Critique My September PC Build

[thm1223]

.. and yet again, a big spender enthusiast who completely neglects the audio aspect of the PC. You have this big of a budget, why not make room for a higher end sound card and some studio monitors or headphones or something?

I have a NuForce Icon HDP, so I think I'll be ok. 😎

 

[thm1223]

1. Most games will not be able to fully utilize a quad core for a while as game engines are coded to scale off 2 or 4 threads, while Hyper Threading is great for some productivity software, the gaming industry is more or less ignoring the existence of 8 thread machines because they need to sell a lot of units, and very few have those at their disposal. So I would say no, it's not worth the extra bit of cash.

2. The RAM as I said before is overpriced, and the heat spreaders will interfere with almost any cooler around. 16 GB is also quite a bit too much for a gaming rig, even 4 GB would be sufficient if you didn't run anything on the side, 8 GB will be plenty. As for RAM, the frequencies and timings do make differences in benchmarks, but for the most part with modern systems they operate so fast no matter what that you won't really notice the difference between them unless you're doing something insanely memory intensive. This Patriot Gamer 2 8 GB set for $37 AR will be fine for your system.

3. The 660 Ti will not affect the prices of its bigger brothers as it of the same generation and not meant to compete with them in any way. The 660 Ti will likely cause a drop in the price of the 560 Ti and possibly the 7850 depending on what price it launches at.



The numbers for most SSDs in terms of max read/write throughput is usually done in the most perfect circumstances that the manufacturer can come up with. I don't quite remember which SSD it was but around a year ago there was a drive boasting the highest throughput of any SSD on the market (I think it was an earlier SF controller) but when it came to certain tests in Anandtech's tests it fell flat on its face with speeds barely matching mechanical drives (like random writes).

As both drives utilize Marvell controllers I don't see much issue with either though, personally I can recommend the M4 as a great drive. According to Anandtech's benchmarks the Plextor is indeed better in almost every way, and as it utilizes the same controller the reliability aspect is likely close to the same unless they've botched their firmware somehow. At the end of the day though, both drives will handle your data so fast that they'll both seem of roughly the same speed so I'd suggest going with whichever you can get cheaper.




According to AT benchmarks either card will be able to handle BF3 with the 670 edging out a bit. Overall the 7970 GHz edition seems to average out better, but either card will be able to handle almost any game you can throw at it.


Edit: I'd also like to once again add that I still don't see how this build is coming out to be so expensive, as others have stated spending more on computer hardware isn't always better. Your system costs more than twice mfenn's mid-range system build but will only edge out in performance a tiny bit. With a single GTX 670, not the crazy 690 you're looking for, you can play any modern title even at 2560x1600. If you want EVERY modern title at highest settings possible then look into 670 SLI or 7970 GHz CF set-ups, both cost less than a single 690 and will likely outperform it in most circumstances.

Why are you aiming for 2 256 GB SSD's? If you need storage space SSD's are still nowhere near the cost efficiency of mechanical drives, just pick up a single 128 or 256 GB SSD and a 1 TB + mechanical drive to use as storage for non-essential/commonly used programs.

Points taken, although I think you are looking at an obsolete list of parts that have been heavily revised since this thread's inception. The current list is:

Case: Corsair Obsidian Series 650D (CC650DW-1) Black Steel structure with black brushed aluminum faceplate ATX Mid Tower Computer ...

PSU: CORSAIR HX Series HX750 (CMPSU-750HX) 750W ATX12V 2.3 / EPS12V 2.91 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Modular ...

Motherboard: ASRock Z77 Extreme4 LGA 1155 Intel Z77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard

CPU: Intel Core i5-3570K Ivy Bridge 3.4GHz (3.8GHz Turbo) LGA 1155 77W Quad-Core Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics 4000 BX80637I53570K

CPU Heatsink: Scythe SCMG-3000 120mm Heat Pipe CPU Cooler

RAM:CORSAIR XMS 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 Desktop Memory Model CMX16GX3M2A1333C9

Video Card (x2): SAPPHIRE Vapor-X 100351VXSR Radeon HD 7970 GHz Edition 3GB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support ...

SSD: Plextor M3 Series PX-256M3 2.5" 256GB SATA III Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)

Optical Drive: ASUS DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS Black SATA 24X DVD Burner - Bulk - OEM

Keyboard: Logitech G510 Black USB Wired Gaming Keyboard

Webcam: Logitech C310 USB 2.0 HD WebCam

Thermal Compound: Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound - OEM


Total Before Shipping: $2,173.83

I have to say that this is not the same computer I initially suggested in the OP. However, the input from everyone in this thread has been incredibly appreciated. I do apologize if I came off as ignorantly arrogant or a simply nub at times. But hey, I wanna be cool like you guys and game on a sweet rig!

 

[Durvelle27]

Points taken, although I think you are looking at an obsolete list of parts that have been heavily revised since this thread's inception. The current list is:

Case: Corsair Obsidian Series 650D (CC650DW-1) Black Steel structure with black brushed aluminum faceplate ATX Mid Tower Computer ...

PSU: CORSAIR HX Series HX750 (CMPSU-750HX) 750W ATX12V 2.3 / EPS12V 2.91 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Modular ...

Motherboard: ASRock Z77 Extreme4 LGA 1155 Intel Z77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard

CPU: Intel Core i5-3570K Ivy Bridge 3.4GHz (3.8GHz Turbo) LGA 1155 77W Quad-Core Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics 4000 BX80637I53570K

CPU Heatsink: Scythe SCMG-3000 120mm Heat Pipe CPU Cooler

RAM:CORSAIR XMS 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 Desktop Memory Model CMX16GX3M2A1333C9

Video Card (x2): SAPPHIRE Vapor-X 100351VXSR Radeon HD 7970 GHz Edition 3GB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support ...

SSD: Plextor M3 Series PX-256M3 2.5" 256GB SATA III Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)

Optical Drive: ASUS DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS Black SATA 24X DVD Burner - Bulk - OEM

Keyboard: Logitech G510 Black USB Wired Gaming Keyboard

Webcam: Logitech C310 USB 2.0 HD WebCam

Thermal Compound: Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound - OEM


Total Before Shipping: $2,173.83

I have to say that this is not the same computer I initially suggested in the OP. However, the input from everyone in this thread has been incredibly appreciated. I do apologize if I came off as ignorantly arrogant or a simply nub at times. But hey, I wanna be cool like you guys and game on a sweet rig!

looks solid ?

 

[krnmastersgt]

I don't think you need to start off with two 7970's, just one will get you some pretty awesome framerates in any modern game, unless your 2560x1600 display is 120 Hz.

I personally don't use silver for my thermal pastes anymore, I've been sold on the benefits of diamond.

You don't seem to want to budge on the RAM, is there a particular reason? That RAM isn't what I'd call good it's just average so I'm not sure why you're so insistent on having it.

 

[thm1223]

I don't think you need to start off with two 7970's, just one will get you some pretty awesome framerates in any modern game, unless your 2560x1600 display is 120 Hz.

I personally don't use silver for my thermal pastes anymore, I've been sold on the benefits of diamond.

You don't seem to want to budge on the RAM, is there a particular reason? That RAM isn't what I'd call good it's just average so I'm not sure why you're so insistent on having it.

I'd be open to 2 4gb sticks of good quality RAM. Also, what's so good about diamond compound?

 

[Durvelle27]

I'd be open to 2 4gb sticks of good quality RAM. Also, what's so good about diamond compound?

look at my build ? 1st page

 

[mfenn]

So currently my total for all components and peripherals except the screen ((keyboard and webcam... already have a great mouse) is $2,427. I definitely am intrigued now at purchasing a 27" screen. However I'm not sure an HP would be the best bet. Or would it? 😕

😕 You're currently looking at an HP ZR30w, are you not? The ZR2740w and ZR30w are very similar in features apart from the resolution.

 

[thm1223]

😕 You're currently looking at an HP ZR30w, are you not? The ZR2740w and ZR30w are very similar in features apart from the resolution.

Isn't it a TN panel?

 

[mfenn]

Isn't it a TN panel?

Nope, it's IPS just like the ZR30w.

 

[mfenn]

Points taken, although I think you are looking at an obsolete list of parts that have been heavily revised since this thread's inception. The current list is:

Case: Corsair Obsidian Series 650D (CC650DW-1) Black Steel structure with black brushed aluminum faceplate ATX Mid Tower Computer ...

PSU: CORSAIR HX Series HX750 (CMPSU-750HX) 750W ATX12V 2.3 / EPS12V 2.91 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Modular ...

Motherboard: ASRock Z77 Extreme4 LGA 1155 Intel Z77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard

CPU: Intel Core i5-3570K Ivy Bridge 3.4GHz (3.8GHz Turbo) LGA 1155 77W Quad-Core Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics 4000 BX80637I53570K

CPU Heatsink: Scythe SCMG-3000 120mm Heat Pipe CPU Cooler

RAM:CORSAIR XMS 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 Desktop Memory Model CMX16GX3M2A1333C9

Video Card (x2): SAPPHIRE Vapor-X 100351VXSR Radeon HD 7970 GHz Edition 3GB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support ...

SSD: Plextor M3 Series PX-256M3 2.5" 256GB SATA III Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)

Optical Drive: ASUS DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS Black SATA 24X DVD Burner - Bulk - OEM

Keyboard: Logitech G510 Black USB Wired Gaming Keyboard

Webcam: Logitech C310 USB 2.0 HD WebCam

Thermal Compound: Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound - OEM


Total Before Shipping: $2,173.83

I have to say that this is not the same computer I initially suggested in the OP. However, the input from everyone in this thread has been incredibly appreciated. I do apologize if I came off as ignorantly arrogant or a simply nub at times. But hey, I wanna be cool like you guys and game on a sweet rig!

OK, so this build is a hell of a lot better than what you came in with. I still have a few suggestions though:

- PSU: $135 is too much for a 750W unit. The Seasonic M12II is one of the better designs out there and costs $102 AP.
- SSD : $240 is too much to be spending on a relatively unknown player in the SSD market like Plextor. They just haven't been around long enough to build up a solid reputation for reliability, a problem which has plagued SSDs from day 1. Luckily, the Samsung 830 256GB is one of the most reliable and fastest SSDs you can buy and only costs $230.

 

[thm1223]

OK, so this build is a hell of a lot better than what you came in with. I still have a few suggestions though:

- PSU: $135 is too much for a 750W unit. The Seasonic M12II is one of the better designs out there and costs $102 AP.
- SSD : $240 is too much to be spending on a relatively unknown player in the SSD market like Plextor. They just haven't been around long enough to build up a solid reputation for reliability, a problem which has plagued SSDs from day 1. Luckily, the Samsung 830 256GB is one of the most reliable and fastest SSDs you can buy and only costs $230.

Cool thanks for the suggestions. Out of curiosity, how about going with the Crucial M4 for $209 instead?

 

[mfenn]

Cool thanks for the suggestions. Out of curiosity, how about going with the Crucial M4 for $209 instead?

The M4 is certainly a solid choice as well. It's got the reliability aspect nailed just as well as the Samsung but isn't at quite the same level of performance. Not that you can probably tell a difference between the two without running benchmarks.

 

[thm1223]

Alrighty sounds good. Well I've made a ton of changes since this thread was created. I'll post an update either right before or right after I've bought the parts, depending on just how quickly I do so. I may move the order date from the beginning of next month to the end of next week.

I guess now the only question which remains is whether I want the 27" or 30" monitor, and if so where the best place to purchase one is.

 

[krnmastersgt]

Silver compounds over time become less effective and after a few months for optimal cooling performance they need to be re-applied, most people could just leave it alone forever and for most this will be fine but I used to tinker like hell with my Q6600.

Diamond based pastes however do not, tarnish I think is the process that silver goes through? I'm not sure what it is but the silver slowly becomes ineffective while the diamond pastes don't deteriorate in performance nor do they have the long burn-in times that silver also has. As I said though this is personal, I re-apply the compound quite often (probably 3-4 tubes of AS5 with the Q6600 alone) so it was a bit of an issue for me, I just prefer using diamond now. I also get slightly better performance out of diamond than I do with silver.

Also in regards to RAM, this Samsung 8GB set is pretty nice. It runs at a lower voltage than standard DDR3 RAM and thusly allows you to overclock it like hell if you want, or just run it at stock since you won't notice the difference outside of benchmarks really.

 

[thm1223]

Silver compounds over time become less effective and after a few months for optimal cooling performance they need to be re-applied, most people could just leave it alone forever and for most this will be fine but I used to tinker like hell with my Q6600.

Diamond based pastes however do not, tarnish I think is the process that silver goes through? I'm not sure what it is but the silver slowly becomes ineffective while the diamond pastes don't deteriorate in performance nor do they have the long burn-in times that silver also has. As I said though this is personal, I re-apply the compound quite often (probably 3-4 tubes of AS5 with the Q6600 alone) so it was a bit of an issue for me, I just prefer using diamond now. I also get slightly better performance out of diamond than I do with silver.

Also in regards to RAM, this Samsung 8GB set is pretty nice. It runs at a lower voltage than standard DDR3 RAM and thusly allows you to overclock it like hell if you want, or just run it at stock since you won't notice the difference outside of benchmarks really.

Ya the stock timings aren't very good but it does seem to have major league OC potential.

 

[krnmastersgt]

The stock timings will be fine unless you just want bragging rights for the most part, but yes they have a lot of headroom to play around with so you can tinker with the timings and frequency all you want.

 

[DSF]

I would just like to throw out there that the exact thermal paste really doesn't matter very much. Sure, there might be a degradation of a few degrees Celsius over time, but it's irrelevant for 99.9% of users.

There was even a benchmark done comparing several leading brands of thermal paste, and mayonnaise was able to hold its own for a little while. Not that I'm suggesting you use mayonnaise, but the thermal paste that comes with your cooler will be fine.

If you want to buy thermal compound though, no biggie. I bought it for my first build, and it can be handy to have around in case you have to reseat a heatsink or add on an aftermarket GPU cooler for the heck of it, or whatever.

 

[thelastjuju]

good point ?

I'm just dying to know the appeal of having the absolute most cutting edge visuals.. paired up with mediocre sound and rinky dink PC speakers..
😱

 

[DSF]

I'm just dying to know the appeal of having the absolute most cutting edge visuals.. paired up with mediocre sound and rinky dink PC speakers..
😱

Why not make some suggestions then? You have all of the information you need about the OP's budget and current equipment.

 

[thm1223]

Why not make some suggestions then? You have all of the information you need about the OP's budget and current equipment.

Actually I'm pretty sure I'm fine in the sound department. I have a NuForce Icon HDP, and a 2.1 system consisting of a pair of Adam A7xs and an Adam Sub8 (basically a top of the line 2.1 studio system).

All four of those items together is well over $2k in audio equipment.

 

[thelastjuju]

Indeed you are WELL equipped when it comes to audio 😱

A rare thing to see around here really. 😀:thumbsup:

Now the only thing I can suggest is to get the comfiest PC chair possible.

 

[thm1223]

Indeed you are WELL equipped when it comes to audio 😱

A rare thing to see around here really. 😀:thumbsup:

Now the only thing I can suggest is to get the comfiest PC chair possible.

Ya I have a DJ setup that I use them with. However I am either going to get a separate pair of A7xs for my computer or figure out a good way to use my existing pair with both.

What would you recommend chair wise, say for $300-$500? I'm thinking about getting a used Herman Miller off Craigslist, but which model?

 

[thelastjuju]

Man, I wish I could help you there.. I've never been fortunate enough to have the type of budget to work with to fit in a $500 chair. :\

But a nice, comfy PC chair will definitely be more beneficial on a day to day basis than overloading on the hardware that you may or may not ever be able to take advantage of.

 

[thm1223]

Ok guys,

I will be pulling the trigger on my parts within the next 3-7 days, so wanted to run things by you one last time. The current list is as follows:

Case: Corsair Obsidian Series 800D CC800DW Black Aluminum / Steel ATX Full Tower Computer Case

PSU: CORSAIR HX Series HX750 (CMPSU-750HX) 750W ATX12V 2.3 / EPS12V 2.91 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Modular ...

Motherboard: ASRock Z77 Extreme4 LGA 1155 Intel Z77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard

CPU: Intel Core i5-3570K Ivy Bridge 3.4GHz (3.8GHz Turbo) LGA 1155 77W Quad-Core Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics 4000 BX80637I53570K

Video Card (x2): SAPPHIRE Vapor-X 100351VXSR Radeon HD 7970 GHz Edition 3GB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support ...
CPU Heatsink: Scythe SCMG-3000 120mm Heat Pipe CPU Cooler

RAM: SAMSUNG 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model MV-3V4G3D/USVideo Card (x2): SAPPHIRE Vapor-X 100351VXSR Radeon HD 7970 GHz Edition 3GB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support ...

SSD SAMSUNG 830 Series MZ-7PC256B/WW 2.5" 256GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)Optical Drive: ASUS DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS Black SATA 24X DVD Burner - Bulk - OEM

Keyboard: Logitech G510 Black USB Wired Gaming Keyboard

Webcam: Logitech C310 USB 2.0 HD WebCam

Thermal Compound: Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound - OEM


I did change the case back to the 800D, but I wanted to ask you guys about this. My thought process is that it is a good case if I ever want to explore water cooling and has enough features that it could even be used for a rebuild 4-6 years down the road. Silly or not for an extra $75?

Also, with respect to the processor, are future games not expected to take advantage of the 3770k's hyper threading?

 

[krnmastersgt]

Watercooled rigs are only typically for hardware enthusiasts that enjoy tinkering with their set-up and trying to get the maximum overclock out of their processors, for the most part if you just stay with modern platforms it's not really necessary as moderate overclocks with new platform architectures will typically beat out high overclocks on older platforms.

I would say it's not particularly worth it, watercooling set-ups actually have a decent amount of work and maintenance behind them, if you screw up then the process or draining, bleeding, etc. can take many hours to fix so I wouldn't suggest it unless you really feel that you want to push your chip to its absolute limits, in which case be prepared to spend a few weeks doing so (proper stability tests are 12+ hours for CPU stress testing).

Future games will slowly scale with more logical threads, however this transition will be slow. As BF3 has already shown, many companies likely have the know-how to utilize as many threads as a system can offer however they choose not to since selling games is a business, not everyone is going to have an 8+ thread monster rig to game on and the typical average is something between dual and quad cores. So they cater to that market as its the majority of PC gaming rigs. Most games will not scale up to 4 threads, they're stuck hovering around 2 currently so you'll see a gradual transition to 4 and then even higher but that should be quite a few years down the line at this point.