Cuba bans computer sales to the public...

[Amused]

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<< You have to remember that Communism relies on restricting the flow of information to the masses and replacing it with propaganda. >>

You're confusing Communism with a tyranny. Obviously you don't have a clue what Communism is about. >>



Elledan, can you tell me how can an utopic communist state be build without some serious issues with human rights, and excessive use of internal security forces up to the top of making it a police state? very interesting. I like to find flaws in these schemes... >>


Why should there be need for either of these?

These things are not part of a Communistic society, they're only used to force Communistic values onto people. Yet those wielding the power are not immune for its corrupting influence. The minds of most Humans are weak and easily influenced.

If the people in a society are willing to work as one and share all resources, they'll become the ultimate civilization: millions of individuals working as one entity, yet with the minds of countless individuals.

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Of course, Human nature is shaped in such a way that such dreams can never become reality.

But perhaps, one day... >>



Oh yes, we all dream of the day when we all can be selfless little worker bees...

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You know, you're a quite dense person.

There will be no 'worker bees', because everyone will be equal. Everyone works for themselves and everyone else, the whole community (ever wondered where the word 'Communism' came from?).

Of course, this goes all way beyond your level of comprehension, so I won't bother you with anymore of it. You might become a smart person. >>



Good gawd, you DESCRIBE a honey bee colony EXACTLY while at the same time denying that it resembles one. And you have the audacity to insult MY comprehension??? >>


You're obviously still struggling comprehending 'equality'.

A bee colony does not even remotely resemble a Communistic system. One Queen, further only slaves. Yup, equality

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The queen is not a ruler. Simply a reproduction machine that is maintained for the good of the colony. The rest of the bees selflessly support the colony, and the queen to further it's existence. All bees are equal, have equally important jobs and work towards one goal: the survival and growth of the colony. Who's comprehension is lacking?

As for slavery, that's what communism and socialism is all about: The slavery of the more productive to support the less productive. There is no incentive for innovation or harder work.

It's time to join reality, Elledan. Indivudualism IS beautiful, and it's what has made humans so successful and varied.

 

[Elledan]

<< As for slavery, that's what communism and socialism is all about: The slavery of the more productive to support the less productive. >>


So what you're suggesting is that the weaker individuals are to be eradicated or left to die? Gawd...


<< There is no incentive for innovation or harder work. >>


Communism - a theory or system of social organization in which all property is vested in the community and each person contributes and receives according to their ability and needs.
(source: Oxford Dictionary, Tenth Edition; emphasis added)

The community punishes those who refuse to work for the community.

 

[Amused]

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<< As for slavery, that's what communism and socialism is all about: The slavery of the more productive to support the less productive. >>


So what you're suggesting is that the weaker individuals are to be eradicated or left to die? Gawd... >>



No, that those who are more productive enjoy the fruits of their labor, and not be forced to give it to those who are less productive.



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<< There is no incentive for innovation or harder work. >>


Communism - a theory or system of social organization in which all property is vested in the community and each person contributes and receives according to their ability and needs.
(source: Oxford Dictionary, Tenth Edition; emphasis added)

The community punishes those who refuse to work for the community. >>



Oh, they work... Only hard enough to not get punished. Abilities that would require harder labor are hidden, and disabilities are faked. Needs are padded, and corruption abounds.

It's still time to face reality, Elledan...

Communism requires mindlessness and selflessness that is anathema to what made humans the most successful creatures on Earth in the first place.

 

[Elledan]

<< The queen is not a ruler. Simply a reproduction machine that is maintained for the good of the colony. >>

A slave, thus.


<< The rest of the bees selflessly support the colony, and the queen to further it's existence. All bees are equal, have equally important jobs and work towards one goal: the survival and growth of the colony. Who's comprehension is lacking? >>

Still yours. A bee colony still isn't an example of total equality.



<< It's time to join reality, Elledan. Indivudualism IS beautiful, and it's what has made humans so successful and varied. >>


Communism does not mean the end of individualism, in fact, it does not change anything, except the social behaviour between individuals.

I assume you're a follower of Anarchism, no?

 

[Elledan]

<< Oh, they work... Only hard enough to not get punished. Abilities that would require harder labor are hidden, and disabilities are faked. Needs are padded, and corruption abounds.

It's still time to face reality, Elledan...

Communism requires mindlessness and selflessness that is anathema to what made humans the most successful creatures on Earth in the first place. >>


Your bias is showing clearly here.

I refuted the statements made in the last sentence of the part I quoted in my previous post.

But you're still not getting the picture. If some individuals do not perform at optimum efficiency, they'll receive less resources. Those who do the most and best work are rewarded. Hard labor pays off.

BTW, you really want to suggest that corruption does not happen in a Capitalistic system? Sounds to me like you're the one who has to face reality.

 

[Amused]

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<< The queen is not a ruler. Simply a reproduction machine that is maintained for the good of the colony. >>

A slave, thus.


<< The rest of the bees selflessly support the colony, and the queen to further it's existence. All bees are equal, have equally important jobs and work towards one goal: the survival and growth of the colony. Who's comprehension is lacking? >>

Still yours. A bee colony still isn't an example of total equality.



<< It's time to join reality, Elledan. Indivudualism IS beautiful, and it's what has made humans so successful and varied. >>


Communism does not mean the end of individualism, in fact, it does not change anything, except the social behaviour between individuals.

I assume you're a follower of Anarchism, no? >>



Communism negates individualism because individualism is anathema to a society in which all work for the common good. Individualism IS ALL ABOUT the social behavior between individuals.

And no, you assume incorrectly... I'm a moderate libertarian. Learn the difference

 

[StageLeft]

<< No one in Cuba really lives a bad life (Unless you're in jail I suppose...) >>

Judging based upon money and housing that isn't true. I was there last year and saw it. You drive from airport to a nice resort and along the way there is a continual plethora of run down disgusting buildings. Even the cattle looked like they were starving. The lucky people get to drive echos (under a different name) - the rest get to drive 50's thunderbirds which, through a feat of workmanship and a good dose of luck, are still running. Of course most people can't afford even those old beaters.

The towel guy at our resort was a university grad with an engineering degree. He was about 30 and considered himself lucky to be working on the resort. Tell me that is fun? There is no opportunity there. The average person has no hope in hell of making much for their family in terms of buying them nice things or vacationing or anything else.

 

[Amused]

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<< Oh, they work... Only hard enough to not get punished. Abilities that would require harder labor are hidden, and disabilities are faked. Needs are padded, and corruption abounds.

It's still time to face reality, Elledan...

Communism requires mindlessness and selflessness that is anathema to what made humans the most successful creatures on Earth in the first place. >>


Your bias is showing clearly here.

I refuted the statements made in the last sentence of the part I quoted in my previous post.

But you're still not getting the picture. If some individuals do not perform at optimum efficiency, they'll receive less resources. Those who do the most and best work are rewarded. Hard labor pays off.

BTW, you really want to suggest that corruption does not happen in a Capitalistic system? Sounds to me like you're the one who has to face reality. >>



Um, Ellidan, you're contradicting yourself now. From each according to ability, to each according to need. Right? Those with the most NEED gain the most. NOT those with the most ability.

Please, stop trying to redefine communism to win your already LONG LOST argument. Nobody buys it.

 

[Elledan]

<< Um, Ellidan, you're contradicting yourself now. From each according to ability, to each according to need. Right? Those with the most NEED gain the most. NOT those with the most ability. >>


Assuming that those in the Communistic society are everything but mindless drones, they'll not accept an individual performing under an acceptable level and attempt to correct the error.

You were correct that I contradicted myself earlier.

However, I'm always prepared to leave an official definition of an ideology behind and improve it. Communism is a non-functioning ideology, as is every other ideology.

Nonetheless, I'm quite convinced I can make some modifications to make it work. These modifications will of course not be limited to just the ideology. Humans themselves are at their current level of development rather unsuitable for such a revolution.