Cryptocoin Mining?

[Vesku]

If his UPS number is accurate, I'd have to assume he has turned off all power saving CPU features in BIOS.

Simple napkin math says a 6990 should use around 375W max, so 750 for the two of them. That is absolute max, like you get from playing with furmark, bitcoin mining doesn't stress the card that hard. Also that is stock, if you are properly underclocking the memory and reducing voltage for mining it should be significantly less. CPU *should* be 20W or less at idle. All in all with proper mining tweaks you shouldn't be anywhere close to 1.2KW, you should be around 700W max.

 

[pcm81]

If his UPS number is accurate, I'd have to assume he has turned off all power saving CPU features in BIOS.

While this is a nice academic excersize, the fct of the matter is that CPU is rated at 180W, so even if it is 0 i'd still be at 900 to 1000 watt range.

Bottom line is that 1400MHps is not worth the trouble and AC cost, even if it was 700 watts PC power and another 350 wats of AC power. I'd be making about $60/mo profit and had hot office and freezing rest of the house...

 

[taltamir]

If his UPS number is accurate, I'd have to assume he has turned off all power saving CPU features in BIOS.

Don't assume.
Besides, the guy has 4 GPUs in that machine.

 

[Chiropteran]

Don't assume.
Besides, the guy has 4 GPUs in that machine.

There are miners running quad 5970s and using less power.

Given that a 6990 should only be using about 350W mining, 1200 is nearly twice as much power as he should be using.

I mean here is a guy with 7 GPUs, nearly 3ghash pulling essentially the same power as pcm81's computer-
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=63147.0


Ultimately, he doesn't want to mine, that is fine, but the reason his setup is so inefficient is because of his lack of power saving features (I'm assuming), overclocking, failing to clock down the GPU ram, and other changeable factors. It's not like he couldn't mine and make a profit, he simply chooses not to.

Bottom line is that 1400MHps is not worth the trouble and AC cost, even if it was 700 watts PC power and another 350 wats of AC power. I'd be making about $60/mo profit and had hot office and freezing rest of the house...

And that is all that really matters.

Though with proper air circulation you shouldn't have those problems.

 

[taltamir]

There are miners running quad 5970s and using less power.

Given that a 6990 should only be using about 350W mining, 1200 is nearly twice as much power as he should be using.

There is the various inefficiencies though that crop up. Like the PSU and UPS.
Its a business machine with a focus on always on reliability. He has dual UPS so, probably dual PSU too. And who knows what else.

 

[pcm81]

There is the various inefficiencies though that crop up. Like the PSU and UPS.
Its a business machine with a focus on always on reliability. He has dual UPS so, probably dual PSU too. And who knows what else.

My system build is in my sig. I have 1000W main and 450w aux psu. CPU and GPUs are water cooled.

 

[taltamir]

And you connect those two PSUs via two UPS, correct?

 

[pcm81]

And you connect those two PSUs via two UPS, correct?

Correct. This is to avoid overloading 2 of my 750VA UPS.
450 Aux feeds the top connectors on video cards, main 1000w feeds the rest.

EDIT:
the 8-pin pcie is rated at 150W, so i only feed 2 conectors, essentially giving 300W to cards. This puts 1000W main PSU at about 850-900W and Aux PSU at 300W.

 

[Dark Shroud]

I just wanted to comment on mining during winter.

Last year I kept the gaming rig in my sig in the front room for the family. The 6970 in it wasn't strong enough to heat the room but it kept the chill out of the air.

My main mining rig has three 5870s over clocked to 900mhz. This PC will warm a room up at least 5 degrees. It was heating my bedroom and is now heating my open basement.

 

[gorobei]

just a reminder:
bitcoin hashing reward goes down from 50 to 25 when they reach the 200,000th block.

that means your coin return rate will be cut in half.

I havent calculated the eta to 200K since last summer, but my last estimate back then was somewhere around end of 2012.

 

[dajeepster]

i keep my miners in my computer room with a room ac... much more efficient than running the house AC and in fact keeps the computer room cooler than the rest of the house, the house AC runs to keep the house cool without having to offset from the heat produced in the computer room.

 

[taltamir]

i keep my miners in my computer room with a room ac... much more efficient than running the house AC and in fact keeps the computer room cooler than the rest of the house, the house AC runs to keep the house cool without having to offset from the heat produced in the computer room.

This is ONLY the case if the computer is in the same room as the thermostat, which results in overcooling the rest of the house which is wasted cooling.

If it is in a different room then the computer room will be hotter then the rest of the house, the heat will diffuse to the rest of the house, and then it will be taken care of by the house AC which is generally far more efficient then a room AC unit.

See my math earlier for actual costs

 

[dajeepster]

This is ONLY the case if the computer is in the same room as the thermostat, which results in overcooling the rest of the house which is wasted cooling.

If it is in a different room then the computer room will be hotter then the rest of the house, the heat will diffuse to the rest of the house, and then it will be taken care of by the house AC which is generally far more efficient then a room AC unit.

See my math earlier for actual costs

if i don't run a room ac (it's a floor AC unit with ducting to the window), the heat diffuses through the rest of the house, the house AC will continue to run because the computer room keeps pumping the heat out. I have 5 computers in my computer room each with 3 gpus running. the temp can get well over 120F, which causes the rest of the house to be 100F.. the AC then is running full force to trying to make up a delta of 20degrees which it doesn't because the computer room is still kicking out massive amounts of heat. which doesn't reduce the heat in the computer room.

I don't need your math for actual cost... I've got my actual cost. if i were to run my house AC, it would cost me an addition $400 dollars in electricity to cool my house to 80F, but if i use my room AC to cool the computer room, it only cost me an additional $40 dollars. Your math is right if i were to try to cool my house with a room AC, but if i'm just trying to cool a room, then to run the house AC is not efficient if i'm trying to just cool a room which is generating the heat... so, for me to cool one room with all my computers in it is much more efficient with a room AC unit than with the house unit.

i do turn on the house AC when it gets above 83F outside during the daytime, but at night time i open up the windows and put fans in the windows.

 

[taltamir]

This is NOT how thermodynamics works!

 

[taltamir]

if i don't run a room ac (it's a floor AC unit with ducting to the window), the heat diffuses through the rest of the house, the house AC will continue to run because the computer room keeps pumping the heat out. I have 5 computers in my computer room each with 3 gpus running. the temp can get well over 120F, which causes the rest of the house to be 100F.. the AC then is running full force to trying to make up a delta of 20degrees which it doesn't because the computer room is still kicking out massive amounts of heat. which doesn't reduce the heat in the computer room.

This is not how thermodynamics works!

I don't need your math for actual cost... I've got my actual cost. if i were to run my house AC, it would cost me an addition $400 dollars in electricity to cool my house to 80F, but if i use my room AC to cool the computer room, it only cost me an additional $40 dollars. Your math is right if i were to try to cool my house with a room AC, but if i'm just trying to cool a room, then to run the house AC is not efficient if i'm trying to just cool a room which is generating the heat... so, for me to cool one room with all my computers in it is much more efficient with a room AC unit than with the house unit.

i do turn on the house AC when it gets above 83F outside during the daytime, but at night time i open up the windows and put fans in the windows.

This is not because the room AC is more efficient. It is because of the OVERCOOLING effect I EXPLICITLY NAMED.
If you turn off the house AC entirely and open the windows and then cool just the one room, then operating the house AC to cool that room is going to cost more because its cooling rooms you didn't want to to a temp you didn't want. Namely, a temp below 83F.
It is not because the room AC is more efficient in cooling, its because its more efficient overall to run a less efficient unit only where you need it.

 

[dajeepster]

This is not how thermodynamics works!

I know how thermodynamics work, and i'm assuming you do also.... hot to cold... haven't you ever done the coffee with the creamer experiment.

This is not because the room AC is more efficient. It is because of the OVERCOOLING effect I EXPLICITLY NAMED.

Which why i don't run the house AC, but just the room AC. I'm killing the heat in the computer room so that it doesn't diffuse to the rest of the house... i.e. hot to cold... 2nd law of thermodynamics.

If you turn off the house AC entirely and open the windows and then cool just the one room, then operating the house AC to cool that room is going to cost more because its cooling rooms you didn't want to to a temp you didn't want. Namely, a temp below 83F.

Opening up the windows when it's above 83F outside isn't going to keep the inside of the house to 83F or below... it's going to raise the temps above 83F, that's why i run the AC when it's above 83F outside (the windows are closed when i run the house AC)

It is not because the room AC is more efficient in cooling, its because its more efficient overall to run a less efficient unit only where you need it.

which is what i said in layman's terms

 

[RussianSensation]

just a reminder:
bitcoin hashing reward goes down from 50 to 25 when they reach the 200,000th block.

that means your coin return rate will be cut in half.

I havent calculated the eta to 200K since last summer, but my last estimate back then was somewhere around end of 2012.

That is true. It looks like by December 2012 the rate will be cut in half, but we still have a solid 5 months of mining until then. Also, the value of bitcoins might rise to offset some of that block loss.

BTW, for anyone using GUI Miner with HD7900 series GPUs, I found that the flags -w 256 -f1 produced the fastest result for me. The -v flag with any number (-v1) or on its own slows down my GPU. I am getting 680 Mhash/sec using GUI Miner with HD7970 @ 1150mhz. It's probably not as fast as Diablo Miner but is very easy to use and switch between pools if servers go down, etc.

Also, rumored specs for HD8970 are hinting at 2560 SPs and 30-40% faster than HD7970:
http://www.3dcenter.org/news/eine-erste-prognose-zu-sea-islands-aka-amds-radeon-hd-8000-serie

If this comes to fruition and 28nm node matures even more, we could be looking at a nice boost in Mining as well within 6 months:

HD8970 hypothetical 1250mhz OC x 2560 SPs / 1150mhz OC x 2048 SP 7970 = 36% increase in mining speed.

 

[j&j]

bitcoin at @ $8.30

wow

 

[hawtdawg]

That is true. It looks like by December 2012 the rate will be cut in half, but we still have a solid 5 months of mining until then. Also, the value of bitcoins might rise to offset some of that block loss.

BTW, for anyone using GUI Miner with HD7900 series GPUs, I found that the flags -w 256 -f1 produced the fastest result for me. The -v flag with any number (-v1) or on its own slows down my GPU. I am getting 680 Mhash/sec using GUI Miner with HD7970 @ 1150mhz. It's probably not as fast as Diablo Miner but is very easy to use and switch between pools if servers go down, etc.

Also, rumored specs for HD8970 are hinting at 2560 SPs and 30-40% faster than HD7970:
http://www.3dcenter.org/news/eine-erste-prognose-zu-sea-islands-aka-amds-radeon-hd-8000-serie

If this comes to fruition and 28nm node matures even more, we could be looking at a nice boost in Mining as well within 6 months:

HD8970 hypothetical 1250mhz OC x 2560 SPs / 1150mhz OC x 2048 SP 7970 = 36% increase in mining speed.

Butterfly labs ASIC miners will make GPU mining completely obsolete here in about 3-4 months.

http://www.butterflylabs.com/products/

look at the stats/prices for the Bitforce SC miners. GPU mining is officially dead the moment these hit the streets. I've got 2 of the 40 GH/s ones on preorder and am probably about to start trying to get rid of my 6950's.

 

[OVerLoRDI]

Butterfly labs ASIC miners will make GPU mining completely obsolete here in about 3-4 months.

http://www.butterflylabs.com/products/

look at the stats/prices for the Bitforce SC miners. GPU mining is officially dead the moment these hit the streets. I've got 2 of the 40 GH/s ones on preorder and am probably about to start trying to get rid of my 6950's.

Yep. It was only a matter of time before ASICs ruined GPU mining, same way GPU mining destroyed CPU mining. The difference is, I think the period where ASIC mining will be very profitable will be shorter than the period when GPU mining was very profitable. GPU mining was quite profitable from November 2010 till September/October 2011. I don't think ASICs will enjoy the same profitability period as GPUs did.

 

[Smartazz]

Butterfly labs ASIC miners will make GPU mining completely obsolete here in about 3-4 months.

http://www.butterflylabs.com/products/

look at the stats/prices for the Bitforce SC miners. GPU mining is officially dead the moment these hit the streets. I've got 2 of the 40 GH/s ones on preorder and am probably about to start trying to get rid of my 6950's.

One of those systems is 1 terahashes/sec! These are very risky investments though since GPUs have other uses whereas these ASIC miners don't.

 

[OVerLoRDI]

One of those systems is 1 terahashes/sec! These are very risky investments though since GPUs have other uses whereas these ASIC miners don't.

These boxes have their uses out side of mining as well, it is just less accessible to the layman. Hashing power has applications outside bitcoin and password cracking.

 

[hawtdawg]

Yep. It was only a matter of time before ASICs ruined GPU mining, same way GPU mining destroyed CPU mining. The difference is, I think the period where ASIC mining will be very profitable will be shorter than the period when GPU mining was very profitable. GPU mining was quite profitable from November 2010 till September/October 2011. I don't think ASICs will enjoy the same profitability period as GPUs did.

I don't think anyone is really expecting it to be that way. I know I'm not. It's more about staying in the game than anything. My equipment has already paid for itself almost 2 fold (free electricity ftw!), and i should be able to afford at least 2 if not 3 of the GH/s miners by selling my hardware, and with any luck i'll enjoy increased income for a few weeks or so before it levels out again. It's hard to predict how it will all play out though, if Butterfly labs can't get many of them out the door, then GPU miners might stick around for a bit longer, meanwhile the few people who got the ASIC miners are going to be banking for a while.

 

[hawtdawg]

One of those systems is 1 terahashes/sec! These are very risky investments though since GPUs have other uses whereas these ASIC miners don't.

And this mentality will ensure that I get a bigger piece of the pie!

 

[f1sherman]

uh interesting stuff these ASICs... but the whole bitcoin thing is too volatile for my taste :\