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Credit History Repair?

S

Skaven

Senior member
I applied for a car loan in January and was rejected. I decided to send in for my credit history just to see how (bad?) things were - I received it yesterday. I suppose I am wondering if you guys have any experience trying to 'clear up' your credit history.

For me it started a few years ago. I had a job where my paychecks were actually bouncing. It took me a while to get out of that job - but while it was happening, I couldn't pay my student loans or my credit cards. So my history is a bit tainted. For the past three years I've had two steady jobs (one after the other) with paychecks direct deposited, credit cards paid on time, and I fully paid off my student loan.

My current 'credit' situation:

I rent my room from my friend that owns the house. I own both of my cars (both purchased in cash). My paychecks are direct deposited. I own a cell phone (paid on time). I have no loans. Credit cards:

AT&T Universal Card (first credit card, since '95) $0 balance - never really use it
Discover Card: $400 balance - will be paid off next month
Citibank Platinum: $0 balance - don't really use it
US Bank NWA miles card: $1,000 balance (just purchased some furniture, will be paid off with tax return)
US Bank Corporate card: varied balance, work pays it in full monthly

I'm not really using the other cards, because I've decided that the miles are worth more to me. Should I cancel the AT&T and Citibank cards? Does it look bad to cancel two cards at around the same time? I suppose I'd be happy with just my NWA and Discover cards (didn't get approved for an Amex Blue). The Corporate card is required for work.

My history report has 6! 'Prior payment history' ding - the most recent being 8/99. Like I said, I was in trouble a while back. 4 of them are from being late paying my loan, and the other two are from credit cards. I admit that I was late paying - but is there any way to get those off my history outside of waiting the required 6 years?

I also have an obscene amount of credit history requests. 36!!! in the last two years. Is that normal? Any way to get those off my history?

I guess I'm just trying to get my financial situation back in order. I'm probably going to hold off on that 'new car' for now anyway... but I'd like to clean up my past and improve my credit for the future! Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated!
 
I think it's the credit requests that are killing you and not the history itself. Now how you go about clearing that I'm not sure of. Call TRW or one of the other credit rating companies and ask them how to eliminate this info from your records.
 
Here is a few ideas:

1. Close all zero balance credit accounts you aren't using. These affect your credit negatively because it shows how much trouble you "could" get in.

2. Order your credit report from all three agencies. Make sure there are no mistakes.

3. Each agency has a process you must go through to contest information on your report. Contest every negative mark on your reports to each agency, even if you think it may be factual. The credit agency must then contact the creditor, and they have 60 days to respond and verify the information. If they don't, the mark is removed. Most people who do this get about half of the bad stuff removed from their credit reports.

Yes, I know number three seems slightly dishonest, but I can't stand that even payments lost in the mail count against you for seven f'cking years. This caused me a few problems in my twenties until I realized that automatic payments are your friend.
 


<< I also have an obscene amount of credit history requests. 36!!! in the last two years. Is that normal? Any way to get those off my history? >>



Double check those... I believe you'll find that most of those don't show up on a report a creditor recieves. They are requests from people wanting to qualify you for a pre-approved something or other, and they don't negatively affect your credit rating.
 
It is possible to repair very bad credit. Do not hire anyone to do it for you, as they can do nothing you cannot do yourself.

In 1998 I borrowed a book entitled Living Financially Free by James L. Paris, 1995. It had a chapter on credit repair, and how to do it legally. In about six months I had perfect credit, and this includes the removal of accurate negative information. I had removed everything that was considered negative removed, from too many request to a business related bankruptcy.

John
 
<<1. Close all zero balance credit accounts you aren't using. These affect your credit negatively because it shows how much trouble you "could" get in.>>

I must disagree with this point. As you currently stand, you do not have excessive number of CC's. In computing your credit score, companies use a metric that takes your outstanding debt and divides it by your total credit. It is to see how much of your total credit you are using. If you go ahead and cancel cards, it will look like you are increasing the % of credit you are using.

Let me give you an example:

I have 4 CC's

Amex Blue: 7.5K limit, no balance
Chase Platinum: 10K limit, no balance
First USA Platinum: 31K limit, no balance
Juniper Platinum: 12.5K limit; 10,000 balance @ 1.9%

So, total credit capacity is 61K, 10K of which is used or 16.4%

If I canceled my first USA card, my ratio would jump from 16.4% to 33%... that would not be good.
 


<< <<1. Close all zero balance credit accounts you aren't using. These affect your credit negatively because it shows how much trouble you "could" get in.>>

I must disagree with this point. As you currently stand, you do not have excessive number of CC's. In computing your credit score, companies use a metric that takes your outstanding debt and divides it by your total credit. It is to see how much of your total credit you are using. If you go ahead and cancel cards, it will look like you are increasing the % of credit you are using.

Let me give you an example:

I have 4 CC's

Amex Blue: 7.5K limit, no balance
Chase Platinum: 10K limit, no balance
First USA Platinum: 31K limit, no balance
Juniper Platinum: 12.5K limit; 10,000 balance @ 1.9%

So, total credit capacity is 61K, 10K of which is used or 16.4%

If I canceled my first USA card, my ratio would jump from 16.4% to 33%... that would not be good. >>



Sorry, but credit companies look at how much open credit you have. If your available credit is high enough that were it charged up your payment to income ratio would be too high, they consider you higher risk than were you not to have that credit available.

From the FTC on credit rating:



<< Although it is generally good to have established credit accounts, too many credit card accounts may have a negative effect on your score. >>



From a credit counseling service:



<< Creditors frown on applicants who have a lot of open credit. So keeping many cards may mean that you'll be turned down for other credit -- perhaps credit you really need. And if your credit applications are turned down, your file will contain inquiries from the companies that rejected you. Your credit file will look like you were desperately trying to get credit, something creditors never like to see. >>



You can disagree all you want, but this DOES affect your score.
 
I will agree with Mister T on his point as far as home loans. Of all the real estate people I have talked to, lenders often see low or no balance credit cards as a potential source of mortgage payment should one or both of married couple lose their jobs. With the amount of foreclosures they are having to do, having an open credit line can help get you the loan if you are otherwise borderline on their debt to income formula. This is straight from several real estate professionals in my RE classes that I took last semester. The professor, who was also in RE, agreed this was the case.
 


<< I will agree with Mister T on his point. Of all the real estate people I have talked to, lenders often see low or no balance credit cards as a potential source of mortgage payment should one or both of married couple lose their jobs. With the amount of foreclosures they are having to do, having an open credit line can help get you the loan if you are otherwise borderline on being approved. This is straight from several real estate professionals in my RE classes that I took last semester. The professor, who was also in RE, agreed this was the case. >>



Fine, then every credit score site and credit counseling site AND the FTC are full of sh!t, right?

Folks, too much open credit has a negative effect on your score. I challenge anyone to find a credit advice site that says differently.

Now, I'm not saying that having a couple 0 balance cards is bad. I'm saying having many 0 balance cards that when charged up will make your payments higher than your optimal income to payment ratio will negatively affect your score. Creditors see this as a disaster waiting to happen.

Now, if you still don't believe me, type in "too much open credit" in Google (use the quotes) and see how many freakin' pages pop up. ALL telling you that too much open credit is BAD.
 
Skaven - I agree with Mister T. It sounds like your credit problems are:
1) Derrogatory credit (late payments is usually the culprit).
2) Excessive inquiries.

I hope you have learned to keep accurate records, otherwise you're pretty SOL. I would take a look at all the late payment dates and research if you were really late on those payments (this is why getting your cancelled checks with your bank statement every month is a good idea) by comparing them with your records.

If you don't remember applying for any of those 36 credit inquiries I would dispute those with the 3 major credit bureau's ask them to show you proof that you did apply for those accounts.

Close all but 2 cc's, DO NOT apply for any credit what so ever even if it's a pre-approved offer for at least 1 year and order a copy of your credit bureau in 1 year hopefully most of the inquiries will have fallen off by then. But buying a car or house on credit will have to wait for a VERY long time.

Whatever you do don't fall for one of those credit repair scams, no matter how good it sounds.

JohnnyReb - Thanks for that book suggestion I might check it out, looks like it only cost $2 used from Amazon.com, not bad at all.

 
Calm down. I am only telling you what I have heard. I don't make the rules. And yes I have read the FCRA more times than I care to mention in cleaning up my own credit, and I agree with most of your points.





<<

<< I will agree with Mister T on his point. Of all the real estate people I have talked to, lenders often see low or no balance credit cards as a potential source of mortgage payment should one or both of married couple lose their jobs. With the amount of foreclosures they are having to do, having an open credit line can help get you the loan if you are otherwise borderline on being approved. This is straight from several real estate professionals in my RE classes that I took last semester. The professor, who was also in RE, agreed this was the case. >>



Fine, then every credit score site and credit counseling site AND the FTC are full of sh!t, right?

Folks, too much open credit has a negative effect on your score. I challenge anyone to find a credit advice site that says differently.

Now, I'm not saying that having a couple 0 balance cards is bad. I'm saying having many 0 balance cards that when charged up will make your payments higher than your optimal income to payment ratio will negatively affect your score. Creditors see this as a disaster waiting to happen.

Now, if you still don't believe me, type in "too much open credit" in Google (use the quotes) and see how many freakin' pages pop up. ALL telling you that too much open credit is BAD. >>

 
Too many inquiries is bad of course. They are wiped off in 2 years, but contribute to your fico score for 12 months. So this means that for the most part those that happened more than a year ago don't really matter.
 


<< Calm down. I am only telling you what I have heard. I don't make the rules. And yes I have read the FCRA more times than I care to mention in cleaning up my own credit, and I agree with most of your points. >>



Sorry, I just can't stand to see bad advice given out.
 
AmusedOne

Here is my evidence:

http://www.myfico.com/myfico/CreditCentral/ScoreConsiders/Tips/AmountsOwed.asp

How much is too much?
APPROXIMATELY 30% OF YOUR SCORE IS BASED ON THIS CATEGORY.

Having credit accounts and owing money on them does not mean you are a high-risk borrower with a low score. However, owing a great deal of money on many accounts can indicate that a person is overextended, and is more likely to make some payments late or not at all. Part of the science of scoring is determining how much is too much for a given credit profile.

Your score takes into account:
The amount owed on all accounts.
Note that even if you pay off your credit cards in full every month, your credit report may show a balance on those cards. The total balance on your last statement is generally the amount that will show in your credit report.
The amount owed on all accounts, and on different types of accounts.
In addition to the overall amount you owe, the score considers the amount you owe on specific types of accounts, such as credit cards and installment loans.
Whether you are showing a balance on certain types of accounts.
In some cases, having a very small balance without missing a payment shows that you have managed credit responsibly, and may be slightly better than no balance at all. On the other hand, closing unused credit accounts that show zero balances and that are in good standing will not generally raise your score.
How many accounts have balances.
A large number can indicate higher risk of over-extension.
How much of the total credit line is being used on credit cards and other "revolving credit" accounts.
Someone closer to "maxing out" on many credit cards may have trouble making payments in the future.
How much of installment loan accounts is still owed, compared with the original loan amounts.
For example, if you borrowed $10,000 to buy a car and you have paid back $2,000, you owe (with interest) more than 80% of the original loan. Paying down installment loans is a good sign that you are able and willing to manage and repay.


http://www.myfico.com/MyFICO/CreditCentral/ScoreConsiders/Tips/AmountsOwedTip.asp

Tips for Raising Your Score #2

Keep balances low on credit cards and other "revolving credit."
High outstanding debt can affect a score.
Pay off debt rather than moving it around.
The most effective way to improve your score in this area is by paying down your revolving credit. In fact, owing the same amount but having fewer open accounts may lower your score.
Don't close unused credit cards as a short-term strategy to raise your score.
Don't open a number of new credit cards that you don't need, just to increase your available credit.
This approach could backfire and actually lower your score.

 
AmusedOne, I work in finance (I'm a mortage broker) and you are completely wrong. I know this both from professional knowledge and from looking at people's credit reports all day, every day.
An extremely important part of your credit history and the credit scoring model is the ratio of the amount of credit used versus the amount of credit available. Having a large amount of open and unused credit is good. To lenders, it represents three things: first, that you may have had excess debt and were able to pay it down in a timely manner and second, that in the event you do get into trouble (i.e. lose your job) that you will have excess reserves with which to continue paying your bills in timely manner, a cushion until you get a new job, etc. and third, that you have the ability to have available unused credit and not use it, a demonstration of responsibility that lenders find very important.
It is very common for me to see customers who have a perfect pay history but low to borderline scores because they are maxed out on their available credit lines. The reason for this is that lenders know that these people are one bad month away from disaster. Contrariwise, I see many people who have average pay histories (with isolated late payments but none recent) and a lot of available unused credit lines who have good, acceptable scores. People with very high scores (i.e. over 720) always have perfect pay histories and an excellent amount of available unused credit line.

Skaven, if you have never had a major derog on your credit (i.e. bankruptcy, foreclosure, repossession, etc.), if you do not have any current outstanding judgements or collections, and you have maintained a clean payment history for the past 24 or more months, then credit was probably not the reason why you were turned down for the car loan. Did they, by chance, tell you what your credit score was? PM me if you want. What may have been the reason, if you were looking for a particular car at a dealership for example, is that you were paying too much for the car and/or weren't providing enough down payment. Another possible reason may have been high debt-to-income ratio (but contrary to AmusedOne's ignorant remarks, unused credit absolutely never shows up in DTR calculations at any lender). Or it could have been a combination of all three. In underwriting, there is an issue known as "risk layering," where a borrower who is borderline in multiple criteria may be turned down.

There is no way to clean up items on your credit report if the information is accurate. I can't stress that enough. If you were late on a payment, that information will stay on your credit report for 7 years. There is no way to remove it. If you don't like that then (excuse me) don't be late.

Here is my advice: Keep your open credit card accounts but do not use them, except sparingly. They are all from major credit card issuers and that is positive. Never open finance company or merchant bank accounts. Those are not positive because the use of those credit lines is limited (as opposed to a major credit card, which can be used most anywhere). Pay all your bills on time.

Good luck.

 
PSYWVic,

I am with you 100%... I also had a quick question for you.
My parents are looking to Refi their mortgage with a 7-year balloon.
I got a quote for 5 and 5/8 paying 2 points with about 1500 in closing.
The principle is 150K and the house costs 325-350K
Credit is Excellent.

I think the terms are good, do they sound good to you?
 


<< AmusedOne, I work in finance (I'm a mortage broker) and you are completely wrong. I know this both from professional knowledge and from looking at people's credit reports all day, every day.
An extremely important part of your credit history and the credit scoring model is the ratio of the amount of credit used versus the amount of credit available. Having a large amount of open and unused credit is good. To lenders, it represents three things: first, that you may have had excess debt and were able to pay it down in a timely manner and second, that in the event you do get into trouble (i.e. lose your job) that you will have excess reserves with which to continue paying your bills in timely manner, a cushion until you get a new job, etc. and third, that you have the ability to have available unused credit and not use it, a demonstration of responsibility that lenders find very important.
It is very common for me to see customers who have a perfect pay history but low to borderline scores because they are maxed out on their available credit lines. The reason for this is that lenders know that these people are one bad month away from disaster. Contrariwise, I see many people who have average pay histories (with isolated late payments but none recent) and a lot of available unused credit lines who have good, acceptable scores. People with very high scores (i.e. over 720) always have perfect pay histories and an excellent amount of available unused credit line.

Skaven, if you have never had a major derog on your credit (i.e. bankruptcy, foreclosure, repossession, etc.), if you do not have any current outstanding judgements or collections, and you have maintained a clean payment history for the past 24 or more months, then credit was probably not the reason why you were turned down for the car loan. Did they, by chance, tell you what your credit score was? PM me if you want. What may have been the reason, if you were looking for a particular car at a dealership for example, is that you were paying too much for the car and/or weren't providing enough down payment. Another possible reason may have been high debt-to-income ratio (but contrary to AmusedOne's ignorant remarks, unused credit absolutely never shows up in DTR calculations at any lender). Or it could have been a combination of all three. In underwriting, there is an issue known as "risk layering," where a borrower who is borderline in multiple criteria may be turned down.

There is no way to clean up items on your credit report if the information is accurate. I can't stress that enough. If you were late on a payment, that information will stay on your credit report for 7 years. There is no way to remove it. If you don't like that then (excuse me) don't be late.

Here is my advice: Keep your open credit card accounts but do not use them, except sparingly. They are all from major credit card issuers and that is positive. Never open finance company or merchant bank accounts. Those are not positive because the use of those credit lines is limited (as opposed to a major credit card, which can be used most anywhere). Pay all your bills on time.

Good luck. >>



All I have to say is, you're not calling ME ignorant, but the FTC and countless credit counseling organizations.

You people are NOT understanding what I'm talking about.

If the open credit availible to you EXCEEDS your ability to pay were it all charged up, this WILL have a negative affect on your credit. I am not saying that open unused credit is bad. I'm saying that TOO MUCH open credit is bad.

And yes, having little credit and having it charged close or to the max is bad too. What they look for is a balance.

From Experian.com's (straight from the horse's mouth) FAQ:


<< ...On the upside, you will delete a credit line, which may be viewed as a positive action by creditors if you have too much open credit. By reducing the amount of credit you have available, you also reduce your ability to get too deeply in debt. >>


From Financial Success For College Students


<< Always close the "old" card to avoid having a high "line of credit (too much open credit). Write a letter to the card issuer and include your account number and Social Security number. Tell them to close the account and report to the credit bureau that the account was closed at consumer's request.
 >>



And finally, one can dispute every bad mark on their credit, no matter how factual it may be. If the lender does not respond in 30 days (I'm correcting myself here), the mark MUST be removed. There ARE ALWAYS some lenders who will fail to respond. It's a game of luck. The easiest marks to get removed by this are those from smaller finance companies, and flakey, fly-by-night collection agencies.

And don't tell me it can't be done. I did it eight years ago and got nearly 50% of the bad marks on my credit removed. Enough, in fact, to secure a business loan.
 


<< PSYWVic,

I am with you 100%... I also had a quick question for you.
My parents are looking to Refi their mortgage with a 7-year balloon.
I got a quote for 5 and 5/8 paying 2 points with about 1500 in closing.
The principle is 150K and the house costs 325-350K
Credit is Excellent.

I think the terms are good, do they sound good to you? >>



Sorry to be so late in responding.

That's a great rate, even on a 7/23 balloon. Points and fees appear fine, as it looks like they would be buying the rate down a little (which, excuse me, doesn't make a whole lot of sense on a balloon loan but I don't know the whole picture). Contrary to popular opinion, getting the lowest rate is not everything. If you have to buy down to get the rate, you have to look at how much it costs to get that rate versus how long you will keep the mortgage/stay in the home in order to recoup that initial cost. If the goal is to stay in the home indefinitely, then it usually makes the most sense to buy down and get the lowest rate. If the intention is to refinance or sell the home in the near future, then it is usually better to get a slightly higher rate and pay less in points/fees. In any case, with a 7/23 balloon, your parents will be refinancing in seven years, so you need to take a look at how that effects the whole picture.
Two more things you might want to consider when refinancing:
- Paying a lower rate is great, but paying less mortgage interest reduces your tax deductions and could mean paying more in taxes, especially if no consumer debt is being refinanced into the new mortgage.
- With your parents excellent credit and low LTV scenario, and if they intend on staying in the home indefinitely, I would actually recommend that they refinance into a 15 year fixed. While it could actually raise their payments, a rate in the low 6's is still possible, they are more likely to maintain their current level of tax deduction, and they can pay off their home sooner, preferably before they retire.
I'd hurry though, because rates are starting to go up on all this good economic news.
 
so like if you have bad credit, youre pretty muched SOL for the rest of your life?

im 20 with some credit cards that need to be paid off. im not sure how f'ed my credit report is but i ordered it once before and it was alright and it had no notings of deliquency or anything. but i do have a credit card that is being collected upon from a collection agency.

please dont flame me as i lost a job and i cannot make the payments. what more do you want me to do? sell crack in order to make the payments? yeah yeah i know you shouldnt have gotten a credit card if you couldnt make the payments. i had a good job that planned to keep me on for a long long time. but some problems really got in the way of work.
but anyways, i really dont care how much of a dummy you guys think i am. im just wondering if ill be able to fix this within due time.

i plan to pay it all off within two months i owe about 1 grand thats all.

help me?
 
Nocturnal,

How many payments did you miss? You could'nt even swing the minimum payments?
Bad credit arises from missing payments or being late with them, so as long as you pay your
minimum you will avoid delinquincy... Most of the time miminum payments are a only a small fraction
of the balance so most people should be able to swing those payments...



<<That's a great rate, even on a 7/23 balloon. Points and fees appear fine, as it looks like they would be buying the rate down a little (which, excuse me, doesn't make a whole lot of sense on a balloon loan but I don't know the whole picture). Contrary to popular opinion, getting the lowest rate is not everything. If you have to buy down to get the rate, you have to look at how much it costs to get that rate versus how long you will keep the mortgage/stay in the home in order to recoup that initial cost. If the goal is to stay in the home indefinitely, then it usually makes the most sense to buy down and get the lowest rate. If the intention is to refinance or sell the home in the near future, then it is usually better to get a slightly higher rate and pay less in points/fees. In any case, with a 7/23 balloon, your parents will be refinancing in seven years, so you need to take a look at how that effects the whole picture.
Two more things you might want to consider when refinancing:
- Paying a lower rate is great, but paying less mortgage interest reduces your tax deductions and could mean paying more in taxes, especially if no consumer debt is being refinanced into the new mortgage.
- With your parents excellent credit and low LTV scenario, and if they intend on staying in the home indefinitely, I would actually recommend that they refinance into a 15 year fixed. While it could actually raise their payments, a rate in the low 6's is still possible, they are more likely to maintain their current level of tax deduction, and they can pay off their home sooner, preferably before they retire.
I'd hurry though, because rates are starting to go up on all this good economic news.>>

PSYWVic

Just to be clear, I don;t know for sure if its an actual 7-year balloon. The way the loan works is that its 5 and 5/8 for the first 7 years, then it resets at the 7 year mark to whatever the market rate + 1/2% for a 30-year at the time and stays their for the 23 remaining years.

My parents situation is somewhat a little complex since they have a bunch of real estate rental property that is going to be paid off in the next 3-4 years. They really don't care what happens in 7 years because they will most likely pay the mortgage off in full when the seven years are up. The reason we are going with the 7 year "balloon" is that it is by far the cheapest way to finance a 30-year mortgage for the first 7 years.... They were also considering a 3/1 and 5/1 ARM's, but the 7 year was coming out cheaper than the 5-year and the 3-year was too short a time period.

FYI, I ran a comparison of the 7 year balloon with 8 different point/rate combinations and the 2 pt combo was the "cheapest" over a 7 year horizon. I just actually got off the phone with my mom and she is thinking of upsizing it to 160K of using the extra 10K to put towards a 2002 nissan maxima.


 


<< so like if you have bad credit, youre pretty muched SOL for the rest of your life?

im 20 with some credit cards that need to be paid off. im not sure how f'ed my credit report is but i ordered it once before and it was alright and it had no notings of deliquency or anything. but i do have a credit card that is being collected upon from a collection agency.

please dont flame me as i lost a job and i cannot make the payments. what more do you want me to do? sell crack in order to make the payments? yeah yeah i know you shouldnt have gotten a credit card if you couldnt make the payments. i had a good job that planned to keep me on for a long long time. but some problems really got in the way of work.
but anyways, i really dont care how much of a dummy you guys think i am. im just wondering if ill be able to fix this within due time.

i plan to pay it all off within two months i owe about 1 grand thats all.

help me? >>




OK first of on that collection DO NOT DEAL WITH THE COLLECTION COMPANY!

Pay directly to the lender (i.e. company that issued the card)

the thing to remember when you get behind is to communicate with whom you owe money

Once it is paid off. wait a few months, then you can dispute it.

you have about a fifty fifty of getting it removed.

some good reads



Electronic Credit Repair KitTM

Clark's Cliff Notes: Money
 
<<If the open credit availible to you EXCEEDS your ability to pay were it all charged up, this WILL have a negative affect on your credit.>>

It might have an effect on whether a specific lender decides to give you a loan, but the credit reporting agencies have no idea of what amount it takes to exceed your ability to pay.

In other words, they just keep the info, they have no idea how much you make, or are able to pay.

Also, inquiries definitely bring your beacon score down. For the person that had 36 inquiries, you know all those "pre-approved" credit applications that you get every month? Each and every one of those represents an unsolicited inquiry on your credit.
There's a website or number somewhere that you can supposedly get off the list that causes you to get those inquiries, but I can't remember what it is. I've seen it here before, though. I'm sure somebody here knows.
 
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