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Critique my Diet / Excercise Plan

dmw16

Diamond Member
First off, my adventure in health started in September of 2005 @ 300lbs. I am now down to 200lbs (have been since about August 2006) and I want to get a little leaner and get more definition, etc. I have a decent knowledge/understanding of diet and exercise but more input is always helpful.

I workout 4 straight days a week (I work away from home during the week so basically I work and go to the gym Mon-Thur) and spend the weekends with my wife.

Here is my workout plan.

Day 1 - Chest and Back
Dumbell Press (3 sets, 8-12 reps)
Incline Dumbell Press (3 sets, 8-12 reps)
Decline Machine Press (3 sets, 8-12 reps)
Cable Crossover or Flies (3 sets, 8-12 reps)
Dips (4 sets, rep till failure)
Dumbell Row (3 sets, 8-12 reps)
Back Extensions (3 sets, rep till failure)
Lat Pulldown (3 sets, 8-12 reps)
Low Cable Row (3 sets, 8-12 reps)

Day 2 - Biceps and Triceps
Barbell Curls (3 sets, 8-12 reps)
Hammer Curls (3 sets, 8-12 reps)
Concentration Curls (3 sets, 8-12 reps)
Skull Crushers (3 sets, 8-12 reps)
Cable Press Down (3 sets, 8-12 reps)
Standing Barbell Extension (3 sets, 8-12 reps)
Wrist/Forearm Curls (3 sets, 8-12 reps)

Day 3 - Shoulders and Legs
Side Raises (3 sets, 8-12 reps)
Upright Row (3 sets, 8-12 reps)
Standing Military Press (3 sets, 8-12 reps)
Squats (3 sets, 8-12 reps)
Leg Press (3 sets, 8-12 reps)
Leg Extensions (3 sets, 8-12 reps)
Lying Leg Curls (3 sets, 8-12 reps)
Calf Raises (3 sets, 8-12 reps)
Lunges (3 sets, 8-12 reps)

Since I lift 4 days per week I do one group twice.

Food:

Breakfast: Protein Shake & Berries
Snack: Greek Yougart & Banana (or apple)
Lunch: turkey sandwich on a whole wheat pita
Snack: string cheese and carrots
Dinner: salad and chicken
Snack (sometimes): piece of fruit and string cheese
 
One word: excessive. Go heavier, do fewer lifts. Your muscles will get the same benefits. Honestly, incline/flat bench + weighted dips is enough for your chest (just for example).
 
Ok. I like the flies in there because it seems to hit a different region of muscles in my chest. I just do body weight dips, no weight belt or anything.

I guess the other reason I do as much as I do is because my wife isn't here with me so I have nothing else to do.

I also do a little cardio at the end each day (except legs day cuz my legs are shot) but that is just 30 minutes @ 3.5mph starting at 2deg incline, then after 5min go to 4deg, then 5min and go to 6deg then back down.
 
I can understand that - trust me, I've stayed at the gym for a very long time due to boredom. However, you're gonna overtrain if you do that. If you have nothing else to do, get your lifting in and then go play basketball or something if you can. That would be your cardio, you'd meet some people, and you would be less likely to get CNS fatigue 🙂
 
What are your goals? Adding mass? Strength? Training for a sport?

What is your lifting experience? The relevant question here is if you are able to add weight to your core lifts (especially squat) linearly - that is, every workout - or if you've progressed far enough with weightlifting where you can only go up in weight every few workouts? The actual amount of weight your lift is also relevant (see the weightlifting standards), but in general, if you can do a linear progression, you'd be wasting your time doing anything else.

Where did you get this routine from? Did you come up with it yourself? Do you really think you have enough expertise to do that? For example, can you answer the following:

* Do you really think 10 exercises per day is a good idea?
* Do you know how your body will respond to this amount of volume 4 days in a row?
* Why a split routine?
* Why 8-12 reps per set? Why 3 sets?
* How will you increase weight?
* Why no deadlift?
* Why no overhead press?
* Why so many isolation exercises?
* Why so many exercises using machines?
 
Originally posted by: brikis98

* Do you really think 10 exercises per day is a good idea?
* Do you know how your body will respond to this amount of volume 4 days in a row?
* Why a split routine?
* Why 8-12 reps per set? Why 3 sets?
* How will you increase weight?
* Why no deadlift?
* Why no overhead press?
* Why so many isolation exercises?
* Why so many exercises using machines?

I'll field the questions...

1. I don't know. I see nothing specifically wrong with 10 per day.
2. Yes, I've lifted this way before with good results
3. Not sure what you mean. If you mean how I grouped muscles it is based on what I've read around the internet and such.
4. Again, just what I've read.
5. I typically increase weight when I can do at least 3 sets of 10 reps
6. No particular reason. It will probably get in the rotation at some point
7. Overhead press for what? Military press is very similar
8. Just the exercises I've picked based on research
9. A lot of machines? Day 1 has 2 (or 3 if i do the cable crossover). Day 2 has 1. Day 3 has 4. It didn't seem like an overuse of machines.

As for experience, I've been lifting since late 2005. Everything I know has been gleaned from the internet, Men's Health, etc. Never worked with a trainer.

When you say a linear progression you mean like a pyramid? So do 12, 10, 8 reps with increasing weight?

EDIT: Feel free to make suggestions for replacing or eliminating exercises or changing sets or reps. That's why I posted.
 
Linear progression is increasing the weight each workout for each exercise. On a graph of time vs. weight, it would show a linear increase up and to the right. It's the fastest and most effective way to gain strength, if that's your goal.
 
Not each day, but each time you do an exercise. In your case, every time day 1 comes around in the rotation, you would increase the weight. This is a difficult trend to maintain because machines and dumbbells typically don't allow for increases smaller than 10 pounds. That is where barbell training comes in. You can increase the weight by 5 lbs, or even 2.5 lbs if you have access to 1.25 lb weights, and still make gains week to week and month to month.

Most people in this forum are in the beginner/intermediate stage and follow StrongLifts 5 x 5 or Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe. A couple of guys have been doing Crossfit and have made some tremendous gains and really like it.
 
dmw16 - your answers to my questions are a strong indication that you don't know enough to be coming up with your own routine. For example:

Originally posted by: dmw16
Do you really think 10 exercises per day is a good idea?
I don't know. I see nothing specifically wrong with 10 per day.
Your central nervous system (CNS) can only tolerate a certain amount of exercise intensity/volume at a time. If you do too much, you not only slow your own progress, but you may also experience other symptoms of overtraining. Ten exercises in a single workout, each for 3 sets of 10, is a lot. Although everyone's recovery abilities are different, it's likely that this volume of lifting will tax your CNS too much. For comparison, the Bill Starr 5x5 routine, which is used by intermediate lifters, includes only 3-4 exercises per day and even that tends to push the trainee's CNS to the limits.

Originally posted by: dmw16
Why a split routine?
Not sure what you mean. If you mean how I grouped muscles it is based on what I've read around the internet and such.
A split routine is one which trains different body parts on different days. This is quite different than a whole body routine (such as the aforementioned Bill Starr 5x5 routine) which works the entire body every workout. There are also upper/lower body splits and push/pull splits. The different types of routines have different pros and cons and you should be aware of them if you're going to design you're own routine.

Originally posted by: dmw16
Why 8-12 reps per set? Why 3 sets?
Again, just what I've read.
The number of reps you do per set - which is related to what percentage of your 1 rep max you're using for the exercise - has a MASSIVE impact on the effect the training will have on your body. For example, training with low reps (1-5) tends to be most efficient for producing strength gains. Training with medium reps (8-12) tends to be most efficient for producing hypertrophy (muscle mass/size) gains. Training with high reps (15+) tends to be most efficient for producing muscular endurance gains. Obviously, all 3 overlap, but you should use the rep range that most closely aligns with your goals. Moreover, your training experience plays into this as well. For example, for beginners and intermediates, gains in strength are usually accompanied by gains in hypertrophy, so working with lower reps (1-5) tends to be the best choice for either goal.

Originally posted by: dmw16
Why no deadlift?
No particular reason. It will probably get in the rotation at some point
Unless you have some kind of injury that absolutely prevents you from deadlifting, omitting it usually means your routine is not as effective as it could be. There's no exercise you "must" do, but there are definitely exercises that have a better "bang for the buck" than others, and the deadlift is one of them. Whether your goals are overall strength, gaining mass, training for sports, etc, the deadlift is an extremely effective tool for achieving them.

Originally posted by: dmw16
Why so many exercises using machines?
A lot of machines? Day 1 has 2 (or 3 if i do the cable crossover). Day 2 has 1. Day 3 has 4. It didn't seem like an overuse of machines.
In almost every sense, free weight exercises are superior to machine exercises. Unless you have a very good reason for it, you don't really need any machine exercises in your routine, and certainly not 3 or 4 per day.

Originally posted by: dmw16
As for experience, I've been lifting since late 2005. Everything I know has been gleaned from the internet, Men's Health, etc. Never worked with a trainer.
Men's Health and numerous sites on the Internet are awful places to get information about resistance training.

Originally posted by: dmw16
When you say a linear progression you mean like a pyramid? So do 12, 10, 8 reps with increasing weight?
A linear progression means that you are able to increase the weight almost every workout. Beginners to weight lifting, for example, can usually add 5lbs to their lifts just about every time they go to the gym. Obviously, this is the fastest way you can increase strength, so as long as you can do it, you should do it. More advanced trainees will not be able to maintain this pace and will need to introduce periodization into the routine, modifying training volume/intensity/etc and increasing weight less frequently (typically once per week for intermediates and even more for advanced trainees).


I hope you can see from the list above that you are lacking a lot of the necessary knowledge to build your own routine. I don't mean this as an insult: there's simply no reason for the average person to know how to do it and even after years of weightlifting, I'm still learning new things all the time. What you have to realize is that you have a finite amount of time in which to train, so it should be in your best interest to find an optimal routine to achieve your goals.

The routine you posted here will probably produce results, but it's unlikely to be nearly as effective/efficient as something designed by professionals. I'm still unclear on what exactly your goals are and what your weight training level is (again, refer to the weightlifting standards and discussion on linear progression above), but assuming you were interested in building strength, here are some recommendations. Please note that these are usually meant to be done on 3 non-consecutive days each week. If you only have 4 days in a week, and definitely can't workout one day on the weekends or Friday, you may need to do only 2 days a week and see how it goes. I can also recommend some push/pull/upper/lower routines that are easier to fit into a 4 day schedule, as well as other routines if your goals are gains in muscle mass, athletic performance, etc.

* If you're at beginner levels - that is, you can add weight to your core lifts just about every workout - consider a beginner program like the one outlined in Starting Strength or Stronglifts 5x5.

* If you're at an intermediate level - that is, you can add weight to your core lifts about once a week (once every ~3 workouts) - consider an intermediate program like Bill Starr 5x5 or The Texas Method.

* If you're at an advanced level - that is, you can add weight to your core lifts only once every few weeks and need to constantly vary volume/intensity/load - consider an advanced program like Bill Starr-Glenn Pendlay 5x5 or a West Side Barbell Routine.
 
Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged
One word: excessive. Go heavier, do fewer lifts. Your muscles will get the same benefits. Honestly, incline/flat bench + weighted dips is enough for your chest (just for example).

Not to mention that your goal seems to be fat loss, which makes the volume even more excessive.
 
Think I'm going to try the stronglifts 5x5 and just do 2 days back to back each week. If it proves to be too much then I'll cut it back or try to get the the gym on the weekends. But my weekends are the only time I get with the wife so I'd rather spend it with her than at the gym.
 
So you're going to be doing it 4x a week? That would mean you'd be squatting 5x5, 4x a week. Two of which would be back to back. To be honest, if you really want to be working out 4x a week a full body routine is not the answer. Since your goal is fat loss, you'd be better off following a upper/lower routine with less volume. Your goal while dieting is to maintain LBM and it really doesn't take much volume or frequency to do so. What is important is that intensity stays the same (weight on the bar). You also have to keep in mind recovery will suffer while in a calorie deficit, which is why adding more volume is not the answer. While cutting I've done full body workouts only 2x a week with great success. As well as 3x a week alternating upper and lower (so both get hit 3x in two weeks). I don't know why you feel you need to be in the gym 4x a week. I would personally devote that time to cardio or resting, but if you really want to it can work. Volume just has to be lowered to compensate.

An example upper/lower split could be something like this:

Mon: Lower
Squat: 2X6-8
RDL: 2X6-8
Split squat: 1X10-12
Leg Curl: 1X10-12
Calf raise: 2X6-8

Tue: Upper
Flat bench: 2X6-8
Row: 2X6-8
OH Press: 1X10-12
Chins: 1X10-12

It doesn't look like much, but it'll be more than enough for maintaining LBM, especially since you'd be lifting 4x a week. Thursday and Friday would just be repeats or with slight adjustments. For example on the second lower body day doing deadlifts followed by a lighter quad dominant movement.
 
How much cardio should I be doing? Is my current level good or should I add more?

As for a 4day plan, what about something like this in terms of groups?
Mon - Legs
Tuesday - Chest + Tris
Wednesday - Back and Bis
Thursday - Shoulders + traps

 
Originally posted by: dmw16
EDIT: Tons of questions...just sending you a PM

I responded to your PM with a long reply, but then realized that the info might be generally useful in this thread as well, so I'm copying it here too:

First, I want to mention that "improved definition" is not a useful goal. A useful goal is one that you can concretely measure so that you can see your progress toward it. For example, "I want to have X% body fat and weigh Y lbs by date Z" is a concrete goal that will result in "improved definition" but also give you something specific to work towards. This can give you more of a training/challenge mentality, which can be very motivating and typically, more effective at producing results. Having said that, "improved definition" consists of lowering your body fat percentage. As discussed in the fat loss sticky, it's very difficult to lose fat and build muscle at the same time. Resistance training is immensely helpful towards either goal, but you'll want to pick one or the other and set-up your diet accordingly. If you pick fat loss, the resistance training will be primarily for maintaining lean body mass and while you may still get stronger, you won't add on too much extra muscle. You'll also want to be careful with exercise volume as it'll be harder for the body to recover while on a caloric deficit. On the other hand, if you go towards increasing mass, then the resistance training will be the tool to convince your body to make most of the mass gain muscle.

In terms of what routine to do, the gold standard for beginners is the routine described in Starting Strength. Not only does the book describe a simple and effective routine, it also does an incredibly good job of explaining why you should do strength training, why use free weights instead of machines, which lifts tend to be most effective, and thorough instructions (including great pictures & diagrams) of how to do each of these lifts. If you are not 100% confident in your form on the low bar back squat, deadlift, OH press, bench press, and power clean, the book is very worthwhile, even if you choose to do some other routine. There is also a complementary DVD that came out recently which is extremely helpful. If you're going to spend multiple hours a week for months on end doing these routines, it's worth spending a little money & time up front to sure you learn to do the exercises properly.

If you're averse to spending money, you can check out some of the same content on the Starting Strength wiki. For that matter, the Stronglifts website is also an excellent (free) resource that I use all the time. The Stronglifts 5x5 routine is very similar to Starting Strength, with a few minor tweaks that make it a bit easier to get into. I personally prefer Starting Strength, but you'll have great results with either program.

The one catch, as I mentioned before, is that both routines are designed to be done on 3 non-consecutive days per week. Since you work the entire body each day, it's hard to recover enough between workouts to do two consecutive days. I'd suggest starting with just 2 days a week (e.g., Monday and Wednesday) and see how it goes. As long as you are adding weight to the bar just about every workout, then you don't need to change anything. However, if you quickly get stuck, you may need to make tweaks. Adding a 3rd day on Friday or the weekends is a good choice. I definitely understand the issue of wanting to see your wife, but perhaps she'll forgive you for disappearing for 60-90 minutes on one of those days. Otherwise, you could try doing two consecutive days (e.g., Monday, Tuesday and Thursday) with the second of the two consecutive days being tweaked to use lighter (or no) squats. I'm not sure how successful that'll be, but it's an option.

One other option is for you to consider Crossfit, especially if there is a Crossfit gym near you. It's the workout routine of many military, police, firefighters, mixed martial artists, etc and is designed to develop general physical preparedness (ie, overall fitness). Rather than improving just strength, Crossfit is designed to improve "each of 10 fitness domains: cardiovascular/respiratory endurance, stamina, strength, flexibility, power, speed, agility, balance, coordination, and accuracy." It does involve weight lifting, but also gymnastics, running, plyometrics, climbing and a whole lot more. I'd recommend reading the article "What is Fitness?" in the Crossfit journal for more info. You can also check out my workout journal to see my experiences with Crossfit since I started it back in July. Since not each day involves heavy lifting in Crossfit, you could do 4 consecutive days of CF (some people even do 5) without overloading your CNS. Of course, when you first start out, you'd definitely want to only do 1-2 days per week and scale the workouts down. Most people are not prepared for the intensity of Crossfit workouts, so you'd definitely want to get into them gradually. Once you're going full tilt though and have a proper diet to match, CF is definitely a great tool towards exceptional overall fitness.

As for your cardio question, if by "cardio" you mean the traditional jogging/biking/elliptical type exercise, it depends on your goal. In general, traditional cardio activites help improve your endurance, stamina and other health indicators and if those are important to you, then you can definitely toss in some cardio on off days from lifting. As far as weight loss, however, cardio's only role is that it's an efficient way to burn calories. So if you need to increase your caloric deficit, feel free to do some, but make sure you aren't (over) compensating by eating more, as it will have no effect otherwise.

It's worth noting that "cardio" is already part of Crossfit. However, rather than doing traditional long slow distance (LSD) training, Crossfit typically uses metcon (metabolic conditioning) workouts. These usually combine multiple types of exercises (weight lifting, running, gymnastics, etc) and are done at very high intensity. Although they don't look like standard cardio, these short workouts can produce the same (and often far better) improvements in endurance/stamina/health indicators while also building strength, speed, power, agility, etc. So if you do Crossfit, you don't have to worry about "cardio" at all - it's already taken care of. And if you don't want to do Crossfit, you could do Starting Strength or Stronglifts 5x5 two days a week (Monday and Thursday) and do 1 or 2 "metcon" CF workouts in between (on Tuesday & Wednesday).
 
How much cardio should I be doing? Is my current level good or should I add more?

As for a 4day plan, what about something like this in terms of groups?
Mon - Legs
Tuesday - Chest + Tris
Wednesday - Back and Bis
Thursday - Shoulders + traps
That depends on what exactly you plan on doing. If you must workout 4 days back to back it may work fine, but that would depend on exercise selection and volume. If it's anything like the first routine you posted, definitely not. Alternatively (since I forgot you were only working out Monday-Thursday) you could do an upper/lower/full body split. For example, Monday (Lower), Tuesday (Upper), Wednesday (Rest or cardio), Thursday (Full body). This way everything gets hit twice a week. Or you could just do a full body workout Monday and Thursday and do cardio Tuesday and Wednesday so at least you're in the gym those 4 days.

As for cardio, 20-30 minutes 2-3x a week is fine. If you need more, you can add more later, but most of the fat loss will come from your diet anyway.
 
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