Current illegal immigrant inflow - good or bad?

[RandomWords]

My big issue with immigration is unskilled labor becoming eventually over-saturated.

That would be an issue - one of the things about them joining the military though - is some training would be provided and they could potentially gain a skill/trade there... however - there is the downside that they aren't loyal to America - not really - so will we just be training our enemy's army? I would suppose so.

It may be cheaper in the long run to send them all to some place to learn a trade/skill - those who can't learn something are sent back or a percentage of them - otherwise - just letting them all in - eventually they or their children will just be drawing welfare and food stamps... because like you said - we will have an over saturation and no jobs for them.

 

[SMOGZINN]

because like you said - we will have an over saturation and no jobs for them.

This is going to happen no matter what we do with immigration. We have to solve that problem separately. If we do so then unskilled immigrants will not be a problem, if we fail then they won't want to come here anymore anyway.

 

[piasabird]

The reports I have seen says they are hitching rides on top of trains. So we could just blow up a few trains and probably at least slow them down. Just warn the countries in central America and Mexico if they keep coming that is what we are going to do and if they don't stop just start bombing trains, track, trestle crossings, bridges roads or sinking all their ship or however they try to get here. We should not continue to put up with this invasion. Just hang them all at the border and incinerate the bodies.

Nobody really cares. Just not in my back yard.

 

[smackababy]

This is going to happen no matter what we do with immigration. We have to solve that problem separately. If we do so then unskilled immigrants will not be a problem, if we fail then they won't want to come here anymore anyway.

This is true, but the problem is only going to be exacerbated by allowing more unskilled labor into the US. We can't sustain a policy of

Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses, yearning to breath free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore,
Send these, the homeless, tempest tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.

 

[SMOGZINN]

This is true, but the problem is only going to be exacerbated by allowing more unskilled labor into the US. We can't sustain a policy of

I guess I feel that any solve for that problem would have to be able to scale up to almost any size, if it can't then it is just a temporary bandaid holding us over until our population gets to large.

 

[schmuckley]

My opinion is:It's all a smokescreen to smuggle some mega-virus infected people into the country to distribute plague everywhere.

 

[JTsyo]

I dislike illegal immigration for the same reason I dislike the line cutter on the freeway that drive ahead and merge right at the ramp when traffic is backed up. There is a proper way to do things and we should enforce the laws of the nation. The current system is very unfair to legal immigrants from the same region that spend a lot of time and money immigrating to the US while the rule breakers get in first and are living here for years before the others can immigrate.

Our immigration requirements might need to be tweaked to allow the type of workers we need but we shouldn't turn a blind eye to illegal immigration because we need workers. Adjust policy as needed but uphold the law.

 

[cabri]

The reports I have seen says they are hitching rides on top of trains. So we could just blow up a few trains and probably at least slow them down. Just warn the countries in central America and Mexico if they keep coming that is what we are going to do and if they don't stop just start bombing trains, track, trestle crossings, bridges roads or sinking all their ship or however they try to get here. We should not continue to put up with this invasion. Just hang them all at the border and incinerate the bodies.

Nobody really cares. Just not in my back yard.

Do not need to hit the trains; people would complain about the loss of life.

Just have a few rail bridges somehow become impassible around the southern border of Mexico. It would be more humane than having to house/process/expel (laugh) the illegals.
And if Mexico stops allowing them coming through; we could even help rebuild a bridge.

 

[cabri]

I dislike illegal immigration for the same reason I dislike the line cutter on the freeway that drive ahead and merge right at the ramp when traffic is backed up. There is a proper way to do things and we should enforce the laws of the nation. The current system is very unfair to legal immigrants from the same region that spend a lot of time and money immigrating to the US while the rule breakers get in first and are living here for years before the others can immigrate.

Our immigration requirements might need to be tweaked to allow the type of workers we need but we shouldn't turn a blind eye to illegal immigration because we need workers. Adjust policy as needed but uphold the law.

The current run of illegals has nothing to do with our economic need. It is the economic needs of those that are arriving and or being helped to arrive; knowing that once they are in, it is very unlikely that they will be shipped out.

 

[smackababy]

I guess I feel that any solve for that problem would have to be able to scale up to almost any size, if it can't then it is just a temporary bandaid holding us over until our population gets to large.

I think that will end up being a problem we will never solve. With the advancement of technology and medicine, people are living long and long. We are eliminating pretty much every natural cause of death except for grave accident or old age. At some point, we won't be able to sustain this population growth and mass starvation will occur. That isn't likely to happen for a long time, but the immigration problem mirrors it on a smaller scale.

Eventually, most jobs will be replaced with technology. I fear we will, as a race, will die off due to advancing farther and farther into laziness.

 

[alcoholbob]

Its good if you are the democratic party. Bad if you want functioning social services by the time you have grandkids.

 

[Craig234]

Its good if you are the democratic party. Bad if you want functioning social services by the time you have grandkids.

This has nothing to do with the Democrats getting new votes. That's a propagandistic slur to hide the moral and humanitarian and legitimate immigration issues by claiming one side has only one concern, the selfish collection of votes, making them wrong without ever having to consider the actual issues I listed. Sometimes good policy and political interests overlap.

Should we say the only reason Republicans oppose abortion is to get new voters who are grateful that Republicans kept them from being aborted? Makes as much sense.

And your 'functioning social services' is nonsense. The actual threat to them is Republican policy, not immigrants who are a net boost to the economy.

Not to mention that the issue at hand is not normal immigration, but the human rights issue of asylum for children fleeing very dangerous places.

Places so dangerous because we send billions to drug cartels.

 

[chucky2]

Ahhh the human rights narrative that immediately was latched upon. This is Discussion Club, we're supposed to not be crapping it up with propaganda...

 

[Craig234]

Ahhh the human rights narrative that immediately was latched upon. This is Discussion Club, we're supposed to not be crapping it up with propaganda...

Excuse me, but the propaganda is yours.

It's a *fact* that there are major drug cartels, funded mostly by the US drug consumers, operating in those countries, and bringing massive violence to the civilians there, recruiting children to either serve them in the drug and sex slave trades or killing them. It's a fact that the three countries nearly all these children come from have some of the worst rates of murder in the world, behind only Syria.

It's a *fact* that the law calls for a review of each child's situation as to whether it meets the standards for refugee protection from real danger at home, to get one of the few spots available for such refugees, and that the large majority of the children will get that review and as a result be deported.

The 'human rights narrative' is the correct one, and the propaganda is YOU simply saying it's wrong, without any evidence presented to back up your point.

So, the propaganda here is from you, propagandizing for children to be killed to meet your crazed and blind political views on immigration issues.

 

[chucky2]

That is not a US problem. The kids can go elsewhere. They should not even be able to cross our border to become our 'humanatarian' problem. The End.

 

[SMOGZINN]

That is not a US problem. The kids can go elsewhere. They should not even be able to cross our border to become our 'humanatarian' problem. The End.

But they are here, that does make them our problem.
Fin.

 

[chucky2]

March kids where they came from, Mexico, problem solved. What does that cost? Bottle of water and a P&B sandwich?

 

[cabri]

This has nothing to do with the Democrats getting new votes. That's a propagandistic slur to hide the moral and humanitarian and legitimate immigration issues by claiming one side has only one concern, the selfish collection of votes, making them wrong without ever having to consider the actual issues I listed. Sometimes good policy and political interests overlap.

Should we say the only reason Republicans oppose abortion is to get new voters who are grateful that Republicans kept them from being aborted? Makes as much sense.

And your 'functioning social services' is nonsense. The actual threat to them is Republican policy, not immigrants who are a net boost to the economy.

Not to mention that the issue at hand is not normal immigration, but the human rights issue of asylum for children fleeing very dangerous places.

Places so dangerous because we send billions to drug cartels.

Ahhh the human rights narrative that immediately was latched upon. This is Discussion Club, we're supposed to not be crapping it up with propaganda...

Excuse me, but the propaganda is yours.

It's a *fact* that there are major drug cartels, funded mostly by the US drug consumers, operating in those countries, and bringing massive violence to the civilians there, recruiting children to either serve them in the drug and sex slave trades or killing them. It's a fact that the three countries nearly all these children come from have some of the worst rates of murder in the world, behind only Syria.

It's a *fact* that the law calls for a review of each child's situation as to whether it meets the standards for refugee protection from real danger at home, to get one of the few spots available for such refugees, and that the large majority of the children will get that review and as a result be deported.

The 'human rights narrative' is the correct one, and the propaganda is YOU simply saying it's wrong, without any evidence presented to back up your point.

So, the propaganda here is from you, propagandizing for children to be killed to meet your crazed and blind political views on immigration issues.

Craig

You are the one that is trying to bring politics into the discussion along with Astrallite. One line comments was made and you started into with paragraphs :thumbsdown:

I bolded your comments relating to it in your quoted post.

 

[Craig234]

Craig

You are the one that is trying to bring politics into the discussion along with Astrallite. One line comments was made and you started into with paragraphs :thumbsdown:

I bolded your comments relating to it in your quoted post.

Wrong. I was responding to the post that brought politics into the discussion, saying 'that's good if you're the Democratic Party', implying all they care about is more voters.

 

[Craig234]

That is not a US problem. The kids can go elsewhere. They should not even be able to cross our border to become our 'humanatarian' problem. The End.

Except, Chucky, some people have some morals, not everyone holds your views.

See someone hit by a car, stop and get help. See your neighbor fall down and get hurt, get help. See a robbery occurring, stop and call the police. People flee danger from the holocaust in Nazi Germany, don't send them back. People flee political persecution from Fidel Castro, don't send them back. See people in the ocean hanging on to wreckage, don't sail on ignoring them.

There are a lot of traditions to help people in danger and need, form people with some morals, who don't have your views.

And that's the process here - children possibly in danger from sex traffickers, drug cartels, and so on, do not send them back to be killed. Welcome them as refugees.

And oh by the way, we do a hell of a lot more to cause the dangers they face with our country sending billions to drug cartels than Mexico does.

I hope you don't talk about 'taking responsibility' when you are so opposed to doing so.

 

[chucky2]

'Because the children' is almost always the cover story to push some pet political BS upon the US Citizen, read, Taxpayer, read, Sucker. It's why we have the "Patriot" Act, etc. etc. etc. Shroud it in a phrase and concept that the average American doesn't want to be against and the people pulling the strings can pull them all that much more easily. When the news on this first broke, the 'humanatarian' schtick wasn't out yet, it took a good couple of days for some staffers to cook up the perfect cover to 'never waste a crisis'. Save the paragraphs of self gratification, we all understand exactly what this is: The continuation of Open Borders as America has been doing it for the past 40 years or so, just with that much more push to woo the average American voter into gradually becoming so numb to it, it can become official just like gay "marriage" did.

Both sides of the aisle are doing all they can in their own way to ensure they do what they can for their respective bases and win over that all important growing latino voting demographic. Keep up the good work I say, it's only F'ing over current US citizens that much more...for what? For problems that aren't ours, never should be ours, and don't need to be ours.

 

[Craig234]

'Because the children' is often abused to justify bad policy. Not always. Not on this issue. You are unable to tell the difference, going by your posts.

 

[SMOGZINN]

For problems that aren't ours, never should be ours, and don't need to be ours.

You keep saying that, but never address that this problem was caused by our hands, is sitting in our house, and is not going to go away. How exactly is this not our problem?

 

[solsa]

USA became the top country in the world because it attracted the most talented and hard-working people from the old world over the centuries. If it want to be remain at the top, it has no way but to keep doing that. I am no immigration expert but what I believe is the current immigration system of USA is flawed (although it is much better in comparison to other Western countries.)
The problem can be explained like this:
If you are a person who has the money or the skills to contribute to the American society, it is extremely difficult for you to immigrate to USA through legal ways. Say you are a Ph.D. or you have several 100K dollars and you are ready to come to USA and invest or work as quality labor. The bureaucracy is basically inhibitive. So many international students study in US colleges and find it easier to take the science back to their country instead of suffering the steps that can lead to legal residency. So many people around the world have a lot of money and would add their money ot the US economy only if they could.
On the other hand, an easier way for immigrating to USA exists. Pass the border undetected, hide around, avoid authorities and work without paying taxes. Our system has actually made illegal immigration easier than legal immigration based on contributing to this society.

 

[chucky2]

'Because the children' is often abused to justify bad policy. Not always. Not on this issue. You are unable to tell the difference, going by your posts.

On this issue, it's the same as every other time the "immigration" (code word for Open Borders as the illegal is dropped): Heart Bleed over a problem that is not ours. You could inform the Mexican consulate that these kids will be dropped off on the Mexican side of the border at XZ coordinate in 2 business days with a taco and a bottle of water. Then do it. It is now Mexico's problem again - that they intentionally allow to happen because it's like a quadruple win for them.

You keep saying that, but never address that this problem was caused by our hands, is sitting in our house, and is not going to go away. How exactly is this not our problem?

See above. Lift kids out of house, place them in misbehaving neighbors house. The problem is now away for the time being. Every sob story is not our problem.

I get it: The narrative must be pushed each and every time that "it's humanitarian". That cuts through the 'Hey they need to follow our laws' and gets the requisite heart bleed going so they can stay, which is the ultimate goal of the Open Borders folks. That their country Leadership can't manage itself effectively, is a shithole, and they're going a couple thousand miles before they can find any other place other than their shithole to reside really should not be our problem. These kids are no different than <insert any other shithole kids> that want to come here.

And before anyone points out "Oh but this is because of the law Bush passed, so gosh darn, we just can't, can't circumvent that!", I don't give a F. Ignore that law like all the other laws that we happen to ignore.

Chuck