CS:GO Pro players found cheating - at LANs???

[ThinClient]

Those other countries try to collect taxes as well, it's not just an American thing.

Yes, and as has already been said, tax evasion is a real thing -even easier when nobody thinks the revenue is worth pursuing due to underestimating the income.

Ah yes the guys that sell video game cheats are also highly skilled at avoiding taxes on billions of dollars in multiple countries...

It's not an impossibility.

Or maybe the profits aren't anywhere near billions of dollars and it's not a big target for the tax authorities?

That's a possibility too. However, as has already been said (again), I'd rather trust someone's comments who is actively involved in running sites like these instead of some Joe Blow on the Anandtech gaming sub forum.

 

[Nebor]

That's a possibility too. However, as has already been said (again), I'd rather trust someone's comments who is actively involved in running sites like these instead of some Joe Blow on the Anandtech gaming sub forum.

Anyone with cursory knowledge of economics (not even classroom taught) realizes that what you're claiming is absurd. The market isn't there. If it were, we would have heard about it. If it were, the government would be all over taxing it.

Instead of accepting the easy truth, you're pushing for the ridiculous exception: That very savvy hacker\programmers are selling monthly subscriptions worth billions of dollars in total to a huge number of competitive and non-competitive gamers AND evading the taxes owed for doing so. Could you work some government conspiracies in there while you're at it?

 

[ThinClient]

So says you. You seem really mad about this.

 

[Ampersand38]

PC Gamer had a nicely researched article on the cheating business.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

PC Gamer had a nicely researched article on the cheating business.

I linked to this earlier. Apparently he's either completely willing to ignore it or he believes that a major cheating site having a revenue stream of somewhere between $300,000 and $1,500,000 annually means that the industry is worth billions. It's the same logic economists use to view Exxon's $40 billion in profit and conclude the energy industry is a quadrillion dollar industry. Because who needs math, statistics, evidence or common sense? This is the internet, dammit.

 

[Nebor]

PC Gamer had a nicely researched article on the cheating business.

So the largest cheating subscription website on the web is pulling maybe $1.2 million a year? That's close enough to a billion. If you're the sort that can count all the way to potato.

 

[TeknoBug]

That's not a first, back in 1999 at a local cafe that was holding a Counter-Strike LAN tournament, some guy was cheating and had his ass and PC thrown out on the street and everyone applauded.

 

[ThinClient]

I linked to this earlier. Apparently he's either completely willing to ignore it or he believes that a major cheating site having a revenue stream of somewhere between $300,000 and $1,500,000 annually means that the industry is worth billions. It's the same logic economists use to view Exxon's $40 billion in profit and conclude the energy industry is a quadrillion dollar industry. Because who needs math, statistics, evidence or common sense? This is the internet, dammit.

Or I didn't see the link because I'm too busy following the Ferguson fiasco.

There you go again, ignoring possible explanations in favor of your inflammatory rhetoric.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

Or I didn't see the link because I'm too busy following the Ferguson fiasco.

There you go again, ignoring possible explanations in favor of your inflammatory rhetoric.

Yeah, how could I possibly have assumed you'd have seen a link I posted just because you quoted my post with the link intact when replying to me? And why didn't I realize you were so caught up with Ferguson when you continued responding to this thread, doubling and tripling down on your billion dollar claim without providing a scrap of evidence even while you were ignoring the evidence you claimed to be responding to? I mean, obviously you were caught up with something else; that's why you only responded eight more times in this thread, all while continuing to ignore the only actual numbers that anyone here, including yourself, has posted. It's certainly not because you're a halfwit jackwagon idiot troll. That would be completely unbelievable; I'm frankly astonished anyone even suggested it.

But now that you've had an opportunity to check those stats, I'm sure you'd be willing to admit that your initial estimate may have been slightly exaggerated, yes?

 

[MeldarthX]

While most will dismiss this; but people need to also see this; my ex wife and I used to pay 20 pounds a month so we could 6 box on EQ. Program overlay; then run eq through that. *this was back in 2007-2010*

I used to raid when several people that would also 6 box; hell I knew a guy that 9 boxed on EQ *it was freaking nuts* That's just one of the things that is considered cheats....

The industry will very much play this down; but gold selling is also included in this cheat; the buying of items etc........all of that is also considered cheating.

I can easily see this as a billion dollar industry. I knew a guy that would sell items in EQ that was making min 10k a month; and some months he'd clear more than 20k from farming items and selling them. *again this counts towards cheating*

This isn't just inside competitive Esports; but all pc games; specially MMOs; and its very big business specially with MMOs.

I'll repost this in the other forums.

 

[werepossum]

http://www.artificialaiming.net/

That's one of the biggest ones around.

Any idiot can make hacks easily for DirectX games. The smart ones lease their hacks to sites like this for a monthly paycheck. The customer pays a monthly fee like you would for an MMO. That enables their user/pass for the parent program that manages these hacks. The program is basically an all-included package for every game advertised on the website or a one-off purchase for one month for one specific game. The all-inclusive package basically makes it easy for the customer to not have to edit all the games they own. They can just launch the game, launch the cheat manager, and poof it works.

The list of games that AA covers is impressive and the quality of the cheats are very nice.

This is a multi-billion dollar per year industry. Yes, that's with a $B.

Wow, it's own web site and everything. I always thought hacks were something traded for free or torrented.

hacks have more DRM that a frikkin EA Sports title.

it works like steam - you need to run this service and *then* run the game. the service itself cost is monthly and if you stop paying the hack fails the online activation (it's always-on), and no more hack.

also, afaik, they link hacks to one particular account so if you get banned you have to buy a new hack. (hue)

did you think hacks were still stuff you downloaded from piratebay? this is a BIG!! business. google it.

Yep, I thought exactly that. I also assumed that a hack would have a very short life within professional gaming or even among more serious gamers before it would be detected and blocked.

The DRM I can understand - you already know your customers are cheats. I guess now I'm surprised that the people who crack games and movies don't also crack hacks.

Now I understand how my CS:GO bots can headshot me with a pistol from a hundred yards while running back and forth.

 

[CraKaJaX]

I used to be into the CS scene pretty big a while back (1.6, beginning of source) and am slightly confused. I watched the videos of whatever they posted on the reddit thread and yes, (most) of it seems a bit fishy. What I'm confused about is how this was able to be done at LANs and huge tournaments? Aren't those computers used by multiple individuals throughout the tournament? As in, it's not a personal computer that he could run whatever sort of script/exe he's using beforehand and be done with it. On top of that, they have "refs" that constantly walk behind you when you're playing PLUS the entire audience is watching on huge projector screens. Did I miss something?

 

[It's Not Lupus]

I used to be into the CS scene pretty big a while back (1.6, beginning of source) and am slightly confused. I watched the videos of whatever they posted on the reddit thread and yes, (most) of it seems a bit fishy. What I'm confused about is how this was able to be done at LANs and huge tournaments? Aren't those computers used by multiple individuals throughout the tournament? As in, it's not a personal computer that he could run whatever sort of script/exe he's using beforehand and be done with it. On top of that, they have "refs" that constantly walk behind you when you're playing PLUS the entire audience is watching on huge projector screens. Did I miss something?

I guess the hacks have gotten really subtle. Some assist your aim slightly in a human-like manner. There was this other wallhack I read about which changes one pixel to a slightly different color with a press of a key. As for being able to install stuff (on your own) and the refs, that I don't get.

 

[M0oG0oGaiPan]

supposedly it increases your accuracy a slight bit. the cheat is loaded via the steam cloud so you don't need to install anything on the machine.

if you were to use the cheat it would be as if you had a really really good day of playing. it's not a super obvious cheat.

here's an article with an interview with a guy that was in that scene apparently. has some info about the cheats and how much one of those orgs could have been earning per month. 40-50k euro.
http://csgo.99damage.de/de/interviews/23269-former-cheat-coder-says-it-all

 

[TeknoBug]

Modern cheats has on-demand via a key or button, I watched one first hand in person and wasn't exactly surprised of its existence, they're usually made to hide from server admins that goes into spectator mode (the cheat also includes an alert telling you when a person is watching you), I've never cheated and I think it's beyond ridiculous and kind of hurts the legitimate gamers in some ways, just like Walmart's price matching policy changes punishing the customers because of a few measly $90 PS4 scam.

 

[ThinClient]

Yeah, how could I possibly have assumed you'd have seen a link I posted just because you quoted my post with the link intact when replying to me? And why didn't I realize you were so caught up with Ferguson when you continued responding to this thread, doubling and tripling down on your billion dollar claim without providing a scrap of evidence even while you were ignoring the evidence you claimed to be responding to? I mean, obviously you were caught up with something else; that's why you only responded eight more times in this thread, all while continuing to ignore the only actual numbers that anyone here, including yourself, has posted. It's certainly not because you're a halfwit jackwagon idiot troll. That would be completely unbelievable; I'm frankly astonished anyone even suggested it.

But now that you've had an opportunity to check those stats, I'm sure you'd be willing to admit that your initial estimate may have been slightly exaggerated, yes?

Nope.

In the callout thread intended to ridicule me, personally, someone else has also included a nice post that includes details that make the B in billion seem not unreasonable.

It doesn't matter, though. I know you'll never believe it. I know this thread will never be anything more than petty arguing.

 

[ThinClient]

Wow, it's own web site and everything. I always thought hacks were something traded for free or torrented.


Yep, I thought exactly that. I also assumed that a hack would have a very short life within professional gaming or even among more serious gamers before it would be detected and blocked.

The DRM I can understand - you already know your customers are cheats. I guess now I'm surprised that the people who crack games and movies don't also crack hacks.

Now I understand how my CS:GO bots can headshot me with a pistol from a hundred yards while running back and forth.

Good luck finding legit hacks for modern games that you DON'T pay for. Crazy, isn't it?!

 

[mnewsham]

Good thing there are only nerds at LANS or there'd be fisticuffs !

You wouldn't want to run into Pasha at LAN...

His name is pashabiceps for a reason.


Also BTRY B 529th FA BN, 98% sure I played 2-3 casual games with you on de_dust2 this morning, same name and same picture as your anandtech.

 

[mnewsham]

I used to be into the CS scene pretty big a while back (1.6, beginning of source) and am slightly confused. I watched the videos of whatever they posted on the reddit thread and yes, (most) of it seems a bit fishy. What I'm confused about is how this was able to be done at LANs and huge tournaments? Aren't those computers used by multiple individuals throughout the tournament? As in, it's not a personal computer that he could run whatever sort of script/exe he's using beforehand and be done with it. On top of that, they have "refs" that constantly walk behind you when you're playing PLUS the entire audience is watching on huge projector screens. Did I miss something?

The main "hack" currently being employed by the pros is a 10% aim increase. Essentially since these players are already at the top of the game, and have incredible aim, adding a bit of autoaim assist LOOKS fairly natural. They don't need a 360 spinning headshot, they just need a small boost in accuracy over the other pros to give them a bit of an edge. Also, these hacks are being installed via steam workshop, which is how they are managing to do it at LAN, even on a fresh windows install these hacks can be implemented as long as you have access to steam and the steam workshop.


I can't wait to see how DHW goes down this weekend, I expect to see some upsets as I think most pros will avoid any sort of aim assist just because of the scrutiny they will be under at this LAN. Or maybe one of them will be stupid enough to try it and get banned live, who knows what will happen.

 

[CraKaJaX]

The main "hack" currently being employed by the pros is a 10% aim increase. Essentially since these players are already at the top of the game, and have incredible aim, adding a bit of autoaim assist LOOKS fairly natural. They don't need a 360 spinning headshot, they just need a small boost in accuracy over the other pros to give them a bit of an edge. Also, these hacks are being installed via steam workshop, which is how they are managing to do it at LAN, even on a fresh windows install these hacks can be implemented as long as you have access to steam and the steam workshop.


I can't wait to see how DHW goes down this weekend, I expect to see some upsets as I think most pros will avoid any sort of aim assist just because of the scrutiny they will be under at this LAN. Or maybe one of them will be stupid enough to try it and get banned live, who knows what will happen.

This makes sense, but some notable moments for me are at 35, 55 secs and 1:18 in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kz-zdhIlxDI&feature=youtu.be

A LOT of these I don't find fishy - headphones and experience go a long way. You can judge where guys will be coming, where to prematurely look, spam, whatever else they're bitching about. The 10% aim definitely helps, but him locking a crosshair on a guys head who is way out of range that you can hear him is more than a 10% aim adjustment.

The upcoming tourney will definitely be interesting. The read (in the post above) is pretty good. Watch them all be terrible...... LOL

 

[mnewsham]

This makes sense, but some notable moments for me are at 35, 55 secs and 1:18 in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kz-zdhIlxDI&feature=youtu.be

A LOT of these I don't find fishy - headphones and experience go a long way. You can judge where guys will be coming, where to prematurely look, spam, whatever else they're bitching about. The 10% aim definitely helps, but him locking a crosshair on a guys head who is way out of range that you can hear him is more than a 10% aim adjustment.

The upcoming tourney will definitely be interesting. The read (in the post above) is pretty good. Watch them all be terrible...... LOL

I think Flusha is legit, I don't believe in witch hunts particularly, until someone is VAC banned I will assume most of what I see is just professional skill, unless it is HORRIBLY blatant, of which I haven't seen too many clips of that, the fact of the matter is if you CSI ANYONE that hard you will find some fishy looking scenarios. I personally think Flusha is legit, but only time will tell.

I hope valve doesn't wait until AFTER DHW to VAC ban anyone who will be competing there, i'd rather have substitutes playing than cheaters.

 

[werepossum]

Good luck finding legit hacks for modern games that you DON'T pay for. Crazy, isn't it?!

Yep. I guess I'm just naive, never thought someone could make big money selling cheats, much less that someone could use them in front of all those witnesses. Really looks like Valve should be able to effectively police anything in the Steam Cloud.

 

[Loser Gamer]

I got 12 years FPS behind me and I feel like I can spot a cheater pretty quick but the problem is I can't confirm it.

All I feel I know is I doubt some of these players don't cheat because they never ever get caught in a bad predicament or caught off guard and often have themselves in perfect spots and usually only get killed by a 3rd player not involved in the firefight causing the hacker to get in over his head. We all have the same number of human senses and when a player seems to be from another planet most likely he is.

I don't know... all I know is I am ready for some co-op Killing Floor 2 because... well you know why, no hacking used against me.

 

[tinmann]

I got 12 years FPS behind me and I feel like I can spot a cheater pretty quick but the problem is I can't confirm it.

All I feel I know is I doubt some of these players don't cheat because they never ever get caught in a bad predicament or caught off guard and often have themselves in perfect spots and usually only get killed by a 3rd player not involved in the firefight causing the hacker to get in over his head. We all have the same number of human senses and when a player seems to be from another planet most likely he is.

I don't know... all I know is I am ready for some co-op Killing Floor 2 because... well you know why, no hacking used against me.

Same here, I've been playing so long I know a lucky shot from an impossible one. After one too many impossible shots it's off to Killing Floor. Can't wait for KF2.

 

[M0oG0oGaiPan]

i'm actually glad there's more people in here that like killing floor. i can't wait for kf2 also. we should game together when it comes out.