Current NBA Player Comes Out

[Retro Rob]

As a black man, it surprises me that you aren't more cognizant of the stigma the black community has with homosexuality.

On a side note, he isn't coming out and demanding that everyone congradulate him for it - did you bother to read what he wrote? That couldn't be farther from the truth. I don't understand the need to twist his words to make it seem as if he is throwing a party or something - the man wrote a letter.

You say it isn't a big deal - congrats for being so progressive and move on. Word of mouth has caused this story to go viral - good or bad, this topic is still clearly a big deal for many Americans....

So are you saying that he was totally oblivious to the "congrats" he was going to get?

People go public with things for a reason. He seems quite intelligent, and for anyone to be "shocked" it got the attention it did needs a reality check, big time.

 

[shadow9d9]

WTF would want to buy that book? Seriously, who gives a shit? If I announce the type of women I like will that make the frontpage of CNN? Christ, some people think too much of themselves.

You are clueless. Your hate blinds you.

 

[woolfe9998]

WTF would want to buy that book? Seriously, who gives a shit? If I announce the type of women I like will that make the frontpage of CNN? Christ, some people think too much of themselves.

Then don't buy the book. Books are commodities to be sold to interested consumers and passed on by others.

Your analogy with announcing the "type of woman you like" is pretty foolish. Your orientation is already "out" by default if for no other reason, nor do you face any reprisal so it takes no courage for you to talk about it.

 

[blankslate]

WTF would want to buy that book? Seriously, who gives a shit? If I announce the type of women I like will that make the frontpage of CNN? Christ, some people think too much of themselves.

Your words say you don't but as another poster suggested.

If you really didn't care perhaps you wouldn't really need to be going out of your way to emphasize how much that you don't care.

 

[crashtestdummy]

Hmm.. I was listening to Rome today and he said something that didn't make sense to me: "He came out to live his life... you can live your life, why can't he live his?". You can't blame that on a cruel world -- millions of people haven't, but gays can?

I will admit -- society can make a person uncomfortable, but ultimately, you can't let people control your actions like that and then you think you deserve some sort of welcoming party when you decide to take control of your life again. Why couldn't Collins live his life? Because HE didn't want to yet.

Really, as a black man in America, if I let racists whites keep me from moving into a certain area, marry a white woman, work in white corporate America, can I get an audience for "taking control" of my life and getting that good job, marrying that woman, moving into that white neighborhood? While many may applaud my bravery, those people who are honest with me and themselves will say that they're glad I finally did something I should have done a long time ago -- taking control of my life and to keep it moving... what I did was nothing special, and defintely not worth attention-whoring Sports Illustrated over.

I think you underestimate the power of social pressure. People are social creatures, and the prospect of being shunned is an incredibly powerful force. I'd love to claim that I live my life entirely free of judgmental influence of others, but it's simply not true. If there was a part of me that, if revealed, might cost me my career, my family, and my friends, I'd probably want to keep it secret as long as I could.

The example you give, of being a black man encountering racism, is a worthwhile case study. You don't feel courageous living your life freely in part because the vast majority of society is with you. 60 years ago, that was not the case and it took a lot more courage (and entailed far more risk) to do what you do now. Were black people then morally inferior to black people now? I certainly don't think so.

There's another big difference between being black and being gay: you have a long, long family history of knowing what it's like to be black. You can ask your father and/or mother what to do when confronted with racism, you have a culture and traditions built to respond to racism and act as a bulwark against it. Gay people don't have this. Their parents are most likely straight. Until recently, they grew up without gay role models. Many of them felt that who they were was wrong and that they must suppress it. It's difficult to tell someone to just be who they are when they have no model for what that should be.*

Just as public support has shifted on racism, though, so too it is shifting on being gay. Even 20 years ago, coming out could have been a career killer. Saying you're gay then would have been truly heroic. At this point, you're barely getting to half that don't think being gay is a sin. Depending on where you live, though, coming out still means risking being disowned by your family and shunned by your community. In another 20 years, I hope that it will be trivial for a notable athlete to thank his husband for his support while receiving the Lombardi trophy or being inducted into the Hall of Fame. For now, though, we have to content ourselves with a journeyman at the end of his career setting an example for younger players of who they can become.





*I should note here, however, that the heritability of being black cuts both ways. The centuries of abuse have created a cultural scarring that will continue to last generations, something gay people are far less likely to have to deal with.

 

[Retro Rob]

I think you underestimate the power of social pressure. People are social creatures, and the prospect of being shunned is an incredibly powerful force. I'd love to claim that I live my life entirely free of judgmental influence of others, but it's simply not true. If there was a part of me that, if revealed, might cost me my career, my family, and my friends, I'd probably want to keep it secret as long as I could

Well, yeah.. I can agree with that -- the pressure is extremely strong, and I too, am very congizant of how others precieve myself... this is only natrual.

The example you give, of being a black man encountering racism, is a worthwhile case study. You don't feel courageous living your life freely in part because the vast majority of society is with you. 60 years ago, that was not the case and it took a lot more courage (and entailed far more risk) to do what you do now. Were black people then morally inferior to black people now? I certainly don't think so.

Good points all around.

But they can "hide" being gay, and I am not saying they should, but what I mean is that I can't hide the fact that I am black, so people would know immediately. Homosexuals? Well, we can't see people's sexual orentation as openly as we can see their race. So, they're at an advantage as regard to homophobes as I am not to pure racists.

There's another big difference between being black and being gay: you have a long, long family history of knowing what it's like to be gay. You can ask your father and/or mother what to do when confronted with racism, you have a culture and traditions built to respond to racism and act as a bulwark against it. Gay people don't have this. Their parents are most likely straight. Until recently, they grew up without gay role models. Many of them felt that who they were was wrong and that they must suppress it. It's difficult to tell someone to just be who they are when they have no model for what that should be.*

True, very true... and that gives people added courage.

Just as public support has shifted on racism, though, so too it is shifting on being gay. Even 20 years ago, coming out could have been a career killer. Saying you're gay then would have been truly heroic. At this point, you're barely getting to half that don't think being gay is a sin. Depending on where you live, though, coming out still means risking being disowned by your family and shunned by your community. In another 20 years, I hope that it will be trivial for a notable athlete to thank his husband for his support while receiving the Lombardi trophy or being inducted into the Hall of Fame. For now, though, we have to content ourselves with a journeyman at the end of his career setting an example for younger players of who they can become.

You make good point CTD...

But I will say, though I am not against gay people, seeing another man thanking his "husband" is something I will never warm up to. I don't have a problem with that either. If they want to thank their husband publicly, well, they're free to do that, but I will be quick to change the channel. If they think hetero relationships are equally as unwatchable, then I embrace the difference in humans.

Just not my piece of cake... I hope you can understand that.

 

[Dari]

Your words say you don't but as another poster suggested.

If you really didn't care perhaps you wouldn't really need to be going out of your way to emphasize how much that you don't care.

I'm just fascinated by all this gay stuff I hear about in the media. Where is all this propaganda coming from? Maybe I've been in New York too long but this is simply not a big deal. Hatred against gays is not institutional and no one wants to know what people are doing behind closed doors. I don't.

 

[boomerang]

DIANNY RANTS: Courageous Guy Talks About Something Nobody Shuts Up About

 

[crashtestdummy]

But they can "hide" being gay, and I am not saying they should, but what I mean is that I can't hide the fact that I am black, so people would know immediately. Homosexuals? Well, we can't see people's sexual orentation as openly as we can see their race. So, they're at an advantage as regard to homophobes as I am not to pure racists.

Very true. I wonder if, had it been possible, many black people would have "hidden" their race if they could to get along in society. Kind like how may Jews in show business changed their names to seem more Anglo (look at Woody Allen, and Kirk Douglas, for example).

But I will say, though I am not against gay people, seeing another man thanking his "husband" is something I will never warm up to. I don't have a problem with that either. If they want to thank their husband publicly, well, they're free to do that, but I will be quick to change the channel. If they think hetero relationships are equally as unwatchable, then I embrace the difference in humans.

Just not my piece of cake... I hope you can understand that.

I do understand, but I hope you also understand that your desire to change the channel makes his decision braver. Your changing the channel at the mention of a celebrity's husband makes it harder for him to keep his job. If everyone did as you would do, he'd be out of the job. Such is the nature of entertainment. This is not to chastise you, it's simply to answer your original question about why it was brave on his part to be open about who he is.

 

[Retro Rob]

I am wondering how anyone thinks this will affect his basketball career?

Unless he's retiring, this can backfire and put the NBA, its teams in particular, in an peculiar position. IMO, I don't see this happening, just trying to gauge some thoughts here.

Those who follow the game a bit knows he's a marginal player at best -- 12 years, 6 teams... you do the math.

What if no teams wants him for pure basketball reasons, or a team that doesn't want to be stigmatized as "homophobic" offer him a deal anyway, though they don't want him?

Just saying, things like this can initially have unintended consequences -- just wondering how others view any possibilites.

 

[shadow9d9]

I am wondering how anyone thinks this will affect his basketball career?

Unless he's retiring, this can backfire and put the NBA, its teams in particular, in an peculiar position. IMO, I don't see this happening, just trying to gauge some thoughts here.

Those who follow the game a bit knows he's a marginal player at best -- 12 years, 6 teams... you do the math.

What if no teams wants him for pure basketball reasons, or a team that doesn't want to be stigmatized as "homophobic" offer him a deal anyway, though they don't want him?

Just saying, things like this can initially have unintended consequences -- just wondering how others view any possibilites.

Someone has to pave the way. In the future, no one will care. If they care now, tough.. let them deal with it.

 

[Fenixgoon]

who cares?

also i heard on the radio that obama (or at least his press corps) made some statement about it. don't they have other, more important shit to be working on than commenting on the happenings of the NBA?

and no i'm not anti-obama, i just find such matters trivial compared to oh i don't know, the health and future of the entire damn country.

 

[Retro Rob]

Someone has to pave the way. In the future, no one will care. If they care now, tough.. let them deal with it.

Well, deal with the fact that people just simply don't agree with the lifestyle.

True tolerance is dealing with people who have a difference of opinion/choice, etc.

Be prepared to deal with it.

 

[Retro Rob]

I do understand, but I hope you also understand that your desire to change the channel makes his decision braver. Your changing the channel at the mention of a celebrity's husband makes it harder for him to keep his job. If everyone did as you would do, he'd be out of the job. Such is the nature of entertainment. This is not to chastise you, it's simply to answer your original question about why it was brave on his part to be open about who he is.

If it makes him braver, so be it -- I'm glad to have indirectly helped someone. I know what you're saying, though, but I am not concerned about his job as much as I am concern with what I entertain myself with.

With all the support for homosexuality/gay marriage, I don't think we'll ever have anything to worry about.

 

[HomerJS]

Yes I know you are a fucking tool. What difference does it make if he is gay? He did it for attention.

Because you don't get harassed out of earning a living for being straight.

 

[silverpig]

So a gay black guy admitted he was a basketball player. What's the big deal?

 

[Whiskey16]

Well, deal with the fact that people just simply don't agree with the lifestyle.

True tolerance is dealing with people who have a difference of opinion/choice, etc.

Be prepared to deal with it.

Dealing with prejudicial bigotry is best by not wincing away, but confronting, calling a spade-a-spade, and condemnation.

The above is the old and inane nonsense that a tolerant society must tolerate prejudicial bigotry and all of the antisocial marginalisation and persecution it brings alone. Rob M. demands none should speak out against those who express and may act against homosexuals, blacks, etc... It's just a opinion.. Don't get uppity. Such opinions are benign if left alone. :thumbsdown:

No.

Rob M., let's put this in a direct personal perspective of why this NBA's player's vocal attempt towards the attainment of homosexuality as a normal and acceptable existence in society can help to deter the prejudicial persecution that the likes of you are on record for advocating, even to that of harming your own family:

If I had a son who was gay, if he was an adult, well.. so be it. I can't do anything about that. I still would not accept his choice of sexual partner(s), but he's still my son and I would still love him.

With greater awareness and acceptance of homosexuality, the icky factor will no longer be as prevalent and permit the atmosphere of diminishing homosexuals as Rob M's recorded intolerance of their relationships and choice of partners.

 

[Retro Rob]

Dealing with prejudicial bigotry is best by not wincing away, but confronting, calling a spade-a-spade, and condemnation.

The above is the old and inane nonsense that a tolerant society must tolerate prejudicial bigotry and all of the antisocial marginalisation and persecution it brings alone. Rob M. demands none should speak out against those who express and may act against homosexuals, blacks, etc... It's just a opinion.. Don't get uppity. Such opinions are benign if left alone. :thumbsdown:

No.

Ok -- think with your head, and not with your emotions here, ok. I know there are people who aren't still very accepting of blacks. I can't prove this, but I don't think anyone questions this.

How do I get rid of that? Should I go from person to person, asking them how they feel about blacks? And if I did get a "I don't like em", what do you propose I do to correct that? Throw them in jail? Take away their constitutional freedom of expression? Outlaw that kind of thinking or make it illegal to dislike blacks?

My question to you would be: if people still don't agree with the homosexual lifestyle after all your "confronting,/calling a spade a spade/condemnation", how do you plan to remedy that? I can tell you right now, I won't ever agree with the homosexual lifestyle, so how would you deal with me?

 

[yllus]

I was pretty proud of the reaction from Kobe Bryant and other current players in the NBA for cheering Collins on. It's about time this became a non-issue.

 

[Ryan]

Ok -- think with your head, and not with your emotions here, ok. I know there are people who aren't still very accepting of blacks. I can't prove this, but I don't think anyone questions this.

How do I get rid of that? Should I go from person to person, asking them how they feel about blacks? And if I did get a "I don't like em", what do you propose I do to correct that? Throw them in jail? Take away their constitutional freedom of expression? Outlaw that kind of thinking or make it illegal to dislike blacks?

My question to you would be: if people still don't agree with the homosexual lifestyle after all your "confronting,/calling a spade a spade/condemnation", how do you plan to remedy that? I can tell you right now, I won't ever agree with the homosexual lifestyle, so how would you deal with me?

So basically, what your saying is that people should be tolerant of your intolerant opinion, or they're intolerant themselves.

What a load of bullshit.

 

[HomerJS]

Ok -- think with your head, and not with your emotions here, ok. I know there are people who aren't still very accepting of blacks. I can't prove this, but I don't think anyone questions this.

How do I get rid of that? Should I go from person to person, asking them how they feel about blacks? And if I did get a "I don't like em", what do you propose I do to correct that? Throw them in jail? Take away their constitutional freedom of expression? Outlaw that kind of thinking or make it illegal to dislike blacks?

My question to you would be: if people still don't agree with the homosexual lifestyle after all your "confronting,/calling a spade a spade/condemnation", how do you plan to remedy that? I can tell you right now, I won't ever agree with the homosexual lifestyle, so how would you deal with me?

I don't know why this is so difficult?

If you are on a basketball team with a black teammate, shut your mouth, play ball and don't foster a hostile environment for your black teammate.

 

[shadow9d9]

Well, deal with the fact that people just simply don't agree with the lifestyle.

True tolerance is dealing with people who have a difference of opinion/choice, etc.

Be prepared to deal with it.

It isn't a "lifestyle." It is no different than being born a certain race, gender, height, etc.

You don't have tolerance for bigots who hate certain races, etc... and the same goes for gays.

Dinosaurs like you will be mocked just like those against interracial marriage and all the insanity that came before.

 

[Retro Rob]

So basically, what your saying is that people should be tolerant of your intolerant opinion, or they're intolerant themselves.

What a load of bullshit.

My point is, what can you do about it? Nothing. You can't change what people believe, unless you're willing to do it by force. So you have to tolerate it. Criticizing people will only close their minds further. Tolerate, then educate - then you'd get the desired results.

Little do you know, I knew gay people and liked them -- decent people, if you ask me, just like I view Collins as a smart and intelligent person.

 

[Retro Rob]

I don't know why this is so difficult?

If you are on a basketball team with a black teammate, shut your mouth, play ball and don't foster a hostile environment for your black teammate.

Well, while I agree, but you have to give people time to adjust... especially if they are uncomfortable around them. People will, as have I in recent years, but nothing is never 100% agreed upon especially immediately.

In fact, several GMs said they'd HAVE to consider their locker rooms before offering him a contract...especially if they have young immature players.

Some people live in reality, Homer, and recognize that change doesn't happen overnight.

It took time for racism to subside, though its still here, so I expect this to take time as well.

 

[Ryan]

My point is, what can you do about it? Nothing. You can't change what people believe, unless you're willing to do it by force. So you have to tolerate it. Criticizing people will only close their minds further. Tolerate, then educate - then you'd get the desired results.

Little do you know, I knew gay people and liked them -- decent people, if you ask me, just like I view Collins as a smart and intelligent person.

Don't throw out your token gay aquintances as an example or your own tolerance. You have shown your true colors.

If those people knew what you really believed - that you can't agree with the gay lifestyle - trust me, they would not view you as a decent person. Who gives a shit if you think someone's smart and intelligent? Deep down, below your facade of tolerance, lies a rotten core.

There's nothing I can do about that, but don't expect me to respect you or your shitty opinion. As every new generation is born and every intolerant generation dies off, I take solice in knowing that people like you are being marginalized and silenced.