Crash pilot who paused to pray is convicted and sent to jail

[rudder]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Ok let me explain the fuel thing for those of you who haven't read up on this case.

There are two planes made by the same company that have very similar looking fuel gauges. Some mechanic screwed up and placed the wrong fuel gauge in this plane.

So the pilot gets in the plane and looks at the fuel gauge and it looks to have the correct amount of fuel for the trip. And then some time during the trip the engines shut off.

The idea that the pilot is going to get out of the plane and manually check the fuel in the plane is idiotic.

Fuel gauges are only required to be accurate when they are empty. Do you want to know how pilots make sure they have enough fuel?

When then get in an airplane they look at the what the previous flight landed with. They look at the flight plan to see how much fuel they will need. They may or may not be already fueled. Usually not since you don't want too much fuel (weight restrictions). You then get a paper from the fuelers showing how much they pumped in the plane. You factor temperature and convert the number of gallons they gave you to pounds. You then verify that the fuel gauges read what they are supposed to read. In my case we had to be within 1,500 pounds (Boeing 727) or we had to figure out why there was a discrepancy. And in a 727 1,500 pounds is not a lot.... maybe about 12 minutes of fuel at low altitude.

Of course this is a different country under different regulations. But we were required to do this before every flight. As a flight instructor that is one of the first things I teach... never trust the fuel gauge.

And you missed my point. There should have been some maintenance notification that the fuel gauge was swapped out (different country who knows). That would have warranted a closer look at the gauges.

I am not saying the mechanics are without fault, but accidents are never caused by just one thing.. it is usually multiple things piling up that make a catastrophe.

Now going back to the original topic... yes 10 years for praying is too harsh. LIke I said in an earlier reply. If these pilots were in the U.S. the airline would be paying millions to the families... maybe they have different laws and the only satisfactory outcome to the families and survivors is that the pilots go to jail. Even with cases of clear pilot error this is not the case in the U.S.

 

[theeedude]

I wonder if the reason he didn't have enough fuel is that he was praying during takeoff checklist too and forgot to check the fuel

 

[PokerGuy]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
if the pilot did as much as he could and then said, at the last second 'god help us, we're going in,' then it is ridiculous to convict the pilot of any wrongdoing.

if the pilot did not do as much as he could, then decided to start praying, then the pilot did something wrong.

:thumbsup:

The video by itself is meaningless. I'm guessing the pilot did not get convicted because he "paused to pray", since the video disproves that idea.

 

[cultgag]

If they really did convict the guy just based on prayer then I'm glad I don't live in that country.

 

[BigDH01]

Originally posted by: rudder

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Ok let me explain the fuel thing for those of you who haven't read up on this case.

There are two planes made by the same company that have very similar looking fuel gauges. Some mechanic screwed up and placed the wrong fuel gauge in this plane.

So the pilot gets in the plane and looks at the fuel gauge and it looks to have the correct amount of fuel for the trip. And then some time during the trip the engines shut off.

The idea that the pilot is going to get out of the plane and manually check the fuel in the plane is idiotic.

Fuel gauges are only required to be accurate when they are empty. Do you want to know how pilots make sure they have enough fuel?

When then get in an airplane they look at the what the previous flight landed with. They look at the flight plan to see how much fuel they will need. They may or may not be already fueled. Usually not since you don't want too much fuel (weight restrictions). You then get a paper from the fuelers showing how much they pumped in the plane. You factor temperature and convert the number of gallons they gave you to pounds. You then verify that the fuel gauges read what they are supposed to read. In my case we had to be within 1,500 pounds (Boeing 727) or we had to figure out why there was a discrepancy. And in a 727 1,500 pounds is not a lot.... maybe about 12 minutes of fuel at low altitude.

Of course this is a different country under different regulations. But we were required to do this before every flight. As a flight instructor that is one of the first things I teach... never trust the fuel gauge.

And you missed my point. There should have been some maintenance notification that the fuel gauge was swapped out (different country who knows). That would have warranted a closer look at the gauges.

I am not saying the mechanics are without fault, but accidents are never caused by just one thing.. it is usually multiple things piling up that make a catastrophe.

Now going back to the original topic... yes 10 years for praying is too harsh. LIke I said in an earlier reply. If these pilots were in the U.S. the airline would be paying millions to the families... maybe they have different laws and the only satisfactory outcome to the families and survivors is that the pilots go to jail. Even with cases of clear pilot error this is not the case in the U.S.

I've only flown Cessnas, but the first thing my instructor did with me was go over a pre-flight checklist which included manually inspecting the gas tanks to ensure they were filled as well as a check of the quality of the gasoline. Of course, this is much easier on a 172 than a 727.

 

[AreaCode707]

Based on your OP, it sounds like they were convicted for their decision to ditch rather than land more than they were convicted for praying.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: AreaCode707
Based on your OP, it sounds like they were convicted for their decision to ditch rather than land more than they were convicted for praying.

I don't think they had an option.

They ran out of fuel something like 19 miles from shore.

But we would need more info to be 100% certain on that.

 

[TheSlamma]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Please do NOT comment until you have heard the tape!!!!!
Those of you you who have not heard the tape have NO IDEA what you are saying.

The tape is 5 minutes long the 'praying' lasts a few seconds as most.

Eh.. you are just a thumper, admit it

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Well the fact that it was "praying" shouldnt matter. If he stopped to play a game of cards, take a long dump, or a nap....it is all the same. And all of it should be punished.

and what Rudder said. Its the Pilots job to check logs and do their job.

/Thread

 

[Deleted member 4644]

ProfJohn for once I agree with you.

 

[wwswimming]

Originally posted by: AyashiKaibutsu
Reminds me in a vague way of the parents who will pray for their kids to get better rather than taking them to a doctor (can't listen to the video at work).

cliffs

guy prays.
plane crashes.

i didn't watch it either.

 

[Perknose]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: AreaCode707
Based on your OP, it sounds like they were convicted for their decision to ditch rather than land more than they were convicted for praying.

I don't think they had an option.

Then maybe you should have done some BASIC RESEARCH and gotten your facts straight first, troll.

The judges accepted the prosecution case that the pilots, instead of making a crash landing on the sea, should have been able to glide the plane to Palermo airport. Instead, Gharby was said to have panicked.

Instead, YOU want to make this about praying. Dishonest trolls like you disgust me. :|

The sentences were NOT ABOUT HIS PRAYING, TROLL:

The co-pilot, Ali Kebaier, also received a 10-year sentence. Tuninter's director-general, Moncef Zouari, and the company's technical director were both given nine years.

A mechanic and two executives in the airline's maintenance department each received eight-year sentences. Two of the accused were acquitted. The remaining seven defendants, who were not in court to hear the verdict, will not have to go to prison until the appeals process has been exhausted.

 

[I Saw OJ]

Originally posted by: Oceandevi
They got scapegoated.

Bingo

Airline needed someone to blame for this.

Besides, the prayer argument is bullshit, he was just saying god help us while he was trying to figure out the best thing to do. Its not like he busted out a prayer rug and got on his knees to face mecca during this whole thing.

 

[Perknose]

Originally posted by: I Saw OJ

Originally posted by: Oceandevi
They got scapegoated.

Bingo

Airline needed someone to blame for this.

Why don't you people fucking well inform yourselves before posting?

The co-pilot, Ali Kebaier, also received a 10-year sentence. Tuninter's director-general, Moncef Zouari, and the company's technical director were both given nine years.

A mechanic and two executives in the airline's maintenance department each received eight-year sentences.

Originally posted by: I Saw OJ
Besides, the prayer argument is bullshit, he was just saying god help us while he was trying to figure out the best thing to do. Its not like he busted out a prayer rug and got on his knees to face mecca during this whole thing.

Really, why don't you?

The judges accepted the prosecution case that the pilots, instead of making a crash landing on the sea, should have been able to glide the plane to Palermo airport. Instead, Gharby was said to have panicked.

 

[sapiens74]

My ex gf brought home a Stray dog after her tour in Iraq. It would wake me up every morning at 5am howling toward Mecca


That should be illegal....

 

[Double Trouble]

Perk, you have a lot of anger in you man Let it out... breathe in, breathe out

I agree with you though, the conviction had nothing to do with the prayer.

 

[Infohawk]

I would prefer Captain Sully.

Anyway, just like OP-clown says we should wait to hear the tape to comment (i listened) I think he should STFU until he knows everything the authorities do...

 

[ericlp]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Very interesting story. Plane runs out of fuel and crashes. The pilots are convicted of a crime for praying instead of following emergency procedures.

Read the story then click the link and listen to the black box recording.

PALERMO (Reuters) ? A Tunisian pilot who paused to pray instead of taking emergency measures before crash-landing his plane, killing 16 people, has been sentenced to 10 years in jail by an Italian court along with his co-pilot.
The 2005 crash at sea off Sicily left survivors swimming for their lives, some clinging to a piece of the fuselage that remained floating after the ATR turbo-prop aircraft splintered upon impact.
A fuel-gauge malfunction was partly to blame but prosecutors also said the pilot succumbed to panic, praying out loud instead of following emergency procedures and then opting to crash-land the plane instead trying to reach a nearby airport.
Another five employees of Tuninter, a subsidiary of Tunisair, were sentenced to between eight and nine years in jail by the court, in a verdict handed down Monday.
The seven accused, who were not in court, will not spend time in jail until the appeals process has been exhausted.

Black box recording via youtube
link

I find a hard time finding the 'crime' in what these guys did.
Please do NOT comment until you have heard the tape!!!!!

Yup... All religious pilots should be locked up and fired immediately. Sorry but god doesn't keep the airplane flying ... It's the air speed and the wind going over the wings to cause lift. It's science.

PJ is afraid we are gonna start sending people to jail over their religious beliefs. Maybe he thinks he will go to jail next. How ofter do your pray PJ?

Sheesh, Paranoid or is it your Schizophrenia showing though? Get a grip.