Curiousity: Small engines in each class?

[Stumps]

rice rice baby

 

[Triumph]

Originally posted by: Viper GTS

Originally posted by: Stumps
Taurus SHO was a V6, ford australia was looking at the powerplant for the falcon, but decided on a DOHC version of the excellent 4Litre inline 6, over 1000hp in turbo form, check www.NIZPRO.com.au

The last generation SHO was a V8. It sucked (and ate trannies IIRC).

Viper GTS

It sucked in a Taurus, for sure. But it was an awesome engine, designed by Yamaha. I can't think of any product that Yamaha makes that isn't at least respectable. (That includes engines, motorcycles, boats, stereos, and pianos!)

 

[Triumph]

Originally posted by: Heisenberg
Not to distract from M4H's penile displacement, but doesn't Ferrari or Lamborghini make a V12 that's only like 4 or 5 liters?

The Ferrari 365 GTB "Daytona." It had a 4.4 liter V12. But that was a revised engine from the 275 GTB/4, which was only 3.3 liters. The 4.4 put out 350hp at 7500 rpm. Those are pretty good numbers, especially considering the time (~1970).

 

[Stumps]

ahhh that was the 3Litre that was a yamaha V6, cause ford Australia made a big thing about it, but to many protests saw the good ole I6 used again, I didn't know that they had a V8 version, hmm wonder why ford didn't use the mustang 4.6Litre or 5.4litre?

 

[AStar617]

Not reading the whole thread... but BMW's 94-95 530i featured a naturally aspirated 3.0L V8. Notorious along with the 4.0L V8 for the infamous leakdown recall due to sulphur in US gas interacting with the nickel in the nikasil (nickel-aluminum-silicon) blocks... you could get a complete Alusil (Aluminum-silicon) block swap done by the dealer if you failed the test within the recall period. :shocked:

I went Bimmer shopping right on the end of the 6-year/80k mi recall cutoff, and after receiving one too many blank stares from used car lot salesmen regarding leakdown test results, was ultimately forced to go with a 525i (2.5L I6) to avoid possibly being stuck with a $6-7000 job on my hands.

 

[loic2003]

Not to distract from M4H's penile displacement, but doesn't Ferrari or Lamborghini make a V12 that's only like 4 or 5 liters?

Only? 4 litres is a fvcking huge engine. It's all about efficiency, not just engine size. It does annoy me slightly that there are so many people shocked at these 'tiny' engines. Look at the speed a Scooby can do with a 2 litre motor and some fancy electronics... granted it's got a turbo the size of a church strapped onto it but that's beside the point.

A fat V8 5 litre chevvy block or whatever will have loads of low-end torque, much like a tractor, but the engine itself will be so heavy (coupled with the fuel tank to pump gallons into that mother nature-shafting engine) that when the car tries to make it round a corner it will simply refuse. Then when it comes to racing you're SOL and have to either race in a straight line (drag, tractor pulling, monster truck racing etc) or at best go round a nice gentil oval.

Not to mention fuel consumption. Put it this way, a Hummer when given grief will go as low as ~1MPG (or 1 GPM!) compared to a **747 jet** with four pretty chunky jet engines which uses a mere 2.5GPM, and it can transport ~700 people!

European engines are very well engineered and achieve great efficiency with decent power. The japanese are still the kings of building engines IMO.

 

[Triumph]

Originally posted by: loic2003

Not to distract from M4H's penile displacement, but doesn't Ferrari or Lamborghini make a V12 that's only like 4 or 5 liters?

Only? 4 litres is a fvcking huge engine. It's all about efficiency, not just engine size. It does annoy me slightly that there are so many people shocked at these 'tiny' engines. Look at the speed a Scooby can do with a 2 litre motor and some fancy electronics... granted it's got a turbo the size of a church strapped onto it but that's beside the point.

A fat V8 5 litre chevvy block or whatever will have loads of low-end torque, much like a tractor, but the engine itself will be so heavy (coupled with the fuel tank to pump gallons into that mother nature-shafting engine) that when the car tries to make it round a corner it will simply refuse. Then when it comes to racing you're SOL and have to either race in a straight line (drag, tractor pulling, monster truck racing etc) or at best go round a nice gentil oval.

You don't know much, do you? Lets name a few V8, V10, and V12 powered cars that also outhandle anything else on the road: Corvette, Viper, Gallardo, Murcielago, CTS-V, S4, M5, properly tuned 5.0 Mustang, properly tuned F-body, any Ferrari...

Sure there are many V8's that can't handle worth squat. But blanket statements like yours don't give you any credibility.

 

[loic2003]

Originally posted by: Triumph

Originally posted by: loic2003

Not to distract from M4H's penile displacement, but doesn't Ferrari or Lamborghini make a V12 that's only like 4 or 5 liters?

Only? 4 litres is a fvcking huge engine. It's all about efficiency, not just engine size. It does annoy me slightly that there are so many people shocked at these 'tiny' engines. Look at the speed a Scooby can do with a 2 litre motor and some fancy electronics... granted it's got a turbo the size of a church strapped onto it but that's beside the point.

A fat V8 5 litre chevvy block or whatever will have loads of low-end torque, much like a tractor, but the engine itself will be so heavy (coupled with the fuel tank to pump gallons into that mother nature-shafting engine) that when the car tries to make it round a corner it will simply refuse. Then when it comes to racing you're SOL and have to either race in a straight line (drag, tractor pulling, monster truck racing etc) or at best go round a nice gentil oval.

You don't know much, do you? Lets name a few V8, V10, and V12 powered cars that also outhandle anything else on the road: Corvette, Viper, Gallardo, Murcielago, CTS-V, S4, M5, properly tuned 5.0 Mustang, properly tuned F-body, any Ferrari...

Sure there are many V8's that can't handle worth squat. But blanket statements like yours don't give you any credibility.

You don't read much do you?:disgust: When did I mention the engine layout? The engine could be a V8/straight 4/flat 6/rotary/whatever.... My point was that you can increase efficiency out of smaller engines and create a better performing car rather than shoving a fat high capacity engine. Get 2 rolling chassis, put a huge 5L V8 in one and a really well tuned lightweight 2.5 or 3L in the other. The smaller engined car will be quicker around the twisty stuff and very likely faster in a line.

 

[Triumph]

When did you mention the layout? You said it right there, "A fat V8 5 liter Chevy block or whatever"!! Your point about efficiency was lost in your nonsensical blanketing of all V8's as low revving, gas hogging, non-turning wastes.

Get 2 rolling chassis, put a huge 5L V8 in one and a really well tuned lightweight 2.5 or 3L in the other. The smaller engined car will be quicker around the twisty stuff and very likely faster in a line.

If the added mass of the V8 is offset by the additional power, such that the power to weight ratio of the V8 is better than that of the I4 or 6, then no, the smaller engined car will not necessarily be quicker.

 

[loic2003]

Originally posted by: Triumph
When did you mention the layout? You said it right there, "A fat V8 5 liter Chevy block or whatever"!! Your point about efficiency was lost in your nonsensical blanketing of all V8's as low revving, gas hogging, non-turning wastes.

What you on about? I never blanketed all V8's as you claim. Stop putting words in my mouth. My point, like I already has explained to you, is about *capacity*. The emphasis on the above sentence you quoted should be on the 5 liter capacity rather than the engine configuration.

Originally posted by: Triumph
If the added mass of the V8 is offset by the additional power, such that the power to weight ratio of the V8 is better than that of the I4 or 6, then no, the smaller engined car will not necessarily be quicker.

Yes... of course it's possible, it's a bigger engine, so if you fitted it with a massive turbo you obviously could burn more fuel per second = more power than a smaller engine with a proportionally sized turbo, etc. You're missing my point and I can't be fvcked to explain it to you.

Put it this way, a 2.5 Evo managed to go quicker round a twisty course than a murcielago in one test. It's not all about raw capacity.

 

[Triumph]

Oh I understand your point. It's just that you're misinformed about large displacement engines. Many V8's can be very high revving, some are lighter than V6's, some are just as efficient (or inefficient) as a turbo 4.

Put it this way, a 2.5 Evo managed to go quicker round a twisty course than a murcielago in one test. It's not all about raw capacity.

So what? And I can find numerous examples of heavy cars that outhandle any 4 cylinder on nearly any track you want to mention. You and I can sit here all day and cite specific examples of where car A beat car B, but in the end, you still said what you said: a Chevy V8 can't do anything but go in a straight line.

 

[Iron Woode]

I see loic2003 is trolling for attention.

He should add this disclaimer every time he posts in a car thread:

"Oh look, I have never driven a real car in my life, as I am only 15. But I know everything because I am a member of every import message board there is. And of course imports rule all. American V8s are just heavy iron junk that make no power and if it isn't turbocharged than it is junk too."


Here is a clue for the clueless:

comparing engines and then claiming a car is faster or handles better than other without any qualifying information is stupid.

Grow up and learn to form coherent sentences.

 

[Colt45]

Oh, yeah. East German "Trabants" In the 50's and 60's came with a:

500cc 2cyl. 2 stroke aircooled engine. 18hp iirc?

The body was made out of.. what was it called.. 'duroplast' (?). It was a plastic made from cotton+resin (iirc). so like.. cotton-plastic, same idea as fiberglass, but cotton instead of glass

 

[Stumps]

Originally posted by: loic2003

Not to distract from M4H's penile displacement, but doesn't Ferrari or Lamborghini make a V12 that's only like 4 or 5 liters?

Only? 4 litres is a fvcking huge engine. It's all about efficiency, not just engine size. It does annoy me slightly that there are so many people shocked at these 'tiny' engines. Look at the speed a Scooby can do with a 2 litre motor and some fancy electronics... granted it's got a turbo the size of a church strapped onto it but that's beside the point.

A fat V8 5 litre chevvy block or whatever will have loads of low-end torque, much like a tractor, but the engine itself will be so heavy (coupled with the fuel tank to pump gallons into that mother nature-shafting engine) that when the car tries to make it round a corner it will simply refuse. Then when it comes to racing you're SOL and have to either race in a straight line (drag, tractor pulling, monster truck racing etc) or at best go round a nice gentil oval.

Not to mention fuel consumption. Put it this way, a Hummer when given grief will go as low as ~1MPG (or 1 GPM!) compared to a **747 jet** with four pretty chunky jet engines which uses a mere 2.5GPM, and it can transport ~700 people!

European engines are very well engineered and achieve great efficiency with decent power. The japanese are still the kings of building engines IMO.

If you call 4 Litres, huge what the hell do you call a bigblock 454 chev or 460 ford V8 then, they are around the 7.5Litre mark, I know of 5 Litre Ford and Holden V8's that can get close to 30mpg and absoulty waste a turbo Supra or Skyline, Just because it's a V8 don't make it heavy and slow, what about the LS1 and LS6 Chev V8's, all alloy, get better than 30mpg (In GMH Commodores and Monaro's) and bloody hammer hard!
You sound like another Rice boy who hasn't driven anything but his mums Hyundia Excel!

 

[Stumps]

Most of Australia's fastest street registered cars are 4 door sedans with 3 and 4 litre sixes in them, in aussie speed publication you don't see many 4 bangers at the top of the charts as far as top street drag cars go, It's usually Six cylinder turbo Falcons or commodore or V8 version's, and the odd rotary..cause there cool as well!, these cars cover the quater mile in less than 9 seconds and have full interiors and are daily driven, all the fast 4 pots are stripped out "GOKARTS" and can't really be driven on the street, as the old saying goes, "there ain't no susbtute for cubic inches"

 

[CrackRabbit]

Originally posted by: Stumps
Most of Australia's fastest street registered cars are 4 door sedans with 3 and 4 litre sixes in them, in aussie speed publication you don't see many 4 bangers at the top of the charts as far as top street drag cars go, It's usually Six cylinder turbo Falcons or commodore or V8 version's, and the odd rotary..cause there cool as well!, these cars cover the quater mile in less than 9 seconds and have full interiors and are daily driven, all the fast 4 pots are stripped out "GOKARTS" and can't really be driven on the street, as the old saying goes, "there ain't no susbtute for cubic inches"

Thats "no replacement for displacement" but you had the right idea.

 

[Stumps]

no, thats how it goes in australia!

 

[Triumph]

Originally posted by: Stumps
no, thats how it goes in australia!

Well, you guys have winter when it's supposed to be summer, so it's not surprising that you'd mess up a common phrase like that.

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: CrackRabbit

Originally posted by: Stumps
Most of Australia's fastest street registered cars are 4 door sedans with 3 and 4 litre sixes in them, in aussie speed publication you don't see many 4 bangers at the top of the charts as far as top street drag cars go, It's usually Six cylinder turbo Falcons or commodore or V8 version's, and the odd rotary..cause there cool as well!, these cars cover the quater mile in less than 9 seconds and have full interiors and are daily driven, all the fast 4 pots are stripped out "GOKARTS" and can't really be driven on the street, as the old saying goes, "there ain't no susbtute for cubic inches"

Thats "no replacement for displacement" but you had the right idea.

Yeah... there is.

 

[Stumps]

and what might that be?

 

[Stumps]

Originally posted by: Triumph

Originally posted by: Stumps
no, thats how it goes in australia!

Well, you guys have winter when it's supposed to be summer, so it's not surprising that you'd mess up a common phrase like that.

EAT ME!

 

[Iron Woode]

Originally posted by: Stumps
Most of Australia's fastest street registered cars are 4 door sedans with 3 and 4 litre sixes in them, in aussie speed publication you don't see many 4 bangers at the top of the charts as far as top street drag cars go, It's usually Six cylinder turbo Falcons or commodore or V8 version's, and the odd rotary..cause there cool as well!, these cars cover the quater mile in less than 9 seconds and have full interiors and are daily driven, all the fast 4 pots are stripped out "GOKARTS" and can't really be driven on the street, as the old saying goes, "there ain't no susbtute for cubic inches"

9 sec 1/4 mile? or do you mean 1/8 mile?

A nine second car would be a pain to drive on the street.

Although I do have a soft spot for the Australian Chrysler Valiant Hemi Sixpack. A factory 302 hp inline 6. It was a way cool engine.

 

[Iron Woode]

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: CrackRabbit

Originally posted by: Stumps
Most of Australia's fastest street registered cars are 4 door sedans with 3 and 4 litre sixes in them, in aussie speed publication you don't see many 4 bangers at the top of the charts as far as top street drag cars go, It's usually Six cylinder turbo Falcons or commodore or V8 version's, and the odd rotary..cause there cool as well!, these cars cover the quater mile in less than 9 seconds and have full interiors and are daily driven, all the fast 4 pots are stripped out "GOKARTS" and can't really be driven on the street, as the old saying goes, "there ain't no susbtute for cubic inches"

Thats "no replacement for displacement" but you had the right idea.

Yeah... there is.

let me know when you can replace this

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: loic2003

You don't read much do you?:disgust: When did I mention the engine layout? The engine could be a V8/straight 4/flat 6/rotary/whatever.... My point was that you can increase efficiency out of smaller engines and create a better performing car rather than shoving a fat high capacity engine. Get 2 rolling chassis, put a huge 5L V8 in one and a really well tuned lightweight 2.5 or 3L in the other. The smaller engined car will be quicker around the twisty stuff and very likely faster in a line.

stop spooging yourself over your fantasy that large v8s are bigger and heavier than european 6s

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Iron Woode
let me know when you can replace this

see the blower?