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Creditors are Heartless

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nonlnear said:
Only greed justifies any business that is worth existing.
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There are businesses out there not based on greed, I'm sure you're smart enough to think of some examples. Your statement is disturbing however in more subtle and fundamental ways.
 
MJinZ said:
There are businesses out there not based on greed, I'm sure you're smart enough to think of some examples. Your statement is disturbing however in more subtle and fundamental ways.
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I didn't say that greed had to be the founding principle, or the only thing the owner cared about. However if the business can't justify itself on profitability alone (and thus justify its existence on greed alone - even if that's not the only justification the owners use), then it doesn't really have any business calling itself a business. It would then be more of a charity or hobby hybrid, or just a failure of a business. There is a place for charity, but it's best not to call that business...
 
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nonlnear said:
I didn't say that greed had to be the founding principle, or the only thing the owner cared about. However if the business can't justify itself on profitability alone (and thus justify its existence on greed alone - even if that's not the only justification the owners use), then it doesn't really have any business calling itself a business. It would then be more of a charity or hobby hybrid, or just a failure of a business. There is a place for charity, but it's best not to call that business...
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You're saying people shouldn't start businesses doing what they love to do? Fortunately, there are people who do what they like doing without consideration for the maximization of their profit. Sure, everyone needs to make a living, but making a living alone is not necessarily an appealing life. Otherwise, we would all be miserable lawyers, bankers, and politicians.
 
MJinZ said:
You're saying people shouldn't start businesses doing what they love to do? Fortunately, there are people who do what they like doing without consideration for the maximization of their profit. Otherwise, we would all be miserable lawyers, bankers, and politicians.
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Not at all. People are probably going to be most successful if they do choose to start businesses in something they love. However if the business can't justify its existence on realistic projections of profitability, then it has no business existing. Creditors don't care about how much love an owner has for a losing business, and that's the way it should be.

And you are being pretty ignorant about career choices. You think painters, tilers, framers, and plumbers all chose their jobs out of pure giddy passion? Plenty of them are emotionally ambivalent about their trades, but they do it because it can be damn good money. I'm sure somebody somewhere decided pumping septic tanks was pure joy, but 99% of the people making good money at it are doing so for cold hard cash.
 
nonlnear said:
I didn't say that greed had to be the founding principle, or the only thing the owner cared about. However if the business can't justify itself on profitability alone (and thus justify its existence on greed alone - even if that's not the only justification the owners use), then it doesn't really have any business calling itself a business. It would then be more of a charity or hobby hybrid, or just a failure of a business. There is a place for charity, but it's best not to call that business...
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Well, although I agree with you, the distinction needs to made between greed and desire for profit. Not the same. People throw greed around pretty haphazardly.
 
MJinZ said:
You're saying people shouldn't start businesses doing what they love to do? Fortunately, there are people who do what they like doing without consideration for the maximization of their profit. Sure, everyone needs to make a living, but making a living alone is not necessarily an appealing life. Otherwise, we would all be miserable lawyers, bankers, and politicians.
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People who do what they love on their off time call it a hobby. People who do it for profit are called bussinesspeople. See the difference?
 
txrandom said:
So you are saying all the non-profit businesses are greedy as well?
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Many of them are. They just have different avenues for disbursing their profits. (And yes, not for profits DO make profits, or else they wouldn't stay in business.) For example there is very little operational difference between many not for profit insurance companies and the for profits.

Here (and in most threads) I am using greedy in the algorithmic sense: they seek to maximize an objective function, profits in this case. It's not about emotions or values. That's completely separate. There are some non profits that are cold heartless bastards, and there are some for profit corporations that treat you like family. The whole for profit/not for profit distinction is a bit of legal jargon that has very little to do with organizational values, except by coincidence.
 
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28% isn't unreasonable after the loan is already in default, after the bank already tried to collect and you didn't pay, after the bank already took you to court and you didn't bother to even show up, and you still didn't pay and the bank had to garnish your wages.

His wages were simply too low for the garnishment to be large enough to pay off the debt, so the debt kept mounting up.

There's a limit to how much can be garnished, which is a big part of the reason that the debt went on and on.
 
It's a sad story and I feel for the guy. I wouldn't call the lender heartless, though.

When he needed a loan, they offered him one, and he agreed to the terms. Neither I nor anyone else on this thread offered him a loan at any price. I guess that makes us really heartless.
 
Not exactly news. You should read about the banks foreclosing on dirt farmers in the 30's. I don't know how the bankers lived with themselves.
 
Jhhnn said:
That way, lenders who pick lemons get lemons, instead of lemonade...
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I posted earlier what S.C. charges and the "consequences" of not paying the lender.

Who's this guy going to borrow from is lenders don't take a chance? Not you or 99% of the people here.
 
Jhhnn said:
No argument with people paying back what they've borrowed. OTOH, when things don't work out as planned, it's no excuse for usury, either. At 27.55% interest, it's no wonder creditors are merciless- they probably break out the party hats when they obtain garnishments... they have no incentive to work it out with debtors, that's for sure...
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I would give thanks if every customer I have paid on time and I never collected any late fees or additional $$.
 
So he took a loan, didnt pay it, was sued and didnt even bother to show up for court? And we are supposed to feel bad for this douche? Sorry, sympathy not found.
 
MJinZ said:
Predatory lending... a history of not paying should not be given a loan at all. Only greed justifies 30% interest.
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I call BS. My average rate is 35%. My average customer's fico is 550 or less. These people can't go to the bank when their car breaks down. Nor can they get credit cards. So who here is going to lend to them? ..........

waiting........waiting........

I wrote off $32,000 last year for non payment, about 10% owed to me. That's my $$. I take the risk, I get the reward/loss. Did I mention that $32K was my money?
 
Be careful in wishing for lower caps on loan interest. What that will do is make sure nobody with a lousy credit record can get a loan at any price. Is that automatically a better situation?

I don't want to see anyone being screwed by lenders, but overall I think it's better for people to have options.
 
nonlnear said:
You cruel heartless bastard. Everyone knows you are lying. 😉
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Maybe little. O.K. every customer pays 11 days late so that I collect the late fee and still don't have to work for my 35%

90% of my time is spent doing collection work and 30% past due, at any given time, is typical for my industry.
 
kranky said:
Be careful in wishing for lower caps on loan interest. What that will do is make sure nobody with a lousy credit record can get a loan at any price. Is that automatically a better situation?

I don't want to see anyone being screwed by lenders, but overall I think it's better for people to have options.
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The fed and tricky Dick Durbin have been looking at capping the national rate at 36% APR. On a 6 month contract, I'll earn 35% per $100. But that makes an APR of ~70%. So a lot, like me, that lend under a $1K will go out of business. That leaves the guy on the corner lending at 25%/week with NO regulation. Guess who that guy will be if this takes place?:sneaky:
 
highland145 said:
Maybe little. O.K. every customer pays 11 days late so that I collect the late fee and still don't have to work for my 35%

90% of my time is spent doing collection work and 30% past due, at any given time, is typical for my industry.
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I was kidding, hence the 😉. Now if an extra fee really meant no extra hassle for you that sure would be nice, but that's quite the hypothetical. Late customers are a pain.
 
nonlnear said:
I was kidding, hence the 😉. Now if an extra fee really meant no extra hassle for you that sure would be nice, but that's quite the hypothetical. Late customers are a pain.
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I knew you were but that sure would be sweet. 500 customers at $6.60=$3300 extra in my pocket. Meet you at the bar, I'm buying.😀
 
nonlnear said:
I was kidding, hence the 😉. Now if an extra fee really meant no extra hassle for you that sure would be nice, but that's quite the hypothetical. Late customers are a pain.
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I don't know, I'd put up with a lot of hassle if it meant I could get 14k from a 4k loan.
 
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