crystal meth = terrorist WMD

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Gunslinger08

Lifer
Nov 18, 2001
13,234
2
81
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: digitalsm
Originally posted by: notfred
Any jury that is convinced that methamptheamines quailfy as weapons and convicts that guy should be shot for stupidity.

Due to the wording of the law, it doesnt have to be a weapon

"'any substance that is designed or has the capability to cause death or serious injury and or contains toxic or poisonous chemicals or their immediate precursors"

If I recall correctly crystal meth is made of toxic and poisonous chemicals.
Cigarettes
Diet Coke

hmmmmm

This D.A. should be spending his time to make harsher sentences for meth criminals instead grasping at straws.
I agree. Change the penalties for the right law. Don't use the wrong one.
 

Encryptic

Diamond Member
May 21, 2003
8,885
0
0
Originally posted by: joshsquall
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: digitalsm
Originally posted by: notfred
Any jury that is convinced that methamptheamines quailfy as weapons and convicts that guy should be shot for stupidity.

Due to the wording of the law, it doesnt have to be a weapon

"'any substance that is designed or has the capability to cause death or serious injury and or contains toxic or poisonous chemicals or their immediate precursors"

If I recall correctly crystal meth is made of toxic and poisonous chemicals.
Cigarettes
Diet Coke

hmmmmm

This D.A. should be spending his time to make harsher sentences for meth criminals instead grasping at straws.
I agree. Change the penalties for the right law. Don't use the wrong one.
I hope the courts throw this crap out. I think this is just going to lead to a slippery slope where everything gets re-interpreted as being linked to terrorism. Prosecuting meth producers is one thing, but trying to get them on trumped-up charges like this is ridiculous.

 

gigapet

Lifer
Aug 9, 2001
10,005
0
76
reminds me of the myths i heard when I was younger about getting caught with acid......it was like if you had more than 10 hits you could get conspiracy to over throw the government or something silly like that..........
 

Encryptic

Diamond Member
May 21, 2003
8,885
0
0
Originally posted by: gigapet
reminds me of the myths i heard when I was younger about getting caught with acid......it was like if you had more than 10 hits you could get conspiracy to over throw the government or something silly like that..........
LOL! :D

I've heard that one pill of X is good for 10 years in prison, though. Don't know if that's true or not, but I wouldn't put it past our wonderful government, either.
 

gigapet

Lifer
Aug 9, 2001
10,005
0
76
Originally posted by: Encryptic
Originally posted by: gigapet
reminds me of the myths i heard when I was younger about getting caught with acid......it was like if you had more than 10 hits you could get conspiracy to over throw the government or something silly like that..........
LOL! :D

I've heard that one pill of X is good for 10 years in prison, though. Don't know if that's true or not, but I wouldn't put it past our wonderful government, either.
I can only hope its a typo, one pill of x should be life in prison. Come on we only have 2.6% of the population behind bars, I know we can do better than that.
 

Beau

Lifer
Jun 25, 2001
17,731
0
76
www.beauscott.com
Originally posted by: gigapet
reminds me of the myths i heard when I was younger about getting caught with acid......it was like if you had more than 10 hits you could get conspiracy to over throw the government or something silly like that..........
I heard you got charged with one count of attempted murder per hit of acid (friend was told that by a police drug counseller)

edit: actualy penalty is 5 years to life
 

Originally posted by: Howard
Originally posted by: FallenHero
yea! SWEET! Lets make it so our prison system is even MORE crowded than it already is!
Real smart comment.
your right. Why charge them with the law that was meant for that crime when instead we can charge them with anything just by bending it ever so slightly. If the legislator really wanted 12 to life for meth labs, they would have made a law about it, not this silly "anti-terrorism" bullcrap that seems to go around.
 

gigapet

Lifer
Aug 9, 2001
10,005
0
76
Originally posted by: Beau
Originally posted by: gigapet
reminds me of the myths i heard when I was younger about getting caught with acid......it was like if you had more than 10 hits you could get conspiracy to over throw the government or something silly like that..........
I heard you got charged with one count of attempted murder per hit of acid (friend was told that by a police drug counseller)

edit: actualy penalty is 5 years to life
the way that law is written is they weigh what the acid is on so if you put one small eye dropper amount on an apple. They weigh the whole apple as if it were pure lsd and base your penalty on that. Great law. Thats like siezing a truck carrying coke and including the weight of the truck in the amount of coke siezed.
 

Double Trouble

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,272
103
106
The fundamental problem with this is that the DA is basically trying to use a law for something it was not intended for, because the legislature has seen it fit to make laws that the DA thinks are "woefully insufficient". What's he's forgetting is that the legislature is to decide what is 'insufficient', not him. He doesn't get to judge the laws, only enforce them as they are.

This will get tossed out of court by any decent judge.......
 

aircooled

Lifer
Oct 10, 2000
15,965
0
0
Originally posted by: Encryptic
Originally posted by: gigapet
reminds me of the myths i heard when I was younger about getting caught with acid......it was like if you had more than 10 hits you could get conspiracy to over throw the government or something silly like that..........
LOL! :D

I've heard that one pill of X is good for 10 years in prison, though. Don't know if that's true or not, but I wouldn't put it past our wonderful government, either.

One of my friends got 5 years for a hit of acid and some weed (suspend sentence, 90 days served the remainder parole/probation)

 

stormbv

Diamond Member
Dec 23, 2000
3,446
1
0
This is pretty lame.

Adolf Hitler was a meth addict. He also used to literally cream his shorts when he gave speeches. What a freak.
 

lowtech1

Diamond Member
Mar 9, 2000
4,644
1
0
Originally posted by: digitalsm
Originally posted by: notfred
Any jury that is convinced that methamptheamines quailfy as weapons and convicts that guy should be shot for stupidity.

Due to the wording of the law, it doesnt have to be a weapon

"'any substance that is designed or has the capability to cause death or serious injury and or contains toxic or poisonous chemicals or their immediate precursors"

If I recall correctly crystal meth is made of toxic and poisonous chemicals.
You can also died from Tylenol, sleeping pills, alcohol overdose, and not to mention gasoline, propane, and natural gas.

 

Beau

Lifer
Jun 25, 2001
17,731
0
76
www.beauscott.com
Originally posted by: lowtech
Originally posted by: digitalsm
Originally posted by: notfred
Any jury that is convinced that methamptheamines quailfy as weapons and convicts that guy should be shot for stupidity.

Due to the wording of the law, it doesnt have to be a weapon

"'any substance that is designed or has the capability to cause death or serious injury and or contains toxic or poisonous chemicals or their immediate precursors"

If I recall correctly crystal meth is made of toxic and poisonous chemicals.
You can also died from Tylenol, sleeping pills, alcohol overdose, and not to mention gasoline, propane, and natural gas.
Sure you can, in mass quantities. But the real damage from crystal meth isn't just it's physical effects, but it psychological effects, too.

Read this (taken from here)

What are the medical complications of methamphetamine abuse?
Methamphetamine can cause a variety of cardiovascular problems. These include rapid heart rate, irregular heartbeat, increased blood pressure, and irreversible, stroke-producing damage to small blood vessels in the brain. Hyperthermia (elevated body temperature) and convulsions occur with methamphetamine overdoses, and if not treated immediately, can result in death. Chronic meth methamphetamine abuse can result in inflammation of the heart lining, and among users who inject the drug, damaged blood vessels and skin abscesses. Methamphetamine abusers also can have episodes of violent behavior, paranoia, anxiety, confusion, and insomnia. Heavy users also show progressive social and occupational deterioration. Psychotic symptoms can sometimes persist for months or years after use has ceased. Acute lead poisoning is another potential risk for methamphetamine abusers. A common method of illegal methamphetamine production uses lead acetate as a reagent. Production errors may therefore result in methamphetamine contaminated with lead. There have been documented cases of acute lead poisoning in intravenous methamphetamine abusers. Fetal exposure to methamphetamine also is a significant problem in the United States. At present, research indicates that methamphetamine abuse during pregnancy may result in prenatal complications, increased rates of premature delivery, and altered neonatal behavioral patterns, such as abnormal reflexes and extreme irritability. Methamphetamine abuse during pregnancy may be linked also to congenital deformities.

Why is Crystal Methamphetamine Addictive?
All addictive drugs have two things in common. They produce an initial pleasurable effect, followed by a rebound unpleasant effect. An amphetamine, through its stimulant effects, produces a positive feeling, but when it wears off it leaves a person with the opposite feelings. This is because of the suppression by the drug of the normal production of adrenaline. Now, a chemical imbalance is created and the result is irritability that physically demands more of the drug to go back to normal and feel good again. This pleasure/tension cycle leads to loss of control over amphetamines - and addiction.

The Brain?s reward system consists of various drives and needs of the body; sex, hunger, thirst and friendship. When these drives are satisfied, or when pain is relieved, a signal is sent to certain brain cells which manufacture a chemical substance that signals reward. When these monitor cells have been stimulated, a signal is sent to the tip where a small amount of this reward chemical is released. The chemical or neurotransmitter then reaches and stimulates the reward center, causing a feeling of well-being. Amphetamines produce an artificial feeling of pleasure. Most addictive drugs are able to produce pleasurable effects by chemically mimicking certain normal brain messenger chemicals which produce positive feelings in response to signals from the brain. An example of this is the narcotic drug which mimics endorphin (nature's natural pain reliever). This is like having counterfeit money which will fit into the slot machine. When the drug comes in, its stimulates the reward center. This short circuits the survival mechanism, because the reward center cell can't tell the difference between the drug and the natural chemical messenger. The result is a dependence on the immediate, fast, predictable drug which, at the same time, short circuits interests in and the motivation to make life's normal rewards work. When the amphetamine molecule comes in through the blood stream, it bypasses the natural nerve cells and causes the artificial release of normal, chemical messengers for positive feelings. What happens as a result of this is a feeling of satisfaction, well-being and relief. Then, automatically the system sends a signal of positive rewards back to the memory of this activity. The first of many pleasure hooks has been implanted into the memory. The amphetamine drug lies to both the Reward Center and to the Monitor Cell. The cell adapts to the excess stimulating effect of amphetamine by shutting down production of the natural stimulatory chemistry, to try to keep a balance.

Where Does the High Go?
The FIRST association with amphetamine has been locked in your subconscious memory. The subconscious learns through IMMEDIATE ASSOCIATION i.e. using amphetamine gives almost immediate pleasure. Your subconscious remembers that first initial "high" and actually forces you to want to recapture it. Usually a person using amphetamine never gets as big a "high" as she or he did on the FIRST dose. This is a result of the drug's ability to suppress and deplete the brain's production of the normal chemical messenger on which the brain relies to generate positive feelings. The brain adapts to the presence of amphetamine by decreasing production of the normal chemical messenger. The user then begins to use more - he has to work harder to get less and less pleasurable effect. Ultimately he crashes. As tolerance develops to the euphoric effects, higher and higher doses of amphetamine are needed to get pleasurable effects. Then, the more you use, the greater risk from toxic effects of amphetamine. People who use amphetamines often lose weight because the drug turns off the drive to eat. The drug produces a feeling of satisfaction with regard to food, even though no food was eaten. Tolerance to this effect develops. When the person stops using the amphetamine, there is usually a rebound increase in appetite as the body discovers it has been literally feeding off itself and wasting tissue.

Repetition Strengthens Memory
The memory works like a cassette recorder and stores all that the body experiences. At some time later, when "signaled," physical experiences stored in the memory can be played back. Repetition strengthens memory. Through repetition, the pleasant effects of amphetamine and the relief of painful withdrawal, become strongly programmed into the survival mechanism.

Why Does Crystal Methamphetamine Take Over Your Life?
Methamphetamine, like other addictive drugs, is able to short-circuit your survival system by artificially stimulating the reward center, or pleasure areas in your brain, WITHOUT ANYTHING BENEFICIAL HAPPENING TO YOUR BODY. As this happens, it leads to increased confidence in methamphetamine, and LESS confidence in the normal rewards of life. This first happens on a physical level. Then, it affects you psychologically. The big methamphetamine lie results in decreased interest in other aspects of life, as you increase your reliance and interest in methamphetamine. People, places and activities involved with using methamphetamine become MORE IMPORTANT. People, places and activities or lifestyles that worked through your normal reward system, before using methamphetamine, become LESS important to you. In fact, after awhile, a heavy methamphetamine user will actually RESENT people, places and activities not able to fit in with methamphetamine use. In certain studies, animals would press levers to release methamphetamine into their blood stream, no longer concerned about eating, mating or other natural drives. They will, in fact, die of starvation in the process of giving themselves methamphetamine even though food is available.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
49,620
12,218
136
I'm surprised that no one else saw this Slippery Slope coming...
 

lowtech1

Diamond Member
Mar 9, 2000
4,644
1
0
Originally posted by: Beau
Originally posted by: lowtech
Originally posted by: digitalsm
Originally posted by: notfred
Any jury that is convinced that methamptheamines quailfy as weapons and convicts that guy should be shot for stupidity.

Due to the wording of the law, it doesnt have to be a weapon

"'any substance that is designed or has the capability to cause death or serious injury and or contains toxic or poisonous chemicals or their immediate precursors"

If I recall correctly crystal meth is made of toxic and poisonous chemicals.
You can also died from Tylenol, sleeping pills, alcohol overdose, and not to mention gasoline, propane, and natural gas.
Sure you can, in mass quantities. But the real damage from crystal meth isn't just it's physical effects, but it psychological effects, too.

Read this (taken from here)

What are the medical complications of methamphetamine abuse?
Methamphetamine can cause a variety of cardiovascular problems. These include rapid heart rate, irregular heartbeat, increased blood pressure, and irreversible, stroke-producing damage to small blood vessels in the brain. Hyperthermia (elevated body temperature) and convulsions occur with methamphetamine overdoses, and if not treated immediately, can result in death. Chronic meth methamphetamine abuse can result in inflammation of the heart lining, and among users who inject the drug, damaged blood vessels and skin abscesses. Methamphetamine abusers also can have episodes of violent behavior, paranoia, anxiety, confusion, and insomnia. Heavy users also show progressive social and occupational deterioration. Psychotic symptoms can sometimes persist for months or years after use has ceased. Acute lead poisoning is another potential risk for methamphetamine abusers. A common method of illegal methamphetamine production uses lead acetate as a reagent. Production errors may therefore result in methamphetamine contaminated with lead. There have been documented cases of acute lead poisoning in intravenous methamphetamine abusers. Fetal exposure to methamphetamine also is a significant problem in the United States. At present, research indicates that methamphetamine abuse during pregnancy may result in prenatal complications, increased rates of premature delivery, and altered neonatal behavioral patterns, such as abnormal reflexes and extreme irritability. Methamphetamine abuse during pregnancy may be linked also to congenital deformities.

Why is Crystal Methamphetamine Addictive?
All addictive drugs have two things in common. They produce an initial pleasurable effect, followed by a rebound unpleasant effect. An amphetamine, through its stimulant effects, produces a positive feeling, but when it wears off it leaves a person with the opposite feelings. This is because of the suppression by the drug of the normal production of adrenaline. Now, a chemical imbalance is created and the result is irritability that physically demands more of the drug to go back to normal and feel good again. This pleasure/tension cycle leads to loss of control over amphetamines - and addiction.

The Brain?s reward system consists of various drives and needs of the body; sex, hunger, thirst and friendship. When these drives are satisfied, or when pain is relieved, a signal is sent to certain brain cells which manufacture a chemical substance that signals reward. When these monitor cells have been stimulated, a signal is sent to the tip where a small amount of this reward chemical is released. The chemical or neurotransmitter then reaches and stimulates the reward center, causing a feeling of well-being. Amphetamines produce an artificial feeling of pleasure. Most addictive drugs are able to produce pleasurable effects by chemically mimicking certain normal brain messenger chemicals which produce positive feelings in response to signals from the brain. An example of this is the narcotic drug which mimics endorphin (nature's natural pain reliever). This is like having counterfeit money which will fit into the slot machine. When the drug comes in, its stimulates the reward center. This short circuits the survival mechanism, because the reward center cell can't tell the difference between the drug and the natural chemical messenger. The result is a dependence on the immediate, fast, predictable drug which, at the same time, short circuits interests in and the motivation to make life's normal rewards work. When the amphetamine molecule comes in through the blood stream, it bypasses the natural nerve cells and causes the artificial release of normal, chemical messengers for positive feelings. What happens as a result of this is a feeling of satisfaction, well-being and relief. Then, automatically the system sends a signal of positive rewards back to the memory of this activity. The first of many pleasure hooks has been implanted into the memory. The amphetamine drug lies to both the Reward Center and to the Monitor Cell. The cell adapts to the excess stimulating effect of amphetamine by shutting down production of the natural stimulatory chemistry, to try to keep a balance.

Where Does the High Go?
The FIRST association with amphetamine has been locked in your subconscious memory. The subconscious learns through IMMEDIATE ASSOCIATION i.e. using amphetamine gives almost immediate pleasure. Your subconscious remembers that first initial "high" and actually forces you to want to recapture it. Usually a person using amphetamine never gets as big a "high" as she or he did on the FIRST dose. This is a result of the drug's ability to suppress and deplete the brain's production of the normal chemical messenger on which the brain relies to generate positive feelings. The brain adapts to the presence of amphetamine by decreasing production of the normal chemical messenger. The user then begins to use more - he has to work harder to get less and less pleasurable effect. Ultimately he crashes. As tolerance develops to the euphoric effects, higher and higher doses of amphetamine are needed to get pleasurable effects. Then, the more you use, the greater risk from toxic effects of amphetamine. People who use amphetamines often lose weight because the drug turns off the drive to eat. The drug produces a feeling of satisfaction with regard to food, even though no food was eaten. Tolerance to this effect develops. When the person stops using the amphetamine, there is usually a rebound increase in appetite as the body discovers it has been literally feeding off itself and wasting tissue.

Repetition Strengthens Memory
The memory works like a cassette recorder and stores all that the body experiences. At some time later, when "signaled," physical experiences stored in the memory can be played back. Repetition strengthens memory. Through repetition, the pleasant effects of amphetamine and the relief of painful withdrawal, become strongly programmed into the survival mechanism.

Why Does Crystal Methamphetamine Take Over Your Life?
Methamphetamine, like other addictive drugs, is able to short-circuit your survival system by artificially stimulating the reward center, or pleasure areas in your brain, WITHOUT ANYTHING BENEFICIAL HAPPENING TO YOUR BODY. As this happens, it leads to increased confidence in methamphetamine, and LESS confidence in the normal rewards of life. This first happens on a physical level. Then, it affects you psychologically. The big methamphetamine lie results in decreased interest in other aspects of life, as you increase your reliance and interest in methamphetamine. People, places and activities involved with using methamphetamine become MORE IMPORTANT. People, places and activities or lifestyles that worked through your normal reward system, before using methamphetamine, become LESS important to you. In fact, after awhile, a heavy methamphetamine user will actually RESENT people, places and activities not able to fit in with methamphetamine use. In certain studies, animals would press levers to release methamphetamine into their blood stream, no longer concerned about eating, mating or other natural drives. They will, in fact, die of starvation in the process of giving themselves methamphetamine even though food is available.
I'm not disagreeing that Meth is bad, but there has to be a line that needed to be drawn somewhere. Because, we wouldn?t have much of a society if we let the nut case making everything into a law to fit there whim.

What are we going to have next?
No Middle Eastern restaurant, because it is a potential gathering place for terrorists, and they have potential WMD such as soap, bleach, borax, and propane?
Or, we could go as far as out law brown people from owning gas station?
 

Beau

Lifer
Jun 25, 2001
17,731
0
76
www.beauscott.com
Originally posted by: lowtech

I'm not disagreeing that Meth is bad, but there has to be a line that needed to be drawn somewhere. Because, we wouldn?t have much of a society if we let the nut case making everything into a law to fit there whim.
But at the same time, if we didn't have laws or standards to build upon, how could we expect to further our progress in a social level?

 

Mill

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
28,558
3
81
Originally posted by: Vic
I'm surprised that no one else saw this Slippery Slope coming...
Politicians abuse all laws, so I am not surprised one bit. This is why laws should have to be written with CLARITY and with case notes attached. No way, should a drug crime be able to be prosecuted under this law. We need to just vote everyone out of office.
 

Double Trouble

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,272
103
106
Originally posted by: VicI'm surprised that no one else saw this Slippery Slope coming...
I wouldn't say "nobody".... I certainly saw it coming, as did many others. This is just the tip of the iceberg, we're going to see a LOT more of such "creative" use of laws by prosecutors and law enforcement in general before the inevitable backlash.

"the road to hell is paved with good intentions" -- it's very true. No matter how good the intentions behind some of these laws (such as the Patriot Act), they simply open a whole new can of worms and make it almost inevitable that they will be abused.
 

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