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CRT Eyestrain

M

moemac8

Member
My eyes have been killing me lately. They get really dry and blurrey. My eye doctor told me it is because you tend not to blink when stareing at a CRT screen for hours on end. I was wondering if getting a LCD would help. Anyone else had trouble where switching to a LCD helped?? Right now I have a nice g450 Sony 19" CRT, what would be a good replacement for it.
 
Drool I've been wanting one of these for the same reason, eyestrain, I hear LCDs will never come close to CRTs for gaming, but that looks like a darn good monitor! 🙂
 
Originally posted by: sm8000
What's your monitor's refresh rate at? Try something better than 60Hz, like 85 Hz.
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I run my CRT at 85 Hz, you should check to make youre you're doing the same, a higher refresh rate will definately reduce eyestrain if you're experiencing it moemac.
 
It makes a big difference. I'm on the computer 60 hours a week and was getting headaches with my CRT. No more since the LCD. Also, my boss just got one and swears he sees better now cause his eyes are less fatigued.

Gaming is fine on my VP171B. I never notice ghosting, though I can "see" it if I look for it.
 
I have my Sony set at 85 mhz and the same for my monitor at work. I went ahead and ordered a Philips 190s5fb from Newegg for $450. The reviews were good and I could afford it. now I need to get my boss to buy me a new display at work.
 
Im just curious. My monitor can handle up to 85mhz at this resolution (1024X768), but many games such as Halo refuse to work unless I return teh rate to 60 mhz.

I dont have any problems with the 60mhz, but is there a fix for this?
 
Originally posted by: JToxic
Im just curious. My monitor can handle up to 85mhz at this resolution (1024X768), but many games such as Halo refuse to work unless I return teh rate to 60 mhz.

I dont have any problems with the 60mhz, but is there a fix for this?
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Start menu, run. Enter dxdiag and press enter. Click on the More Help tab once you're in dxdiag and then click Override. Select "Override Value" and type in 85. Don't type in anything higher unless you're certain your monitor supports it. This only works for DirectX games. For games based on OpenGL engines like Quake3 usually there's a variable called r_displayRefresh you can set to 85 in your game config file.
 
Right now I have a nice g450 Sony 19" CRT, what would be a good replacement for it.
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Lower brightness to less than 50% and set refresh to 120+ hz.

LCD's are never a "good" replacement to AG's.
 
A new LCD was probably unnecessary. Your Sony monitor should be good enough to not strain your eyes. You can do a few things to ensure the best picture:

1. Raise contrast to about 90%, then adjust the brightness to around 50-75%. Excessive brightness will lead to eye strain and faster CRT wear, so aim for closer to 50%. Obviously different CRTs will have different characteristics, but the various aperture grille monitors I've owned all looked fine with their brightness somewhere between 50 and 65%.
2. Lower the color temp to a *much* more comfortable (IMO) 6550K (the NTSC standard, BTW). Whites may look less fluorescent initially, but you'll get used to the slightly more reddish whites quickly, and they should be easier on your eyes. This made for a noticable comfort improvement with my two Mitsu aperture grilles.
3. Make sure you've got a video card with good signal quality driving your monitor. I'd recommend an ATi Radeon or any Matrox for your CRT. Earlier nVidia cards (GF1, 2, 2MX, 3, and even 4) weren't that great above 1024x768. This isn't true for all nVidia cards, of course, but from my rather obsessive forum-watching, I feel it's safe to say ATi cards have better signal quality at higher resolutions, something you'll appreciate with a nice monitor like your Sony. If you're running that beautiful monitor off an integrated graphics card (built into the motherboard), run, don't walk, to buy a discrete card. Ask if you want a more specific recommendation--just specify if you're a gamer or not (and what games you play, if you are).
4. Make sure you're running a comfortable refresh rate of 85-100Hz.
5. Make sure you're running a comfortable res, either 1152x864 or 1280x960 for a 19".
6. Don't forget to occasionally blink, drink water, and focus on something 10-15ft away, especially if you're staring at the monitor for a few hours a day.

Anyway, everything applies to a new LCD, except that you'll want to make sure you're driving it via your video card's DVI connector.

Edit: 120+Hz seems excessive, both for video cards and for CRTs. I'm comfortable with 85-100Hz, but I guess it can't hurt to try 120Hz. I do recall reading that that high a refresh rate won't do your monitor's lifespan any favors, though I may be repeating nonsense.
 
you'll find that lotsa monitors can support higher than 85 hz @ your desired res, but the downside is that they will become noticeably blurry, which is almost as irritating as the flicker in the first place 😛 I can (or at least think i can 😉 ) tell the difference as you increase the refresh from 60-85, but after that i can't see any flicker improvement...

I'd go for a comfortable res (not more than 1280 4 that 19" IMO), and 85hz- or just get a LCD 2solve the prob 🙂 They really are easier on the eyes...
 
I switched from a CRT to LCD mid way through last year. I found myself getting really sore eyes and always found it too bright. I ended up going to get my eyes checked at an optometrist, 100% vision in both eyes, so maybe they just don't like CRTs. 😉 This is with a high end Philips 109P40 19" CRT. I ended up getting the LCD in my sig. I would never go back, I can look at this thing all day long and have no eye troubles.

Think about it like this, would you sit half a metre away from your TV and watch that all the time? I think the same principle should apply to CRTs.
 
Originally posted by: Zebo


LCD's are never a "good" replacement to AG's.
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Heh, all my monitors disagree 🙂 (Initially when I got my 192t I had a Mitsu 2040u,Sony G520p and a Mitsu 900u among others)

 
75Hz should be flicker free by VESA standards. I personally see no flickering at 75Hz.
I doubt flickering is the problem to your eyestrain, and it's what your doctor said, you need to blink more often.
 
My LCD should be delivered tomorrow, got it for this same reason. Hopefully I won't have to deal with this CRT anymore...
 
so is a DVi connection really that much better than a VGA connection for a LCD? And if so what is different, picture quality?
 
Originally posted by: moemac8
so is a DVi connection really that much better than a VGA connection for a LCD? And if so what is different, picture quality?
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Depends on the card. If you get a high quality card, then VGA will look as good. But the response time will be much slower with VGA, thus resulting in streaking.
 
I recently got a LCD monitor (a Philips 170C - 17", 1280*1024) and I don't get any eye-strain anymore! Even with my fairly good CRT (18.x", 1152*864, 100Hz), my eyes would get tired, and eventually looking at the screen would sting. Even though my new monitor has a higher pixel density (1280 on a 17" as opposed to 1152 on a 18.x"), I have no problems seeing stuff when I turn up Windows' DPI setting from 96 to 120. Mozilla/Firefox's font increase function rocks too. 🙂

I'm a hardcore gamer, and I always heard that LCD monitors aren't good enough for very fast games, such as Quake. I can assure you that a good LCD monitor displays games just as good as a CRT does. The only thing LCD monitors lack is extremely accurate display of some colours (black, and other very dark colours, in particular). If you're a *professional* computer artist / graphics dude, you might still prefer an excellent CRT.
 
Interesting Factoid:

I have heard that 10-15% of the population is especially sensitive to refresh rates. People with lighter colored eyes (blue, green, etc) are especially affected. Anecdotally, I know this is true for me. I have green eyes and I can clearly see flicker up to about 100 Hz. Anything less than 85 Hz is maddening for me. I always cringe when I walk by a monitor at 60 Hz - its like a stobe light! Sometimes I can even see the flicker of the color wheel on some (DLP) projectors and "between frames" on movie theatre film projectors. Anyway, since I switched to primarily LCD displays on my computers, my eyes feel *much* better.
 
Originally posted by: CyberZenn
Interesting Factoid:

I have heard that 10-15% of the population is especially sensitive to refresh rates. People with lighter colored eyes (blue, green, etc) are especially affected. Anecdotally, I know this is true for me. I have green eyes and I can clearly see flicker up to about 100 Hz. Anything less than 85 Hz is maddening for me. I always cringe when I walk by a monitor at 60 Hz - its like a stobe light! Sometimes I can even see the flicker of the color wheel on some (DLP) projectors and "between frames" on movie theatre film projectors. Anyway, since I switched to primarily LCD displays on my computers, my eyes feel *much* better.
Click to expand...

Hmm, that's interesting. I also do like LCD's much more than CRT, and flicker is a big part of it.

I think everyone sees 60 Hz as a flickery mess - it looks downright terrible in everything but the darkest games. 75 Hz is usually bearable on Trinitron but 85Hz+ is more comfortable for me on non-AG monitors.
 
How come 60hz on a LCD looks flicker-free still? Or is refresh rate not really an issue on LCDs?

Oh man, just reading this thread makes my eyes hurt. 😉 I'm home on Christmas break, and didn't feel like lugging back my Samsung 900NF, so I'm using a crappy 15" that can at best do 75hz @ 800x600 or 60hz @ 1024x768. I can deal with 60hz in games for an hour or so, but windows at anything less than 85hz sucks, so my eyes have been straining all break I asked a couple of my friends who were watching me to see if they noticed the difference between 60hz, 75hz, and 85hz on my monitor. Only one of them thought he saw a little change. The rest were like, what's the difference? UGH! 60hz is just killer!!
 
Because the backlight on an LCD is always on. The only thing that changes is the opacity of the sub-pixels. So a LCD is essentially presenting you a solid image, albeit one that changes a bit like one frame "melting" into the next.

On a CRT, the electron gun is constantly repainting the screen from top to bottom, and the image it paints on the back of the glass fades very quickly. Thus, you'll perceived flicker if the image isn't refreshed/repainted faster than it fades, or at least fast enough for your eyes to interpolate the redraws into a solid image.

Try what I recommended above: contrast at 90-100%, brightness at 50-75%, color temp at 6550K. It won't compensate for a poor video card and monitor, but it may help.
 
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