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Cruical Or Mushkin

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Sure if I was going to overclock I'm sure you can get some good performance out of 667MHz, and really get some cheap ram, or even overclock some 800mhz sticks up to 1066, and save a bit, but as I mentioned I'm not going to do any OCs on the system, so for me I just want to get some 1066 sticks at a good deal, and so far that Mushkin XP2-8500 looks like it.

Unless you know some better deals on 8500?

THANKS
 
I know that you're not overclocking, but I don't believe that you're going to see a benefit running PC-8500 memory unless you're planning on running a divider. However, if you're stating that you want to purchase PC-8500 memory for leaving the memory alone and only overclocking the CPU, well, that makes alot more sense. Either way, I vote for Crucial. I'm running PC-6400 Ballistix at 4-4-3-6 at 1000Mhz (in Bios, CPUZ shows 950?) at the stock 2.2V.
 
Forgot to mention, yes if I have to play with the multi to get the correct speeds/timings then I'll do this, but I don't think people consider this to be overclocking, just to get the default settings on the ram.

ALOHA
 
Originally posted by: xSeongminx
I know that you're not overclocking, but I don't believe that you're going to see a benefit running PC-8500 memory unless you're planning on running a divider. However, if you're stating that you want to purchase PC-8500 memory for leaving the memory alone and only overclocking the CPU, well, that makes alot more sense. Either way, I vote for Crucial. I'm running PC-6400 Ballistix at 4-4-3-6 at 1000Mhz (in Bios, CPUZ shows 950?) at the stock 2.2V.
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I'm not overclocking the cpu, video, or ram, etc.. I'm going to run it all stock.

I'll only play with the divider/multi to ensure I get the ram speed at 1066 and the correct rated timings, which might mean a slight volt bump as well. I wouldn't be calling this an overclock, having to change the multi/divider or bumping the volts a tad, especially when they are in the rated specs of volts. hehe 🙂

ALOHA
 
Originally posted by: DasFox
Originally posted by: Howard
4-4-4-12 isn't that much faster than 5-5-5-15, and if you run the memory speed only a little faster than FSB, you'll probably run slower rather than faster than if you were to go 2:1 (memory:FSB) or whatever the regular ratio is.
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I understand all of this, but let's back up. I said originally I wanted to get XP2-6400. Later I mentioned XP2-8500, because for only about $12 more I could get this ram direct from Mushkin, and then figured why not get faster ram from 800mhz to 1066mhz for only $12 more, to me that is a great performance gain for so little money.
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But you will not get a gain in performance with DDR2-1066 memory without overclocking the CPU.

Also, it's not 800/1066MHz. Let's be clear on that.
 
Originally posted by: DasFox
Forgot to mention, yes if I have to play with the multi to get the correct speeds/timings then I'll do this, but I don't think people consider this to be overclocking, just to get the default settings on the ram.

ALOHA
Click to expand...


Any ram running at 1066 is being overclocked.

The highest JEDEC spec is DDR26400, 800 mhz.

 
Oh so when you see PC2-8500 ram, the 1066MHz speed is only obtained when you overclock to get that speed?

All along I thought that 1066MHz was the default speed it ran at.

So then if I'm not going to overclock ram, or cpu, then better to get PC2-6400?

THANKS
 
In fairness its 100% true that if you have no plans to overclock you really don't need PC8500 ... at identical timings of 4-4-4-12 @ 533mhz which is 1:1 with all current C2D's the performance of the expensive Mushkin will be close to identical to the cheapest Value-RAM on the market.

Thats not to say that there arn't valid reasons to buy the PC8500 .. first if you change your mind & decide to overclock, you will have the headroom to do so & still continue to run the RAM at 1:1 with the FSB without relaxing the timings. Also Intel is supposedly going to be releasing C2D's & Quad-cores that run on faster FSB's then 533mhz so you are future-proofing yourself somwhat for upgrades. In addition the odds are that you'll be able to run the PC8500 at MUCH tighter timings then standard 533mhz memory, maybe 3-3-3-8-1t or slightly faster if you get lucky & anyone who tells you those timings don't increase performance is incorrect.
 
Originally posted by: etech
Originally posted by: DasFox
Forgot to mention, yes if I have to play with the multi to get the correct speeds/timings then I'll do this, but I don't think people consider this to be overclocking, just to get the default settings on the ram.

ALOHA
Click to expand...


Any ram running at 1066 is being overclocked.

The highest JEDEC spec is DDR26400, 800 mhz.
Click to expand...


This depends on how you define overclocking ... technically you are correct because it is running above officially sanctioned speeds, but if the RAM-maker rates it to run at 1066mhz & thoroughly tests it at that speed, then the argument could be made that its running at specification.

 
Originally posted by: Captante
Originally posted by: etech
Originally posted by: DasFox
Forgot to mention, yes if I have to play with the multi to get the correct speeds/timings then I'll do this, but I don't think people consider this to be overclocking, just to get the default settings on the ram.

ALOHA
Click to expand...


Any ram running at 1066 is being overclocked.

The highest JEDEC spec is DDR26400, 800 mhz.
Click to expand...


This depends on how you define overclocking ... technically you are correct because it is running above officially sanctioned speeds, but if the RAM-maker rates it to run at 1066mhz & thoroughly tests it at that speed, then the argument could be made that its running at specification.
Click to expand...


The ram in question all requires raising the voltage quite a bit to run(up to 2.2v) at those "specified" speeds. For someone that isn't going to overclock I wouldn't recommend running 'hot' memory.

I agree with the lower timings is better and that is why I recommended the G.Skill HK memory earlier in this thread. It has the lowest timings at the lowest voltage that I have found.

"Also Intel is supposedly going to be releasing C2D's & Quad-cores that run on faster FSB's then 533mhz so you are future-proofing yourself somwhat for upgrades."

667 ram would cover the next round of processors at 1:1.
 
Originally posted by: etech
Originally posted by: Captante
Originally posted by: etech
Originally posted by: DasFox
Forgot to mention, yes if I have to play with the multi to get the correct speeds/timings then I'll do this, but I don't think people consider this to be overclocking, just to get the default settings on the ram.

ALOHA
Click to expand...


Any ram running at 1066 is being overclocked.

The highest JEDEC spec is DDR26400, 800 mhz.
Click to expand...


This depends on how you define overclocking ... technically you are correct because it is running above officially sanctioned speeds, but if the RAM-maker rates it to run at 1066mhz & thoroughly tests it at that speed, then the argument could be made that its running at specification.
Click to expand...
667 ram would cover the next round of processors at 1:1.
Click to expand...

This is also true, although the PC8500 would still have the potential advantages I mentioned earlier & unless you opt for Value-RAM with timings of 5-5-5-15 or higher you won't save more then about $20 stepping down to PC5300.

I will say that the Mushkin PC6400 2GB DIMMS I have do run pretty hot even at default speeds of 800mhz, so much so that I felt compelled to mount a small fan blowing directly on them, so the heat output is a valid concern.
 
Well with everything said, I want to get a E6750, or E6850 when they come out in July, so I'm planning on a 1333 Intel CPU, and then when 45nm come out and if this board is still doing ok, I'd like to upgrade to that, or I want to get a X38, but then at that point I'm probably going to go into DDR3, so actually I'm planning on hanging onto the P35 until DDR3 gets real mature and real cheap.

So I'd think that the PC8500 for some future proofing on the 1333 Intel coming, and then a 45nm is going to be good even if I'm not going to overclock, but just set it so the timings/speed are running at 5-5-4-12 1066MHz.
 
Originally posted by: DasFox
So I'd think that the PC8500 for some future proofing on the 1333 Intel coming, and then a 45nm is going to be good even if I'm not going to overclock, but just set it so the timings/speed are running at 5-5-4-12 1066MHz.
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True the PC8500 will still have headroom with the higher 1333FSB.
But even the lowly PC5400/5300 can run 1:1 with a CPU @ 1333FSB.

 
I don't get what Howard said:

Also, it's not 800/1066MHz. Let's be clear on that.

What does he mean by this?

I mean all I'm thinking is that PC6400 runs by default at 800mhz and I thought that PC8500 ran default at 1066mhz.

What speeds are we getting then from PC5400/5300 at 1:1 with a CPU @ 1333FSB?

But then we are now really talking about some overclocking on these sticks?

I'm getting a bit confused, since I'm not sitting in front of it looking at the BIOS to see all these settings.

Does AMD & Intel BIOS have different RAM settings?

I don't recall seeing any multi settings for RAM in my Abit AMD board, only a divider which I ran at 180/266/333/400/533 I think these where all the settings when I overclocked my Opteron 165. Yes I understand the division of these numbers in half, so that someone running DDR400 in the BIOS might see the divider listed as 200 or the complete number as 400. My award BIOS didn't split the numbers in half.

All this talk Mushkin tech support has been telling me about a 4:5 multi and people here talking about a 1:1 multi I've not seen these numbers in the BIOS unless this is just another way of referring to the divider settings.

P.S. I'm going to look at this BIOS on my WorkRig. Now that I think about it, my Ram settings on my GameRig showed as SPD/Multi or Divider if I'm not mistaken. BRB 😉
 
Well off the top of my head on my AMD Award bios in my GameRig before, all I saw was:

By SPD and MHZ settings nothing about any multi 1:1, 1:2, etc...

So on an Intel board DDR2 Ram settings I take are different?

THANKS
 
Originally posted by: DasFox
I don't get what Howard said:

Also, it's not 800/1066MHz. Let's be clear on that.

What does he mean by this?
Click to expand...
It means that DDR2-800 memory doesn't run at 800MHz, and DDR2-1066 doesn't run at 1066MHz. Runs at 400MHz/533MHz respectively.
 
PC5400/5300 = DDR2-667 (divided by 2) = 333MHz FSB

E6850 3GHz = 9 (clock multiplier) x 333MHz (quad-pumped 1333 FSB) = 3GHz
 
Originally posted by: DasFox
I mean all I'm thinking is that PC6400 runs by default at 800mhz and I thought that PC8500 ran default at 1066mhz.
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Depends what you mean by default. If you mean what their actual speeds are, they're 400MHz and 533MHz respectively, but if you mean "which will run faster if I just plug it in?" then the answer is "neither, on a Core 2 Duo 1066FSB, they'll all be made to run at 533MHz".

Also, pick Crucial over Mushkin. Guaranteed D9 and lifetime warranty.
 
Originally posted by: Roguestar


Also, pick Crucial over Mushkin. Guaranteed D9 and lifetime warranty.
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The Mushkin PC6400 & PC8500 both use D9 chips currently & also have a lifetime warranty.

Nothing wrong with Crucial, but those arn't valid reasons to choose one company over the other in this case.
 
Originally posted by: Roguestar
Originally posted by: DasFox
I mean all I'm thinking is that PC6400 runs by default at 800mhz and I thought that PC8500 ran default at 1066mhz.
Click to expand...

Depends what you mean by default. If you mean what their actual speeds are, they're 400MHz and 533MHz respectively, but if you mean "which will run faster if I just plug it in?" then the answer is "neither, on a Core 2 Duo 1066FSB, they'll all be made to run at 533MHz".

Also, pick Crucial over Mushkin. Guaranteed D9 and lifetime warranty.
Click to expand...

Ahh yes I keep forgetting that RAM rated speeds we see listed are divided by 2, sheesh I have to keep reminding myself about this.. 😉

Ahh I forgot about the CPU FSB, well wouldn't pushing DDR2-800 from 400mhz to 533mhz because of a C2D 1066 start pushing the ram possibly to far?

Isn't 133mhz quite an overclock on ram? I know on DDR this would be.

Also in this case, since I'm looking at E6750, or E6850 with the 1333FSB, I'd be better off getting the PC-8500 with the higher headroom.

I don't see how anyone is going to run PC6400 on a 1333FSB CPU, that's one pretty big overclock, or does DDR2 over DDR allow for much higher overclocks, and PC6400 running from 400mhz up to 666mhz is do-able?

THANKS
 
"I don't see how anyone is going to run PC6400 on a 1333FSB CPU, that's one pretty big overclock, or does DDR2 over DDR allow for much higher overclocks, and PC6400 running from 400mhz up to 666mhz is do-able? "

1333/4= 333.25 1333FSB is quad pumped.

333.25*2=667 actual bus speed times DDR2

PC6400 would still give you some head room.
 
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