Cyanide Salt found in Iraq

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tnitsuj

Diamond Member
May 22, 2003
5,446
0
76
Originally posted by: Hafen
This is a bunch of crap. This a fairly common laboratory reagent, hardly a WMD stockpile. I work for a pharma company and we have tons of far nastier substances sitting in our labs. There are prob at least 50kg of Sodium Azide sitting in this building now (just as poisonous as sodium cyanide, and can form explosives when mixed with metals.) I regularly work with hundreds of liters of acetonitrile (aka cyanomethane [methyl cyanide].) A toxic and highly flammable liquid. And this stuff is relatively safe. Reference standard rooms for drug R&D labs can have substances that are lethal in ug amounts(millioniths of a gram, more than 3 magnitudes of order greater than cyanide.) Are we going to start bombing pharma/chemical companies now?

Hell, my Dad was able to walk into a chemical supply store and easily buy 1 kg of Copper Sulfate because he was told by a guy it could help control the algea in his pond. He didn't even have to show ID, or explain what is was for. 1/4 cup later he had completely sterilized (along with the fish, oops) his entire pond, and a bird who had drunk some of the water. This story is tripe for fools, but I'm not surprised coming from FOX "news."


We also don't know who brought it into the country and when, or if it was produced in Iraq. This could be AQ, or it could have been SH as speculated.
Or they could have just ordered it from Sigma-Aldrich, Fisher, Baker, VWR or a whole host of (American) chemical suppliers for perfectly legitimate uses.

Owned by our own ignorance.
 

Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,389
4,817
136
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Monsanto is killing the world but worry about 7 lb of cyanide in Iraq. Even the aligators have lost their dicks and men under 30 are queer in their thoughts.
When the cyanide is intended for terror, I will worry.
Is Monsanto killing the world or just removing the ability to outsource jobs to South Asia.

this could be a secret plot of bush to support Monsanto just like HB
Actually Monsanto is and has killed scores of Americans. Search Google for Monsanto, Aniston and PCBs. They knowingly poisoned a whole community with PCBs over a period of decades, and did nothing to stop it. Those who did not die suffer deformities, severe birth defects and high rates of cancer. A huge settlement was just reached with Monsanto in the last few months resuling in hundreds of millions of dollars.

EDIT: Its a shame none of the murderers will go to prison. These people are true terrorists.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
12,510
7,597
136
I used to work in a Haz-Waste plant in Tulsa, and over the course of a couple years I worked with probably 1000 pounds of cyanide. Everything from hydrogen cyanide gas, to cyanide in liquid form, to cyanide salt. And actually out of all the chemicals we had out there the cynaide wasn't that bad. Also a company named AirGas produce thousands of pound of Cyanide gas in Tulsa every week.
 

alchemize

Lifer
Mar 24, 2000
11,489
0
0
This is a bunch of crap. This a fairly common laboratory reagent, hardly a WMD stockpile
Umm who, or where in the article, does someone say this is a WMD stockpile?
 

shiner

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
17,116
1
0
Originally posted by: Zorba
I used to work in a Haz-Waste plant in Tulsa, and over the course of a couple years I worked with probably 1000 pounds of cyanide. Everything from hydrogen cyanide gas, to cyanide in liquid form, to cyanide salt. And actually out of all the chemicals we had out there the cynaide wasn't that bad. Also a company named AirGas produce thousands of pound of Cyanide gas in Tulsa every week.
Except when the plant explodes like it did this summer. ;)
 

Ldir

Platinum Member
Jul 23, 2003
2,184
0
0
Originally posted by: Hafen
This is a bunch of crap. This a fairly common laboratory reagent, hardly a WMD stockpile. I work for a pharma company and we have tons of far nastier substances sitting in our labs. There are prob at least 50kg of Sodium Azide sitting in this building now (just as poisonous as sodium cyanide, and can form explosives when mixed with metals.) I regularly work with hundreds of liters of acetonitrile (aka cyanomethane [methyl cyanide].) A toxic and highly flammable liquid. And this stuff is relatively safe. Reference standard rooms for drug R&D labs can have substances that are lethal in ug amounts(millioniths of a gram, more than 3 magnitudes of order greater than cyanide.) Are we going to start bombing pharma/chemical companies now?

Hell, my Dad was able to walk into a chemical supply store and easily buy 1 kg of Copper Sulfate because he was told by a guy it could help control the algea in his pond. He didn't even have to show ID, or explain what is was for. 1/4 cup later he had completely sterilized (along with the fish, oops) his entire pond, and a bird who had drunk some of the water. This story is tripe for fools, but I'm not surprised coming from FOX "news."


We also don't know who brought it into the country and when, or if it was produced in Iraq. This could be AQ, or it could have been SH as speculated.
Or they could have just ordered it from Sigma-Aldrich, Fisher, Baker, VWR or a whole host of (American) chemical suppliers for perfectly legitimate uses.
True. I had a 1 ounce bottle of a cyanide salt that came in an old chemistry set. Copper sulfate sounds familiar too. Dangerous chemicals used to be common. They have many legitimate uses.

edit - I remember. I had two bottles. One was a cyanate and the other a ferrocyanate. One was sodium for sure. I don't remember the other one.

 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
5
0
Originally posted by: alchemize
This is a bunch of crap. This a fairly common laboratory reagent, hardly a WMD stockpile
Umm who, or where in the article, does someone say this is a WMD stockpile?
this is the nasty part of the article which can allow opinions to be formed
The potentially lethal compound was located in what was believed to be the safe house of Abu Musab Zarqawi (search), a poisons specialist described by some U.S. intelligence officials as having been a key link between deposed Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein and the Al Qaeda (search) terror network.

Zarqawi was described as a poisons expert with strong ties to the former Iraqi regime and the terrorist groups Al Qaeda and Ansar al-Islam

When our coalition ousted the Taliban, the Zarqawi network helped establish another poison and explosives training center."
Not WMD, but a scary customer with ties to other nasty people.

 

myusername

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2003
5,046
0
0
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Monsanto is killing the world but worry about 7 lb of cyanide in Iraq. Even the aligators have lost their dicks and men under 30 are queer in their thoughts.
/tangent

Not to draw attention away from the very real and large problem of reproductive deformities of amphibians (the canaries, if you will) - or even in humans (hypospadia on the rise), but the last part has me intrigued .. by "queer" did you mean homosexual? Personally I think the world would be better off with more gay men (I'm being facetious - while the gay guys I know are great, I'm sure there are plenty of jerks of the variety) - but if there's any documentation I'd love to see it .. aside from personal interest, think of the (ironic) political implications ... What Republican would stay in the party if they knew their leaders were trying to turn their sons queer?
 

GoPackGo

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2003
6,309
347
126
Originally posted by: Hafen
This is a bunch of crap. This a fairly common laboratory reagent, hardly a WMD stockpile. I work for a pharma company and we have tons of far nastier substances sitting in our labs. There are prob at least 50kg of Sodium Azide sitting in this building now (just as poisonous as sodium cyanide, and can form explosives when mixed with metals.) I regularly work with hundreds of liters of acetonitrile (aka cyanomethane [methyl cyanide].) A toxic and highly flammable liquid. And this stuff is relatively safe. Reference standard rooms for drug R&D labs can have substances that are lethal in ug amounts(millioniths of a gram, more than 3 magnitudes of order greater than cyanide.) Are we going to start bombing pharma/chemical companies now?

Hell, my Dad was able to walk into a chemical supply store and easily buy 1 kg of Copper Sulfate because he was told by a guy it could help control the algea in his pond. He didn't even have to show ID, or explain what is was for. 1/4 cup later he had completely sterilized (along with the fish, oops) his entire pond, and a bird who had drunk some of the water. This story is tripe for fools, but I'm not surprised coming from FOX "news."


We also don't know who brought it into the country and when, or if it was produced in Iraq. This could be AQ, or it could have been SH as speculated.
Or they could have just ordered it from Sigma-Aldrich, Fisher, Baker, VWR or a whole host of (American) chemical suppliers for perfectly legitimate uses.
This stuff was found in the suspected safehouse of a terrorist....

You know there are many things that could be dangerous in the wrong hands and this is one of them.

Location and intent is everything

 

Witling

Golden Member
Jul 30, 2003
1,448
0
0
Get a grip, group. As pointed out earlier, cyanide has some legitimate uses. Second, the original Fox article is loaded with the usual innuendos. "Is belived to be," "may be," "could be," and "one official said."

Think for a moment. How many stories have you seen where something was discovered and then it proved to be complete bunk. Right now, it the "traitors" at Guantanamo. Their offenses have been reduced to spitting on the sidewalk and jay walking. Remember how many times "probable chemical weapons" have been discovered. These stories are like a baloon going into the razor factory. Big when they go in and small when they come out.

Remember, this is the news industry we're talking about. No, wait, this is Fox News. Remember, this is the entertainment industry we're talking about. But for Alchemize, it's proof.

I notice the post before mine points out it was found in a "suspected safehouse." The prosecution almosts rests. In the FN fiasco -- uh -- I mean story -- the guy is described as a poison specialist. Here's a link to his bio. Chemical and biological warfare, perhaps, but dropping 7 pounds of poison. Bio
 

GoPackGo

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2003
6,309
347
126
Originally posted by: Whitling
Get a grip, group. As pointed out earlier, cyanide has some legitimate uses. Second, the original Fox article is loaded with the usual innuendos. "Is belived to be," "may be," "could be," and "one official said."

Think for a moment. How many stories have you seen where something was discovered and then it proved to be complete bunk. Right now, it the "traitors" at Guantanamo. Their offenses have been reduced to spitting on the sidewalk and jay walking. Remember how many times "probable chemical weapons" have been discovered. These stories are like a baloon going into the razor factory. Big when they go in and small when they come out.

Remember, this is the news industry we're talking about. No, wait, this is Fox News. Remember, this is the entertainment industry we're talking about. But for Alchemize, it's proof.

I notice the post before mine points out it was found in a "suspected safehouse." The prosecution almosts rests. In the FN fiasco -- uh -- I mean story -- the guy is described as a poison specialist. Here's a link to his bio. Chemical and biological warfare, perhaps, but dropping 7 pounds of poison. Bio
This was stuff found last month and tested...not something found today.
 

alchemize

Lifer
Mar 24, 2000
11,489
0
0
You are right Whitling. It was the nefarious fox news channel. We should just assume it was propaganda. We should not believe that Al-Qaida would ever possess or use poisons or chemicals against civilians. Nothing to see here, move along.

How's that view from 6" under the sand?
 

Shad0hawK

Banned
May 26, 2003
1,456
0
0
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Originally posted by: Whitling
Get a grip, group. As pointed out earlier, cyanide has some legitimate uses. Second, the original Fox article is loaded with the usual innuendos. "Is belived to be," "may be," "could be," and "one official said."

Think for a moment. How many stories have you seen where something was discovered and then it proved to be complete bunk. Right now, it the "traitors" at Guantanamo. Their offenses have been reduced to spitting on the sidewalk and jay walking. Remember how many times "probable chemical weapons" have been discovered. These stories are like a baloon going into the razor factory. Big when they go in and small when they come out.

Remember, this is the news industry we're talking about. No, wait, this is Fox News. Remember, this is the entertainment industry we're talking about. But for Alchemize, it's proof.

I notice the post before mine points out it was found in a "suspected safehouse." The prosecution almosts rests. In the FN fiasco -- uh -- I mean story -- the guy is described as a poison specialist. Here's a link to his bio. Chemical and biological warfare, perhaps, but dropping 7 pounds of poison. Bio
This was stuff found last month and tested...not something found today.
it could have been 1000 pounds and it would still have been minimalized by the libs for purely political purposes, like a 40 acre hidden chemical complex found scrubbed clean...all followed by the inane tagline "well it could have been used for legitmate purposes" and yes it could have, but it obviously was not legitimate for 3 main reasons:

1. things that are legitimate do not need to be hidden

2. if it was used for making aspirin the best way to demonstrate this would be to leave the traces of aspirin production intact, proving that it was legitimate....

3. army generals do not run aspirin factories...


also how good the economy really is, the fact we never really had a reccession since bush was president until the word was redefined, used to be the economy had to have 2 consecutive quarters of "negative growth" to be considered a "reccession" this however changed when bush became president. why? since bush has been president we have not had 2 consecutive quarters of "negative growth"... so in order to slam bush about the "recession" it had to be redefined.

so when you add all the liberal bull**** up you get an economy that is in fact very strong(according to actual numbers) called "struggling" and enough cyanide to kill almost a million people somehow is not a weapon of mass destrution. why? because a liberal will not ever admit he is wrong, it is not politically expediant, therefore the minimalization.

as far as the election goes, i think bush will lose. the terrorists know they are far better off with a democrat in office. so look for another attack not long before the election, bush will be blamed by the imbecilic who do not realize there is no such thing as a secure border, and voila! ted kennedy lite(kerry) will be president.

in fact i would not put it past the leftists to do the "terrorist attack" themselves so they can gain power. the individual means nothing to these socialistic idiots, so sacrificing a few for the "good of the many" will be the justification.

 

Witling

Golden Member
Jul 30, 2003
1,448
0
0
A little help please. ShadowHawk's done it again. How do I preserve the link to this thread or preserve this thread so I can bring up

"as far as the election goes, i think bush will lose. the terrorists know they are far better off with a democrat in office. so look for another attack not long before the election, bush will be blamed by the imbecilic who do not realize there is no such thing as a secure border, and voila! ted kennedy lite(kerry) will be president."

and his prediction that there will be another terrorist attack before the election."?

Listen Shadow, the cattle stampeded the last time there was a terrorist attack. They'd stampede again. I'm not going to post a link, but look for the thread "Bush needs another 7/11 to get reelected." Started by Nietzscheusw. At least one of you is wrong.
 

alchemize

Lifer
Mar 24, 2000
11,489
0
0
as far as the election goes, i think bush will lose. the terrorists know they are far better off with a democrat in office. so look for another attack not long before the election, bush will be blamed by the imbecilic who do not realize there is no such thing as a secure border, and voila! ted kennedy lite(kerry) will be president.

in fact i would not put it past the leftists to do the "terrorist attack" themselves so they can gain power. the individual means nothing to these socialistic idiots, so sacrificing a few for the "good of the many" will be the justification.
Wow Shadowhawk I was with you until you donned the tinfoil hat generally reserved for the elite few around here...you do realize the lefty-foilies are predicting an attack just prior to the election so that a) GW will win the election because everyone will come together in realizing that Kerry is a sissy boy b) martial law can be imposed so that GW the antichrist will remain in power until christ comes to unseat him blah blah...

So as not to be considered a biased tin-foil basher, you are off your rocker with the "leftist gaining power" conspiracy version.
 

Witling

Golden Member
Jul 30, 2003
1,448
0
0
Put this day in red on your calendar. Alchemize and I are about to agree. The left and the right can't both be right when they think that an attack shortly before the election will help them.

As a practical matter, if I was someone willing to engage in violence to influence the election, I'd start killing U.S. soldiers as fast as I could to help the Dems. I'm not sure what I could do to help the Reps. Stopping the killing in Iraq doesn't seem to be a viable option.
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
Well, the ricin terrorists are targeting republicans with their latest attacks, so I'm sure there is some liberal conspiracy going on. . .
 

Shad0hawK

Banned
May 26, 2003
1,456
0
0
Originally posted by: alchemize
as far as the election goes, i think bush will lose. the terrorists know they are far better off with a democrat in office. so look for another attack not long before the election, bush will be blamed by the imbecilic who do not realize there is no such thing as a secure border, and voila! ted kennedy lite(kerry) will be president.

in fact i would not put it past the leftists to do the "terrorist attack" themselves so they can gain power. the individual means nothing to these socialistic idiots, so sacrificing a few for the "good of the many" will be the justification.
Wow Shadowhawk I was with you until you donned the tinfoil hat generally reserved for the elite few around here...you do realize the lefty-foilies are predicting an attack just prior to the election so that a) GW will win the election because everyone will come together in realizing that Kerry is a sissy boy b) martial law can be imposed so that GW the antichrist will remain in power until christ comes to unseat him blah blah...

So as not to be considered a biased tin-foil basher, you are off your rocker with the "leftist gaining power" conspiracy version.
it would seem to me that if the gaol were to impose martial law, it would have been done 9-1-01 as far as conspiracy theory goes, i do not think the DNC has such a "plan", but at the same time i do not put anything past the far left whackos

 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
5
0
Off the wall prediction for election day.

Republicans need a 1-2 month lead time for an terror attack so they can divert people from the election promises of the Dems and concentrate outrage on the perps.

Dems need a 1-2 month lead time for them to point out the flaws in the Republican claims that we are safer and to find intelligence flaws that allowed the attack.

Terrorists need a 1-2 day lead from the elections to disrupt the elections and make fools over the complete country. That will stop the election. Look how the country shut down on 9/11.

Now there are three parties that would love an attack. Who will instigate one?:(
 

Shad0hawK

Banned
May 26, 2003
1,456
0
0
Originally posted by: Whitling
A little help please. ShadowHawk's done it again. How do I preserve the link to this thread or preserve this thread so I can bring up

"as far as the election goes, i think bush will lose. the terrorists know they are far better off with a democrat in office. so look for another attack not long before the election, bush will be blamed by the imbecilic who do not realize there is no such thing as a secure border, and voila! ted kennedy lite(kerry) will be president."

and his prediction that there will be another terrorist attack before the election."?

Listen Shadow, the cattle stampeded the last time there was a terrorist attack. They'd stampede again. I'm not going to post a link, but look for the thread "Bush needs another 7/11 to get reelected." Started by Nietzscheusw. At least one of you is wrong.

i have seen it, but not posted on it yet. however since liberals control most of the media they are in the position to capitalize on it, just like 911 when we had hillary holding up the times with the caption "HE KNEW!" when in fact she and her husband should have known in 98-99 after the first attack on the trade center in 98. in fact on this very board i saw many threads blaming bush for 911, and am sure you did to.

i also notice no reaction to other facts presented in that post, and am not surprised.



 

Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,389
4,817
136
Is it a good thing that this guy is possesion of these chemicals? Clearly no. However, this article is rediculous because it fails to put this in its proper perspective, and I think, very clearly implies something much larger. The SH/ Al Quesadia partnership has be tenative at best, and by most opinion, not to exist in any meaningful way. No real evidence has ever shown SH supporting AQ beyond Cheney's shadowy references to Chech intel. But this article refers to it as it were a undisputed and well-proven fact.
"..poisons specialist described by some (who? Some nut in the mailroom?) U.S. intelligence officials as having been a key link (as if the link was definite, and this guy was the linchpin) between...Saddam Hussein and the Al Qaeda terror network.

Then it goes onto say just how deadly this chem can be just by "exposure to even a small amount through contact or inhalation can cause immediate death. Leading one to the conclusion that if a small amt can kill a person, then this "huge" amount of 7 kg can kill lots and lots of people. Hence a weapon of mass destruction. Some of the posts clearly demonstrate the lead this article is intending you to take, quote:

"At roughly 1 KG / 2 pounds = 3 kg. = 3000 grams = 3000000 mg.
3000000 mg salt / 3 mg lethal level = 1 million lethal doses. Seems like an awful small stockpile"



Cyanide would be a crappy weapon. First of all, I don't know where the 3mg figure came from, but it is not what I've found from the MSDS sheets for Sodium Cyanide (maybe its some other salt, but wouldn't really matter.) It varies depending on what you test, (man, woman, child, dog, rat etc.) but Tox data list as high as 100mg per kilo of body weight. So this revised figure of 1M lethal doses it still way off. Then again, this article doesn't bother to explain that.
Second of all is delivery. How do you get people to injest a large amt of CN (cyanide)? You can't exactly just shove it in people's mouth. Poison the water? You would need a huge amt, much more than 7kg to poison any substantial water source to any realistic lethal level. Even then, the water would be so bitter that no one would drink it (ever bite an apple seed?) They used to execute people by dropping CN into a vat of acid to form a highly toxic gas. But is it realistic to think AQ could just throw a 15lb chunk of CN into a vat of Sulfuric Acid (where? on the streets on Manhattan?) and expect people to stand and watch and slowly get over taken by the vapors? No. There is a reason they stopped using this to execute people.

This article is crap because leads people (either deliberately or omission) to think this has more signifigance that it truely has. This is what FOX has done all surrounding the War on Terror and the Iraq debacle. They spread fear through hype and paranoia to boost their ratings. Fox is crap.
 

classy

Lifer
Oct 12, 1999
15,219
1
81
Yea they found a basket full of apples too. The seeds were going to be extracted to harvest the cyanide in them. I can not believe all these WMD were not found sooner. :p
 

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