Criticism over Conroe's Benchmark at Anandtech

[l Xes l]

QUOTE:'

Intel's new Conroe looks to give AMD a punch to the gut -- or maybe not

Benchmarks posted yesterday of Intel's unreleased Conroe processor have sparked quite a firestorm in forums around the web. Users from both the AMD and Intel camp were quick to examine the numbers provided in the articles, but the end result was still the same -- Intel has a slam dunk with Conroe.

As is the case with benchmarks held outside of a controlled environment and conducted with equipment provided by a party that has something to gain from favorable performance numbers, suspicions have arisen over the benchmark results.

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=1170

To quote Rahul Sood directly:

Quote:
First of all, though it?s claimed that you?re running an FX-60 processor on the machine, I have yet to see an established motherboard and processor with an image that says "processor unknown".

You?ll notice that the image I am referring to on Anandtech's website (the bios image) states that the AMD processor is ?unknown? which makes me believe that the bios they are running is outdated. So, I did a bit of digging and low and behold, the DFI bios version ?D49C-32? they are running is from 10/11/05. There has been 1 major revision with major fixes that include:

Set Cool 'n' Quiet Default to Disabled

- With Cool & Quiet enabled, AMD processors will throttle in order to save power and bring their thermal load down. This means the processor could be running as low as 800MHz in certain programs ? no matter what the program is. In theory Cool & Quiet is supposed to throttle up to maximum in games but this is not always the case. No enthusiast PC goes out with Cool & Quiet enabled unless it?s a fanless machine or media center.

Add Support for AMD Athlon 64 FX60 CPU

- According to DFI the FX-60 will not operate correctly without this bios update. Without official support for the FX-60 CPU I?m not sure what we?re comparing against here.

Fix Memory Timings 2-1-1-1-1 and 4-1-1 Mode Wrong & Fix Read Preamble Table Error.

- Memory latency can make a massive difference in performance. If the latency was not running at the correct latency we can see a pretty big difference in all kinds of performance. Anandtech stated ?The AMD system used 1GB of DDR400 running at 2-2-2/1T timings?? Apparently this isn?t the case, but they would not be able to tell without having the platform in house.

Fix Fill 3114 SVID&SSID under Cross fire mode.

- More apparent performance issues under Crossfire mode.

Next, when you take a future Intel chipset and compare it to a chipset that no enthusiast supports (RD480) with an outdated bios it?s like taking a Ferrari and putting it on Bias-Ply tires. It?s just not a good way to show off a ?new? technology.

 

[Sable]

Check the update article:

http://www.anandtech.com/tradeshows/showdoc.aspx?i=2716

 

[l Xes l]

Originally posted by: Sable
Check the update article:

http://www.anandtech.com/tradeshows/showdoc.aspx?i=2716

yea i just saw it... conroe still is teh winnar1!1!11

 

[F1shF4t]

Originally posted by: Sable
Check the update article:

http://www.anandtech.com/tradeshows/showdoc.aspx?i=2716

That clarifies some of the things.
One other thing i would be interested to know is how they recompiled the drivers and what compiler they used.

Otherwise if those results are correct conroe sure looks good, and i might consider it as an upgrade in 9+ months, assuming there is nothing better at that stage.

 

[BlingBlingArsch]

i just cant imagine that Intel will offer them for a good price. Ill wait 12months from now and AMD will be back with a 65nm CPU for 150,- occable to a CPU worth like 500$...cuz thats what i want and the reason why i buy AMD

 

[j00fek]

Originally posted by: BlingBlingArsch
i just cant imagine that Intel will offer them for a good price. Ill wait 12months from now and AMD will be back with a 65nm CPU for 150,- occable to a CPU worth like 500$...cuz thats what i want and the reason why i buy AMD

:thumbsup:

 

[SoCalBoomer]

Thank you Anand. That was all I was asking for - just a bit of reassurance that you were doing everything you could do to be objective. when something looks too good to be true. . .it often is! LOL

Great followup.

 

[SexyK]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but you can see Conroe pricing here:

Text

Don't know where you're getting the idea that these will somehow be dominated in price/performance by AMD... not much evidence to support that...

 

[Jules]

Originally posted by: SexyK
Sorry to burst your bubble, but you can see Conroe pricing here:

Text

Don't know where you're getting the idea that these will somehow be dominated in price/performance by AMD... not much evidence to support that...

its dailytech. nuff said.

 

[DrMrLordX]

The E6300 looks like an overclocker's dream come true.

 

[rancherlee]

If you really think Intel is going to release a chip that cheap that has a 20% + performance lead over its competition you are kidding yourself. Intel has Investors that want there pockets lined with gold, They are only going to release a chip thats 5-10% faster and ONLY release the faster speed chips at PREMIUM prices when AMD counter acts with faster chips. IF those prices ARE right then Intel must know something about AMD that we don't (which is probibly something to compete with Conroe) Niether Intel OR AMD is going to take more than a 10% performance lead over each other, its not in the INVESTORS best interests.

 

[FelixDeCat]

Rahul enjoyed his .10 nanoseconds of fame. Next!

 

[TrevorRC]

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat
Rahul enjoyed his .10 nanoseconds of fame. Next!

Rahul is the owner of Voodoo PC and a relatively important person in the enthusiast community [industry, actually].

I'd call him relatively famous already

 

[FelixDeCat]

Originally posted by: TrevorRC

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat
Rahul enjoyed his .10 nanoseconds of fame. Next!

Rahul is the owner of Voodoo PC and a relatively important person in the enthusiast community [industry, actually].

I'd call him relatively famous already

First Ive heard of 'em.

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat

Originally posted by: TrevorRC

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat
Rahul enjoyed his .10 nanoseconds of fame. Next!

Rahul is the owner of Voodoo PC and a relatively important person in the enthusiast community [industry, actually].

I'd call him relatively famous already

First Ive heard of 'em.

I wish it was the last I heard of you!!!

 

[Quinton McLeod]

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat

Originally posted by: TrevorRC

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat
Rahul enjoyed his .10 nanoseconds of fame. Next!

Rahul is the owner of Voodoo PC and a relatively important person in the enthusiast community [industry, actually].

I'd call him relatively famous already

First Ive heard of 'em.

Rahul is actually a pretty well respected figure in the enthusiast industry. His opinions are also very well respected as well. His reputation at Voodoo PC does proceed him.

 

[dmens]

And he was dead wrong. That guy really had no clue how the mobo works together the proc (cpuid string wtf?!?). So he has a rep amongst enthusaists... does that make him the king of dilettantes? LOL!

 

[Quinton McLeod]

Originally posted by: dmens
And he was dead wrong. That guy really had no clue how the mobo works together the proc (cpuid string wtf?!?). So he has a rep amongst enthusaists... does that make him the king of dilettantes? LOL!

You can't be a master chef if you only read half of each recipe you use.
Translation: Read everything and not just half of it!

Read his comments for that particular entry. Someone already addressed this and he responded quite bluntly.

 

[dmens]

Dude, I think you need a better translator than that. Your posts are completely incomprehensible.

 

[Shimmishim]

Originally posted by: rancherlee
If you really think Intel is going to release a chip that cheap that has a 20% + performance lead over its competition you are kidding yourself. Intel has Investors that want there pockets lined with gold, They are only going to release a chip thats 5-10% faster and ONLY release the faster speed chips at PREMIUM prices when AMD counter acts with faster chips. IF those prices ARE right then Intel must know something about AMD that we don't (which is probibly something to compete with Conroe) Niether Intel OR AMD is going to take more than a 10% performance lead over each other, its not in the INVESTORS best interests.

well... the benches speak for themselves...

conroe does have a 20%+ performance lead over AMD's FX-60 in those redone benches that AT ran.

I also remember reading in anand's blog that when intel releases a chip, the performance of the previewed version is the same as that of the retail ones that become available later...

 

[pedramrezai]

The way most of the people are thinking is just the way Intel has planned. I am a AMD fan but I can realize competition is good for customers. I was shocked by Core performance but using a handicapped AMD system really annoyed me. First, reviewers have already proven RD580 or solutions with dual 16x can deliver up to 10-15% more performance when paired with high-end, bandwith hungry vga cards. Second, we have been hearing of dual core optimizations in display drivers for some time but were unable to see something significant until we saw Conroe performance; I am quite suspicious over some hefty optimizations in intel-cooked display driver. Time will reveal. Third, this might be the beginning of a new SSEx game with unfair optimizations for a new technoogy.
I am surprized how people are trashing the current as well as future AMD64 technology.But remember that Core is not out yet and all these might be some optimizations that has granted it this performance level. Moreover, the current AMD64 technology is almost 3 years old and the new AM2 will update its specs. AMD did not like DDR2 high latency; What they are looking for is its higher frequency that can be paired with the new AM2 FSB.For Athlon 64 and Sempron a 333mhz FSB that paires with DDR2 666 and for the Fx parts a 400 mhz FSB pairing with DDR2 800. If DDR1 could reach these frequencies you could now see the real potential of AMD64. This kind of bandwith will give Core a hard time. Also remember that AMD is increasing cache (L2 and maybe L3). Shared cache is also something that will be seen in the future products and will bring huge performance gains. Based on the preliminary data of 200/266 async single channel bandwith of 3500mb/s a memory bandwith of >10k is expected in the final product and if Intel was going to compare its future platform, it was not fare to compare it with an infrastructure of >2 years old. I am sure the new AM2 will regain AMD reputation once again. But we all must remember that this competition between major players is good for the end users.

 

[pedramrezai]

The way most of the people are thinking is just the way Intel has planned. I am a AMD fan but I can realize competition is good for customers. I was shocked by Core performance but using a handicapped AMD system really annoyed me. First, reviewers have already proven RD580 or solutions with dual 16x can deliver up to 10-15% more performance when paired with high-end, bandwith hungry vga cards. Second, we have been hearing of dual core optimizations in display drivers for some time but were unable to see something significant until we saw Conroe performance; I am quite suspicious over some hefty optimizations in intel-cooked display driver. Time will reveal. Third, this might be the beginning of a new SSEx game with unfair optimizations for a new technoogy.
I am surprized how people are trashing the current as well as future AMD64 technology.But remember that Core is not out yet and all these might be some optimizations that has granted it this performance level. Moreover, the current AMD64 technology is almost 3 years old and the new AM2 will update its specs. AMD did not like DDR2 high latency; What they are looking for is its higher frequency that can be paired with the new AM2 FSB.For Athlon 64 and Sempron a 333mhz FSB that paires with DDR2 666 and for the Fx parts a 400 mhz FSB pairing with DDR2 800. If DDR1 could reach these frequencies you could now see the real potential of AMD64. This kind of bandwith will give Core a hard time. Also remember that AMD is increasing cache (L2 and maybe L3). Shared cache is also something that will be seen in the future products and will bring huge performance gains. Based on the preliminary data of 200/266 async single channel bandwith of 3500mb/s a memory bandwith of >10k is expected in the final product and if Intel was going to compare its future platform, it was not fare to compare it with an infrastructure of >2 years old. I am sure the new AM2 will regain AMD reputation once again. But we all must remember that this competition between major players is good for the end users.