeeds

 

[IamElectro]

Originally posted by: LunarRay
I am one of those Chief Accountants... well the Controller/CFO actually and only part time now... getting old.., and well... I'm a bit well irritated that the owner would come in and without any rational discussion chop the staff... It makes no sense..
The way to do it is to bring the managers in and discuss the numbers.. have the managers manage to figure out how to remedy the problem... The Controller is only the Cop... the CFO only holds the purse strings... not make line decisions... If you have cash flow..issues or whatever... with a work load and bodies needed what you say befuddles me.. Talk to the Controller.. ask him for whyfors and howcomes... some details into the decision...
It is a reasonable request... ask is it long term or what... you need this info to plan.. to determine who needs to go..etc... for the owner to suggest who should go.. means he knows better than the mgrs who does what etc...

Sorry... but, it seems to be an ill run entity to me.. based on the first post you wrote above..

I agree with what your saying I was a GM under an owner who acted in the same maner as the gentlemen decsribed above. He would talk to his accountant and find out the money is not what it used to be and his first assumption would be we have to many employees or they are paid to much so he would have us "Clean House" as he so described it. The first to go would be the ones he felt were paid to much "his attitude was I can always find someone to do the same job for less" and he even felt that it was good to fire a few people every so often as it keeps the rest of them on thier toes. But this always left us with poor morale in the office.
I hate working for people like this because they are never wrong because they own the company and never have to answer to anybody. The worst part about it is when you do as you were told and things got behind or messed up due to the increased workload on the employees it would be your fault. Nothing like a double edged sword.

I feel your pain and have many times befor the best of luck.

 

[Mani]

Good luck in standing up for them. It's not easy to go against the company line and fight for your direct reports...hope it goes well.