culture war

[glenn1]

OP and others are completely dead-ass wrong if they think Libertarians would somehow side with the Ferguson race rioters. Prominent LP members have supported far different assessment of the problem and have been quick to reassert the rule of law to end riots. Abuse of civil liberties is not license for you to go out and loot and burn shit, it's a wake up call to act like a reasonable citizen instead of hoodlums.

 

[rudeguy]

OP and others are completely dead-ass wrong if they think Libertarians would somehow side with the Ferguson race rioters. Prominent LP members have supported far different assessment of the problem and have been quick to reassert the rule of law to end riots. Abuse of civil liberties is not license for you to go out and loot and burn shit, it's a wake up call to act like a reasonable citizen instead of hoodlums.

The police department and the Democrat city leaders oppressed the people of Ferguson to the breaking point. People can and will only take so much before they snap. And when the boiling was reached, the city threw gas on the fire instead of trying to calm things.

The rioters did the wrong thing. But they felt they had to do something and they did it. I'll say it again: unless law enforcement and leaders start acting like the servants they are, more cities will burn

 

[rudeguy]

To be fair, most people don't know what that word really means - either what it meant in the 20th century or the 19th when Marx published. It has been too tainted by decades of propaganda for it to be "a one sentence answer" here. Many people that were born after the USSR was dismantled can now vote. Just think about that for a minute. We can't continue to use "communism" as a synonym for every political worldview to the right of Ayn Rand's Objectivism that we don't like. It needs to be viewed a bit more critically in hindsight.

Huh?

How can the OP reference Marx as an example but ignore what Marx's goal was? You can sugar coat it however you want but that won't change what Marx's goal was.

And is very dangerous to do so

 

[Atreus21]

To be fair, most people don't know what that word really means - either what it meant in the 20th century or the 19th when Marx published. It has been too tainted by decades of propaganda for it to be "a one sentence answer" here. Many people that were born after the USSR was dismantled can now vote. Just think about that for a minute. We can't continue to use "communism" as a synonym for every political worldview to the right of Ayn Rand's Objectivism that we don't like. It needs to be viewed a bit more critically in hindsight.

If there's any ideology on earth that merits the horror stories ascribed to it, it's communism.

 

[MovingTarget]

Huh?

How can the OP reference Marx as an example but ignore what Marx's goal was? You can sugar coat it however you want but that won't change what Marx's goal was.

And is very dangerous to do so

You misunderstood what I wrote. I'm not sugarcoating anything, nor ignoring the horrors of the 'communist' world. I am saying that you can no longer wrap that answer under one word and expect it to have the same reaction/gravity it once held. You need to be a bit more specific. What WAS Marx' goal? How did it line up with what we saw in the 20th century? How did it go off the rails completely from what he advocated? Or did it? Etc.

Look, I work with teenagers on a daily basis. They have grown up not having experienced any part of the Cold War. They see the visceral reaction their parents have when Communism is mentioned, but as time goes by, with the talking heads dismissing everything they don't like as "Communism", it muddies the waters a bit. If you aren't more specific about Marx and Communism, then over time it will begin to seem more as a valid alternative to look at for the younger generation. THAT is the danger I spoke of in my post.

 

[norseamd]

How can the OP reference Marx as an example but ignore what Marx's goal was? You can sugar coat it however you want but that won't change what Marx's goal was.

That was actually not what I meant what I put that in the OP. First off I was not suggesting that we start following Marxism but instead start analyzing his writings. And to many in this country even talking about minor shit that is written by communists basically means that everyone yells communism and we get this you are evil unamerican bullshit.

And the content of Marx that I was suggesting that might be worth reading was his writings on class warfare and not his writings on establishing a communist society.

Besides it was supposed to only be a side comment and not the main subject of the OP.

 

[rudeguy]

That was actually not what I meant what I put that in the OP. First off I was not suggesting that we start following Marxism but instead start analyzing his writings. And to many in this country even talking about minor shit that is written by communists basically means that everyone yells communism and we get this you are evil unamerican bullshit.

And the content of Marx that I was suggesting that might be worth reading was his writings on class warfare and not his writings on establishing a communist society.

Besides it was supposed to only be a side comment and not the main subject of the OP.

Vehemently rejecting anything related to communism is fine in my book.

Lets start fresh: What exactly are you referencing when you talk about a culture war? Please use your own description. This is the 2nd time I've heard this today.

 

[Subyman]

OP and others are completely dead-ass wrong if they think Libertarians would somehow side with the Ferguson race rioters. Prominent LP members have supported far different assessment of the problem and have been quick to reassert the rule of law to end riots. Abuse of civil liberties is not license for you to go out and loot and burn shit, it's a wake up call to act like a reasonable citizen instead of hoodlums.

I think trying to take sides with rioters or not taking sides with them is completely missing the larger issue. Riots, in and of themselves, are symptoms of larger cultural issues. Whether or not one agrees with looting, rioting, or aggressive protests is a completely separate (and IMO lesser) discussion.

Getting angry at those that loot and riot is deflecting away from the actual issue that you touch on, "abuse of civil liberties." In America we like to focus on the effects instead of the cause. This is immediately apparent in the way we treat the mentally ill. In this case, we are institutionally ill and instead of focusing back on the cause, the media likes to hone in on the rioters.

The same thing happened with Snowden. The discussion outside of technical websites was if Snowden was a traitor or not. Instead of focusing on an entire US department wantonly spying on American citizens and hacking US corporations, we are worried about the whistleblower's potential legal troubles. And even when they do draw their attention to the issues he brought to light the most common response was "Of course they are spying on us." No wonder people's rights are being violated left and right, we seem to not give a shit about them until it happens to us. Luckily, that is starting to change.

 

[mindmajick]

Well said ^^^