CRT's vs LCD...yes I'm serious.

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Jax Omen

Golden Member
Mar 14, 2008
1,654
2
81
I have no idea how it compares to the Trinitrons, I've never owned one, but I ****ing love my 26" Doublesight. It looks so incredibly much better than my girlfriend's 19" TN-panel.



But honestly, the best thing about the LCDs, by far, is the size. Rollo's right there, having a screen that fills your view > having better color accuracy for gaming.

with the Doublesight, the only other issues I have, compared to CRTs, consist of the scaling issue (The DS has a built in scaler, but whenever you turn the monitor off it defaults back to "full"), and the obvious non-native blur issue.
 

taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
76
how much is your wide screen 40+ inch HD CRT cost? how much does it weigh? how much power does it consume?
What about the flicker? what about the aspect ratio issues caused by having to calibrate the image manually instead of each pixel being fixed and immovable. what about all the other issues?

There are some very serious issues with those behemoth's you describe... would people notice darker blacks on that CRT? sure... but you are comparing things out of their class, and ignoring all the benefits of LCDs. It is not that everyone is a sheep, it is simply that your belief of what is better differs from the vast majority of people. (and image quality isn't the only thing that differs... good luck putting a 30 inch CRT on your computer desk...)

When comparing hardware you must always compare by price.
300$ LCD vs 300$ CRT.
500$ LCD vs 500$ CRT.
1000, etc...

And remember that monitors are not ONLY about IQ. Just MOSTLY about IQ.
 

QueBert

Lifer
Jan 6, 2002
22,935
1,132
126
Originally posted by: taltamir
how much is your wide screen 40+ inch HD CRT cost? how much does it weigh? how much power does it consume?
What about the flicker? what about the aspect ratio issues caused by having to calibrate the image manually instead of each pixel being fixed and immovable. what about all the other issues?

There are some very serious issues with those behemoth's you describe... would people notice darker blacks on that CRT? sure... but you are comparing things out of their class, and ignoring all the benefits of LCDs. It is not that everyone is a sheep, it is simply that your belief of what is better differs from the vast majority of people. (and image quality isn't the only thing that differs... good luck putting a 30 inch CRT on your computer desk...)

When comparing hardware you must always compare by price.
300$ LCD vs 300$ CRT.
500$ LCD vs 500$ CRT.
1000, etc...

And remember that monitors are not ONLY about IQ. Just MOSTLY about IQ.

I don't believe a 40" HD CRT was ever manufactured, *but* if it was price wouldn't be an object. Hell I'd pay whatever it cost + whatever an uber desk that could actually support it would run me. I strongly dislike LCD's in their current state, that's why I'm spending $600 on a used CRT, it sucks I have to do it like this. But unless I want an LCD I have 2 options for a widescreen CRT, a Sony or a HP - which is just the Sony in a different housing. Both are expensive and cost an arm an a leg to ship. I go on Craigslist every day praying to find one for sell locally.

The vast majority of people buy whatever the store sells. You can't go to a B&M store and buy a new CRT any more, so it's impossible to say weather or not the people who buy LCD's every day are buying them because they want one, or just because it's all Best Buy sells. I'm sure a lot would choose LCD if they saw both, because smaller = better. And brighter picture = better image. In their minds any ways.
 

HOOfan 1

Platinum Member
Sep 2, 2007
2,337
15
81
Originally posted by: QueBert

hhere is the bottom line, most consumers are sheep who have no idea what's good and what's not. They just buy what's new.

*cough*Iphone*cough* *cough*iPod*cough*
 

natty1

Member
Apr 28, 2008
169
0
0
I can't play competitive games on an LCD because I get murdered by all the 120hz CRT users playing at 120 frames per second. This is the biggest problem.
 

konakona

Diamond Member
May 6, 2004
6,285
1
0
Originally posted by: Jax Omen
I have no idea how it compares to the Trinitrons, I've never owned one, but I ****ing love my 26" Doublesight. It looks so incredibly much better than my girlfriend's 19" TN-panel.



But honestly, the best thing about the LCDs, by far, is the size. Rollo's right there, having a screen that fills your view > having better color accuracy for gaming.

with the Doublesight, the only other issues I have, compared to CRTs, consist of the scaling issue (The DS has a built in scaler, but whenever you turn the monitor off it defaults back to "full"), and the obvious non-native blur issue.

Good to hear that you liked your DS. If you get a chance, try to get a hold of Soyo Topaz (P-MVA) and see how it compares to yours. I have no reason whatsoever to suspect they are even comparable, but just wanted some sort of confirmation for the difference with such a huge investment to be made. TIA!
 

konakona

Diamond Member
May 6, 2004
6,285
1
0
Originally posted by: taltamir
how much is your wide screen 40+ inch HD CRT cost? how much does it weigh? how much power does it consume?
What about the flicker? what about the aspect ratio issues caused by having to calibrate the image manually instead of each pixel being fixed and immovable. what about all the other issues?

There are some very serious issues with those behemoth's you describe... would people notice darker blacks on that CRT? sure... but you are comparing things out of their class, and ignoring all the benefits of LCDs. It is not that everyone is a sheep, it is simply that your belief of what is better differs from the vast majority of people. (and image quality isn't the only thing that differs... good luck putting a 30 inch CRT on your computer desk...)

When comparing hardware you must always compare by price.
300$ LCD vs 300$ CRT.
500$ LCD vs 500$ CRT.
1000, etc...

And remember that monitors are not ONLY about IQ. Just MOSTLY about IQ.

so why dont we put this "market knows whats better" argument to rest? It is downright funny how we as computer enthusiasts even care what general public wants or buys. Large size & better immersion certainly is a compelling edge for the enthusiast market (provided that the person in question is insensitive to LCD's shortcomings), not for the general mass. Do you really care what "people" think about your hideously expensive video cards to play mere video games?
 

Cabages

Platinum Member
Jan 1, 2006
2,918
0
0
Originally posted by: happy medium
I'm picking up a Sony GDMFW900 24inch widescreen crt for 250.00$ in real good shape.

Heres the specs.

http://www.superwarehouse.com/...itor/GDMFW900/p/105660

Will these resolutions (2304x1440) work with any video card for gaming.
Will I have to edit the drivers or something?.

I have the HP variant of that. Its a really big PITA if you try to run it through the BNC connector, but its pretty simple (in most cases) with VGA.

I would check out the huge thread at hardforums if you want to know more.

Its pretty sweet, but I wish I had a 24" soyo instead.
 

QueBert

Lifer
Jan 6, 2002
22,935
1,132
126
Originally posted by: HOOfan 1
Originally posted by: QueBert

hhere is the bottom line, most consumers are sheep who have no idea what's good and what's not. They just buy what's new.

*cough*Iphone*cough* *cough*iPod*cough*

but with both of those the sheep at least have alternative so they are CHOOSING to buy one. With monitors the only choice they have is LCD so it's not exactly the same. It's say more about a product like the iPods popularity that BB stocks 100 different players and still sells 10x as many iPods. A shame BB doesn't still carry CRT's so as a consumer I at least have an OPTION. Maybe I make up for 5% of the people out there but they could at least have ONE in the store for people like me. And since there are people who still want CRT's, they'd still sell them! Stock 1 at a time, it would get sold and money would be made.

Thank God for Craigslist, with them I can run CRT until I die and not have to worry. I will make the switch to LCD when everything is 100% on par with the best CRT (not close) and they make one big enough for me to punch/kick when I get pwned in CS. I can throw a haymaker at my 22" CRT with little to no effect, if I had did that to my 24" LCD it would have been KTFO for good after the first one :)
 

happy medium

Lifer
Jun 8, 2003
14,387
480
126
Originally posted by: Cabages
Originally posted by: happy medium
I'm picking up a Sony GDMFW900 24inch widescreen crt for 250.00$ in real good shape.

Heres the specs.

http://www.superwarehouse.com/...itor/GDMFW900/p/105660

Will these resolutions (2304x1440) work with any video card for gaming.
Will I have to edit the drivers or something?.

I have the HP variant of that. Its a really big PITA if you try to run it through the BNC connector, but its pretty simple (in most cases) with VGA.

I would check out the huge thread at hardforums if you want to know more.

Its pretty sweet, but I wish I had a 24" soyo instead.

I got real lucky and found the Sony 24 inch widescreen crt close by on ebay and I,m going to pick it up for 200.00$ cash!!!! No shipping :D

 

Continuity28

Golden Member
Jul 2, 2005
1,653
0
76
Originally posted by: QueBert
I will make the switch to LCD when everything is 100% on par with the best CRT

It will never happen. But OLED is coming, and that can theoretically be superior in every way.
 

konakona

Diamond Member
May 6, 2004
6,285
1
0
Originally posted by: Continuity28
Originally posted by: QueBert
I will make the switch to LCD when everything is 100% on par with the best CRT

It will never happen. But OLED is coming, and that can theoretically be superior in every way.

or the long waited SED if it ever hits the market. they did mention it was going to carry a command premium :(
 

VI3L

Member
Oct 14, 2005
138
0
0
This is from another post of mine, I figured it would fit in here.

This is the monitor I just purchased.

Sony FW900


LCDs (liquid crappy displays) do have a nicer picture now, but they still perform badly in games vs a CRT. I could go on all day about why, but I will list the top reasons why I still use CRT. And yes I have tested many "High performance" LCDs made by the top brands, they are all the same.

1. Native resolution - being stuck on one resolution just to get decent image quality is lame.

If you can't run that top of the line graphics game or any game that taxes your system at 1900 by 1200 or whatever your native resolution is, you have to turn your resolution down to 1680 by 1050 or maybe even 1280 by 1024. We all know what the picture will look like at any resolution other than the native. (blurry and distorted)

With the CRT you can go to any resolution and have a crystal clear picture. 800 by 600 can look great with Anti aliasing and Anistropic filtering turned up.

2. Refresh rates - We all know that the LCD is limited in this department, most will run at 60 HZ and maybe 75 if your LCD can do it. CRTs can do over 100 HZ at very high resolutions.

3. Vsync - Gross gross gross. Vsync matches your fps with your monitors refresh rate to prevent image tearing.

Vsync also slows down your systems graphic performance dramatically. Why spend lots of money on a high performance PC and then limit your system to 60 FPS? 100+ FPS feels so much smoother. If you start off with 100 FPS and Vsync disabled and get into a large firefight, your FPS will drop severely but you will still stay ABOVE the 60 FPS mark, not below 60 FPS like with Vsync enabled.

Response times in games are real time without Vsync enabled, just try playing your fps game with Vsync off, it might feel weird at first but you will probably see how much quicker the response time feels. The tearing you will see is what matching your refresh rate to FPS removes. (Which you can't do with an LCD)

Running fps games at 100 FPS and 100 HZ or 120 FPS and 120 HZ produces the smoothness of Vsync being enabled without the performance loss. When was the last time you played an fps game at 1920 by 1200 at 100 HZ, it's a true gamers paradise!

4. LCDs pixels are bigger producing a less sharp picture.

With CRTs the pixels are smaller and create a sharper image, plus smaller pixels in game = smoother movement and aim.

5. LCDs also have input lag where the CRT has none at all.

6. LCDs also have the MS response time, where the CRT has none.

7. LCDs contrast ratios are horrible compared to CRT.

8. LCDs colors are getting better but are not TRUE colors and still can't compete with CRT.

Sure CRTs are huge, consume more power and produce more heat, but so does your massive high performance video card. People don't buy a nice system and then get a tiny slower video card to "save" space and lower tempatures in their tower at the cost of losing extreme performance. So why should you do the same with your display? Obviously the video card isn't nearly as much of a problem as a big monitor on your desk is, it's just an example

LCDs are great for surfing the internet or doing work on your desktop as they save power, produce less heat and mainly take up LESS space. But don't we gamers buy badass systems so our games look "badass"?

And by "badass" I don't mean slow to respond and blurry.

All in all the LCD is great for everything but gaming, and the CRT smokes LCD in every way possible when it comes to graphics and games. If you think your LCD is fast and looks great, then maybe you should stick to XBOX games and leave PC games for the people who know what they are doing!

It seems that only a small fraction of gamers today realize all of the above about LCDs, so i'm prepared for the LCD fanboys flames, flame on!

 

gramboh

Platinum Member
May 3, 2003
2,207
0
0
Yes the Sony FW900 is the best PC display if you can get one in grade A+ condition with no issues and don't mind the insane heat output and reinforcing your desk to handle the 100lbs load.

I used to be a CRT only guy, and was going to drop a few hundred on a refurb FW900 until I realized I'd have to reinforce my desk. I ended up with a Dell 2407WFP. At first I couldn't stand playing FPS games on it, not due to input lag but due to motion blur/stutter. After a week I got used to it and now I would never go back.

If I could buy a new CRT I might consider it, but I'm not spending hundreds on a refurb that was manufactured in 2000.