Custom Build Comparable to this Prebuilt

[Zawmbeez]

Hey. My family (I'm 16) is set on buying a new prebuilt computer. The computer will be both mine and the family. They plan on using it for watching a few movies and browsing the internet. I want to use it to game in addition to regular computer use. I would probably be gaming in 1920x1080. I don't think I would be over clocking anything.

The best prebuilt I can find within the budget ($1000 but there needs to be a monitor) seems to be this Gateway.
The i3 looks good. But I feel like everything else in it is going to be low end crap. The 300W power supply doesn't seem like it would handle any upgrades. Worried about the hard drive and or the power supply failing especially.

I've done this custom build: (with help from mfenn. Thanks so much!)
Processor: AMD Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition - 3.40GHz ~ $179,97
Mother Board: MSI 785GM-E51 Motherboard ~ $99.99 (-$7.99 for bundle)
Memory: 4GB Corsair DDR3 1333MHz ~ $99.97 ($10 Rebate)
Graphics Card: XFX Radeon HD 5770 – 1GB DDR5 ~ $159.97
Hard Drive: Western Digital Caviar Black 7200RPM – 500GB ~ $59.97
Disk Drive: Asus 24x DVD Drive ~ $20.97
Power Supply: Corsair 430W ~ 54.97 ($20 Rebate)
Case: Thermaltake V3 ~ $62.99 ($10 Rebate)
Operating System: Windows Seven Home Premium 64 bit ~ $102.97

This is the Gateway from future shop. (If you want more this is the link)
Processor: Intel Core i3 550 – 3.2GHz
Mother Board: Unknown
Memory: 4GB Unknown DDR3 Unknown
Graphics Card: Unknown Radeon HD 5450 – 512GB DDR5
Hard Drive: Unknown – 1TB
Disk Drive: Unknown 16x DVD Drive
Power Supply: Unknown 300W
Case: Gateway
Operating System: Windows Seven Home Premium 64 bit

Total, after taxes and shipping $978.84. The gateway we could buy locally and it would be $790.99 after.

So the custom is $187 more then the gateway. I can understand why it's more expensive. A four core processor versus a two core processor. The memory is a well known brand, and probably faster then the one in the Gateway.The hard drive is higher quality. The power supply, shouldn't fail and it has room for a few upgrades. And the case seems like it has more room inside of it and capabilities for more upgrades.

Basically after writing over 2000 characters. I have two questions.
1. Is everything I listed up there (points at the paragraph before this) all that is better about the custom build, or are there things I missed.
2. How hard is it to put together a computer from scratch. I've never built one, but from what I've read, its not too hard. Could you link me to a video walk through or something of the like?

 

[ther00kie16]

Do you have any Dell outlet deals in Canada? 20% in US ends today. Some nice i7 systems to be had there. And although they are refurbs, they come with 3yr warranty. If it's a family computer, why does it need to have such high end parts?

 

[Zawmbeez]

A quad core and a decent video card is high end? I'm going with stuff like that, because I plan to play PC games on the computer as well. If it was just for my parents browsing the internet, I'd be fine with the Gateway. But the computer is mine as well, so it needs to be capable of what I need to do.

There is a dell.ca in Canada. I could order. I don't think there is one near me though. I've never been impressed with dell stuff. Stuff in the same price doesn't really seem comparable. I can't seem to find this 20% sale on the Canadian site. I don't think it is available in Canada.

 

[mfenn]

I've done this custom build: (with help from mfenn. Thanks so much!)
Graphics Card: XFX Radeon HD 5770 – 1GB DDR5 ~ $159.97

This is the Gateway from future shop. (If you want more this is the link)
Graphics Card: Unknown Radeon HD 5450 – 512GB DDR5

This is the absolute most important difference in the two machines. The other stuff that you mention (CPU, RAM, quality components) is important, but for gaming, the GPU is the #1 most important component.

The 5770 and 5450 are targeting such different markets, it's hard to even find apples-to-apples comparisons between the two. The 5450 has 80 stream processors. The 5770, 800. I'm going to guess that the 5770 is somewhere around between 8-10 times faster. Simply put, you will not be able to play anything at any kind of reasonable settings on a 5450.

I honestly don't think that you're going to find a $1000 prebuilt computer that has a reasonable GPU, especially not in Canada (smaller market and all that). Assembling a computer is not hard, and can even be a fun learning experience. But seriously, I think if you put forth the effort necessary to research components and learn how to put it together, then your effort should be rewarded.

 

[jchu14]

Well, if you plan on gaming, the pre-built will vastly inferior and inadequate. Though it's not really a fair comparison because you're comparing a $980 computer to a $700 one. You'll also need to include the cost of a keyboard, mouse, memory card reader, wifi adapter. You can get a quad-core, 6gb RAM computer with integrated graphics for $680 at tigerdirect.ca. If you don't mind refurb, you can get something very similar for $510.

Maybe it'll be easier to convince your parents of the extra expense if you can reduce the price of the diy system a bit? Dropping down to a Athlon X4 would save you $60-70. You can also get a GTS 450 for $115. It's slower than the 5770, but not by much. To be honest, 5770 for $160 seems like a bad value.

 

[Zawmbeez]

Thanks again mfenn. I was looking forward to building it. But ordering and putting it together is an inconvenience to the rest of the family. I still think it's worth it. Any specific guides on slapping it all together?

I don't mind the extra cost. I will give them the money that is difference. I feel that's right because they upgrades are only really going to affect me.

You can also get a GTS 450 for $115. It's slower than the 5770, but not by much. To be honest, 5770 for $160 seems like a bad value.

IS EVGA any good? It's seems like there is a significant price drop between it and other 450s...:hmm:

 

[trexpesto]

I feel this is OK, BUT:
You add the condition that you are finally and irreversibly released from tech support duty once you move out of the house.

 

[ther00kie16]

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16883227282
$950 for i5 760 and gtx460
Only 1 yr warranty though

Wow... newegg ca has much less of an offering than us. I pieced together a system for u here though u should answer the questions in the sticky:


Phenom II x4 940 $105: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16819103644
chose this since it's half the price of an i5 quad

Xigmatek s1283 $36: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16835233029
or this for the smaller Rosewill cases Scythe Shuriken $30: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16835233029

Gigabyte 785g MB $70: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16813128394

Geil 2x2gb ddr2 800 ram $74 http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16820144073
or if you don't mind rebates: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16820220396

Zotac gtx460 1gb $192 (with $20 rebate): http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16814500169
Any decent amount of gaming and you'll want something better than a 5700 series

Samsung f2 1tb hd $52: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16822152173

Corsair Nova 64GB SSD $130 (with $10 rebate): http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16820233108
Use this ssd for boot and often used programs and your pc will seem much faster than without a ssd. Sound investment for years.

DVD burner $20: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16827106289
And if you need blu-ray, cheaper to get a separate reader $50: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16827106325

OCZ Modstream 600w $74 (with $20 rebate): http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16817341017
The 430w corsair should be good enough as well

Antec 300 $60: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16811129042
Or $30 for your choice of a cheaper Rosewill case that may not be able to hold the largest heatsinks: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...&name=Rosewill

Win7 Home Premium $100: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16832116754

28" I-Inc 1920x1200 $260: http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applicatio...558&CatId=3774
Or a more reasonable 23" 1920x1080 $175 ($20 rebate): http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...16824236081CVF

Total with Antec 300, Xigmatek hsf, OCZ psu, DVD burner, and 23" Asus LCD - $987.90 before shipping and $70 in rebates.

Note: 1tb Samsung requires $10 promo code, which requires you to be registered to receive newegg newsletter (last i checked).

 

[Zawmbeez]

Thanks a lot. Gave me a lot to think about.
Do you think I would need the cpu heat sink? Wouldn't the retail one be good enough?
Does the 940 only work on DDR2?
I don't think I would want to use the Samsung. I've always liked WD.
The 940 seems to be a lot cheaper.

 

[FishAk]

The Samsung is faster and cheaper. But if you like WD, that's your choice, and not bad, provided you know you will never ever want to use the disk in a RAID array.

In any case, whether you go with pre-built or DIY, you should buy another drive with enough space to back up your primary drive. All drives die, and the only question is when. By having an internal backup, it's conveniant to keep a backup set up to date. Don't neglect keeping an image set of your OS/programs on both disks, so when a disk breaks, or a virus attacks, it will be quick and simple to recover your complete install. Make a 50Gb partition just for images on each drive, so you don't loose an early trouble free OS version due to a disk failure.

 

[Zawmbeez]

I know I won't want to use it in RAID. I'm planning on purchasing a second drive soon after I've got the computer together. We also have two 500GB WD blues lying around with not much on them I can use. Thanks for the advice.

 

[jchu14]

Thanks a lot. Gave me a lot to think about.
Do you think I would need the cpu heat sink? Wouldn't the retail one be good enough?
Does the 940 only work on DDR2?
I don't think I would want to use the Samsung. I've always liked WD.
The 940 seems to be a lot cheaper.

The retail heatsink would work if you don't plan to overclock. The stock heatsink is probably pretty loud though (this is an assumption based on the 1055t stock heatsink). I don't know if your family will care that it's loud.

The 940 is an AM2 processor, which means DDR2 only. It's not a big deal though since the performance difference between DDR2 and DDR3 is very small. That's a good price for a quad core Phenom II.

therookie19 gave you a pretty solid build.

 

[muskie32]

Do you think I would need the cpu heat sink? Wouldn't the retail one be good enough?

Only get the retail one if you are over-clocking, or if the retail heat sink is to loud.

 

[Zawmbeez]

Okay. After a little more reading. I've got it down to two builds. One uses the x4 940 (DDR2) and the other uses the x4 955 (DDR3).

940
AMD Phenom II x4 940 – 3.0GHz ~ $105.99
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16819103644

ASUS M4A785-M AM3/AM2+/AM2 AMD 785G HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard ~ $69.9
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16813131595

G.Skill 4GB 1066 ~ $100.99
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16820231246

Zotac GTX 460 ~$191.99
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16814500169

Western Digital Caviar Black 750GB ~ $69.99
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16822136319

Corsair Builder Series CX430 ~ $49.49
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16817139017

Asus 24x DVD Drive ~ $21.99
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16827135204

Antec 300 ~ $59.99
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16811129042

Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit ~ $99.99
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16832116754

Subtotal $770.41

955

AMD Phenom II x4 955 – 3.2GHz
ASUS M4A89GTD PRO AM3 AMD 890GX SATA 6Gb/s HDMI ATX AMD Motherboard ~ $269.98
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/ComboDe...t=Combo.534731

Corsair 4GB 1600 ~ $87.99
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16820145260

Zotac GTX 460 ~$191.99
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16814500169

Western Digital Caviar Black 750GB ~ $69.99
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16822136319

Corsair Builder Series CX430 ~ $49.49
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16817139017

Asus 24x DVD Drive ~ $21.99
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16827135204

Antec 300 ~ $59.99
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16811129042

Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit ~ $99.99
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16832116754

Subtotal $851.41


For only $80 more I think I'm going to go with the 955. Anything wrong with either of these two builds? What do you think of both of them? How much better is the 955.

 

[mfenn]

You've picked out an OEM 940 CPU, so you'd need to add ~$30 or so to that build for a decent heatsink like the Hyper 212+. The DDR2 build is also spending a ridiculous amount of money on DDR2 though, so you can easily make up the $30 by switching to a more reasonable kit.

In the end, it sounds like the budget is tight, so I'd probably go with the DDR2 build, as the 940 will be fairly close to the 955 in terms of performance. You do miss out on upgrade-ability with the DDR2 build, but that should be a secondary concern to actually getting the computer in the first place. Make sure to account for monitor, keyboard, mouse, taxes, etc. in your budget.

 

[jchu14]

You don't need to get 1066 DDR2 RAM. The performance difference is minimal and not worth $20. I am not even sure you can get it to that speed without manually adjusting it in the BIOS. It may be useful for overclocking (just to give you more flexibility), but not really worth it otherwise. This Gskill 800mhz kit would work fine, albeit it looks plain compared to the 1066 kit.

Anandtech CPU benchmark comparison between 940 and 955. The difference is fairly small, looks like 0-7% to me.

The performance difference between the two build doesn't warrant the extra money IMO. Though if it makes you feel better about not buying 'last year's technology', then go for it.

You may also want to consider getting the Radeon 6850 intead of the 460. It's about the same speed as the 460 (game depending), but uses a bit less power on load. For $15 more after rebate is calculated, I think it would be fun to get the newest tech.

edit: d'oh mfenn beat me to it! Spent too long writing my post

 

[Zawmbeez]

Thanks for responding so fast And for catching the thing about the OEM CPU. I would have had no heat sink!

The budget (of $1000) is before taxes. And with this monitor, the total (before taxes) comes to $1052.55. Taxes bring it to $1189.38. You can take $65 dollars away from that in rebates though so $1124.38.The prebuilt is $980.08 after taxes with the same monitor. The 940 comes to $1054.23 ($1014.23 after rebates).

Is the 955 build worth the $150 over the prebuilt? I think it definitely is!
More importantly, is the 955 build worth the extra $110 over the 940? I'm unsure about this... The faster cpu and the DDR3 is the only difference. Is it worth one hundred dollars?

EDIT

You don't need to get 1066 DDR2 RAM. The performance difference is minimal and not worth $20. I am not even sure you can get it to that speed without manually adjusting it in the BIOS. It may be useful for overclocking (just to give you more flexibility), but not really worth it otherwise. This Gskill 800mhz kit would work fine, albeit it looks plain compared to the 1066 kit.

Anandtech CPU benchmark comparison between 940 and 955. The difference is fairly small, looks like 0-7% to me.

The performance difference between the two build doesn't warrant the extra money IMO. Though if it makes you feel better about not buying 'last year's technology', then go for it.

You may also want to consider getting the Radeon 6850 intead of the 460. It's about the same speed as the 460 (game depending), but uses a bit less power on load. For $15 more after rebate is calculated, I think it would be fun to get the newest tech.

edit: d'oh mfenn beat me to it! Spent too long writing my post

No problem Answered my current question before I even posted it so you're still a winner. I'm leaning towards the 955, because of exactly what you said. I don't like the idea of the older CPU and RAM, even though the performance difference is minimal.

 

[Zap]

Hey. My family (I'm 16) is set on buying a new prebuilt computer. The computer will be both mine and the family.
...
So the custom is $187 more then the gateway.
...
2. How hard is it to put together a computer from scratch. I've never built one, but from what I've read, its not too hard. Could you link me to a video walk through or something of the like?
...
I was looking forward to building it. But ordering and putting it together is an inconvenience to the rest of the family. I still think it's worth it. Any specific guides on slapping it all together?

If it was purely going to be for you, I would be in favor of you assembling it yourself because it is a great learning experience and you can get exactly what you want for components.

Since your family will also be relying on it, I'd be a bit more hesitant because if they are inconvenienced (by how long it takes or if something breaks whether your fault or not) they will all blame you. This isn't a problem for an experienced system builder, but can be painful to go through for a first time builder. How would you deal with the system if it won't turn on after you put it together? What if it is completely unstable and crashes all the time? These are valid questions because I see them posted here (and elsewhere) from time to time.

For instance, this thread detailing a build using all new parts. Turned out one part was DOA, but it took a lot of frustration, and "not to mention how much of an idiot I looked like at the local department store returning so many MOBO's and other hardware."

How about putting the extra $187 into a better Gateway system? Alternately, buy the Gateway and use the extra money to buy a slightly better graphics card for it with a PSU upgrade.

 

[Zawmbeez]

Addressed all my worries, in one post. Thanks I was about to go make yet another thread. Asking for a guide to actually putting it together, what I would need to piece it all together and some common problems and how to check/fix them.

If something went wrong, I'd probably come back here, very worried and ask for help with my fingers crossed. If something did go wrong, my dad would probably freak out and I'd be very panic-y. I wouldn't have the availability of extra/replacement parts to check for other problems. I'd have to hope everything went together nicely. If something went wrong, I'm sure it would feel like I was trying to build a space ship in hell. Everyone has to start some where though

Before I thought about building it my self I was looking for some good prebuilts at local stores and such. I couldn't find anything that came close. They all seemed to be very expensive for what you were getting. Anything quad core left no room in the budget for upgrading the power supply and graphics. Anything dual core felt very expensive for what you were getting. I also feel like upgrading right off the bat would be a waste. I'll take another look for something that could be upgraded.

Still not sure what I'm going to do now. Any tips on building your first computer?

 

[ScorcherDarkly]

Still not sure what I'm going to do now. Any tips on building your first computer?

1. Have lots of patience.

2. Read the instructions.

3. Don't force anything. If it won't fit in the slot, it probably wasn't designed to go there.

4. Use common sense.

5. Open up your current computer and poke around a bit. Notice how things go together.

6. Try to find a person that has some experience or an illustrated guide. PC Gamer published a special edition recently detailing step by step how to assemble a PC. Several similar things exist if you google around enough.

7. If something doesn't work, don't panic. Exude confidence to your parents. Let them know you'll take care of it. As long as you didn't break something (see #3) you'll be able to return without a problem, and even if you did break something in some cases.

You seem like a smart kid. Just keep your cool and you'll be fine. Things only go together one way, so it's harder than you'd think to screw up.

 

[FishAk]

The way you write, I think you have a good head on your shoulders. ZAP makes very valid points, but I think it would to a large extent depend on how understanding your family would be to a snafu. If you can troubleshoot logically, you shouldn't have to difficult of a time pinpointing a problem that comes up. However, if your family is breathing down your neck, and you start panicking because you don't have support, your logic skills could go out the window.

The HDD you linked to is the 640Gb Black. With only 320Gb per platter, it's significantly slower than a 1Tb drives with 500Gb/platter. Look at a HD Tune graph of the 640 drive, and a Samsung 1Tb drive. The WD drive starts at about 110Mb/s and goes down to about 50Mb/s. The 1Tb drive starts at about 140Mb/s, and it's still about 110Mb/s at the 640Gb point. It never drops below 75Mb/s.

 

[Zawmbeez]

Thanks for the tips

I've found this guide, and am in the process of reading it. Any link to this PC Gamer step by step? Or was it only in the magazine. I couldn't find it.

EDIT Thanks also go to FishAK. My dad would probably be there, and as long as I don't snap anything he shouldn't panic. I'll have to explain the knock outs before hand, so he doesn't panic.

You're really pushing the 1TB Samsung. I guess its plain better.

 

[mfenn]

You're really pushing the 1TB Samsung. I guess its plain better.

Pretty much. Fish knows his storage.

 

[jluser]

ncix.com will almost always have better prices. if not, they have an online pricematching system that's very useful. pricematch at ncix from sites like canada computers, newegg.ca, and tiger direct for the best price. i'm confident if you do this, you'll be able to shave close to $100 off your total cost.

when did you plan on buying your components/system? i pm'd you a site for canadian bargain hunting.

 

[Zawmbeez]

@above Thanks. I'm planning on buying it, once I've settled on all the components and am confident that I can put it together.

I pieced together the same build on NCIX. NewEgg was cheaper on everything but the case. I had to price match almost everything. I couldn't price match some things, because NCIX didn't have the same item.

Revised Build (Knocked about $40 bucks off. Costs less then a grand to get it to my door, which is good)

AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition 3.2GHz
ASUS M4A89GTD PRO AM3 AMD 890GX SATA 6Gb/s HDMI ATX AMD Motherboard ~ $269.98
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/ComboDe...t=Combo.534731

G.Skill 4GB DDR3 1333 ~ $70.99
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16820231190

Zotac GTX 460 1GB ~ $191.99
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16814500169

Samsung Spinpoint 500GB ~ $55.99
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16822152181

LiteOn 24x DVD Drive ~ 19.99
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16827106289

Corsair CX430 ~ $49.49
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16817139017

Antec Three Hundred Case ~ $59.99
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16811129042

Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit ~ $99.99
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16832116754

Subtotal: $818.41
Shipping: $33.82
Tax: $110.79
Total: $963.02