Crash Data Suggest Driver Error in Toyota Accidents

[darkswordsman17]

To me, the big issue was actually that Toyota supposedly was covering up a safety issue that they were aware of. This makes it seem that, really they were just aware of a couple of issues that did not seem to actually have any real safety implications. Their coverup seemingly was actually to protect the drivers, as they had to know what the data was showing. I have a feeling that if they had told insurance companies that the driver was at fault, there would be some big problems.

 

[Colt45]

derp. like the mom in the audi that mangled the gas pedal & stopper while "pressing on the brake" and running over her kid.

 

[RiDE]

Audi all over again.

 

[shiner]

Kinda like this guy

somehow confused Reverse for Drive

Durrrrrrrrrrrrr

 

[spaceman]

twinkie filled blimpkin still has me LOOOOLLLin shiner

 

[shiner]

twinkie filled blimpkin still has me LOOOOLLLin shiner

I forgot about that thread....where'd it go?

 

[spaceman]

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2087830&highlight=blimpkin


:awe:

 

[shiner]

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2087830&highlight=blimpkin


:awe:

I just calls em likes I sees em

 

[Patranus]

So can Toyota sue the federal government for slander and causing their sales to fall?

Oh wait, the government decides who can sue them. I guess not.

 

[Kelvrick]

Kinda like this guy

somehow confused Reverse for Drive

Durrrrrrrrrrrrr

Reminds me of the topgear episode about the track cars and May's mercedes with the gates in "race" mode.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Some new twists to the story, NHTSA says Toyota planted the story in the WSJ and that they didn't even contact them (the WSJ). Basically it just sounds like NHTSA is pissed that Toyota went behind its back and did this. The thing I can't even figure out though is NHTSA's response, as they said:

"It is [the] Toyota PR machine. We knew they were going to put it out."

What exactly is their problem then? Did they tell Toyota not to do it? Are they just mad because they haven't officially finished testing? The WSJ article even made this last point, and didn't even make NHTSA look bad.

Unless the WSJ was edited and not noted, the article clearly states everything that NHTSA is saying now, such as:

A NHTSA spokeswoman declined to comment on the findings, which haven't been released by the agency.

The NHTSA spokeswoman said the agency wouldn't comment on its Toyota probe until a broader study is completed in conjunction with NASA, which is expected to take months.

The WSJ article's source:

people familiar with the findings said.

WTF, Toyota's response (update 3 on Autoblog link):

UPDATE 3: We've asked Toyota's National Manager for Environmental, Quality, and Safety Communications, John Hanson, if NHTSA has been supplying information to Toyota on its investigation. His response: "It's been a one-way valve [to NHTSA]. We've been supplying information and sending it to NHTSA. We are not aware of any study. We are not aware of any report. We've been compiling our own field reports on unintended acceleration and as we investigate them, we send them to NHTSA. The WSJ report was news to us."

http://www.just-auto.com/news/nhtsa_id105109.aspx
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/07/15/report-wsj-unintended-acceleration-story-planted-by-toyota/

 

[sdifox]

That guy got a lemon. His floor mat was an aftermarket part that stuck the pedal, his transmission would not engage to neutral AND his brakes apparently didn't even work. Poor guy.

Ever seen a dealership that loans out a car with non factory mats? I have not.

 

[mugs]

So can Toyota sue the federal government for slander and causing their sales to fall?

Oh wait, the government decides who can sue them. I guess not.

[citation needed]

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Yes, this officer was obviously so well trained that he allowed his brakes to fade, and failed to find Neutral despite owning a Lexus ES himself. He had two choices. Shift the transmission to the left or shift it to the right. 50/50 was Neutral. Failed. Almost all Lexus and higher end Toyotas have the same exact transmission gating as well.

And they are all electronic. and some will not do what you tell them to do because it might harm the transmission.
Let's not forget all the arm chair quaterbacks on the internet that can say without a doubt that they would be cool, calm and collective in an out of control car with their family in it. Though I'm sure most of those people wouldn't know what to do because mommy or daddy is the one driving the car.


I just find it amazing that so many toyota drivers just forgot how to drive all of a sudden. It's kind of like a mass memory loss thing like that TV show.

Oh, lets not forget that Toyota got to handle the data before giving it to the investigators. No reason to manipulate and alter data.

 

[MJinZ]

Evern seen a dealerships that loan out a car with non factory mats? I have not.

You must have been deprived as a child to have not seen a dealership with non-standard mats. I mean that is like totally the in thing to do.

 

[Patranus]

[citation needed]

Guess you haven't read up on the "Toyota hearings" on capital hill.
The US government killed Toyota sales based on NOTHING.

Toyota lost 3 billion in the US alone because some Senators had to huff and puff to make themselves look important.

 

[darkswordsman17]

And they are all electronic. and some will not do what you tell them to do because it might harm the transmission.
Let's not forget all the arm chair quaterbacks on the internet that can say without a doubt that they would be cool, calm and collective in an out of control car with their family in it. Though I'm sure most of those people wouldn't know what to do because mommy or daddy is the one driving the car.


I just find it amazing that so many toyota drivers just forgot how to drive all of a sudden. It's kind of like a mass memory loss thing like that TV show.

Oh, lets not forget that Toyota got to handle the data before giving it to the investigators. No reason to manipulate and alter data.

Its not all of a sudden. Not only that, but there were other companies that had unintended acceleration reports after the Toyota one come out (Chrysler did I know, and I believe there were some other companies). Even with the numbers right now, its a very small percentage (I think they claim 3,000 cases out of how many millions of vehicles sold over the last decade or more).

There's tons of stories of people running into buildings because they have a little brain lapse and don't put the car in park, press the gas instead of the brake, or whatever reason. That's not the car maker's fault. Hell, look at the lady at the end of the WSJ article, she gets offended and says its sexism or ageism, when they have camera footage that shows the brakes weren't applied until after she hit the building.

People aren't willing to admit they make stupid little mistakes like this. The problem is, because they're in control of a several thousand pound vehicle that can move very quickly, the little mistake often turns big really quickly.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Yes, this officer was obviously so well trained that he allowed his brakes to fade, and failed to find Neutral despite owning a Lexus ES himself. He had two choices. Shift the transmission to the left or shift it to the right. 50/50 was Neutral. Failed. Almost all Lexus and higher end Toyotas have the same exact transmission gating as well.

He also failed to know how to just cut the damn engine off. I know some of the newer pushbutton start cars are a little weird, but everyone should know that's all it takes to stop the car.

 

[MJinZ]

He also failed to know how to just cut the damn engine off. I know some of the newer pushbutton start cars are a little weird, but everyone should know that's all it takes to stop the car.

True, though I would not normally recommend someone to shut off their engine as it cuts power steering and possibly impairs hydraulic braking.

 

[mugs]

Guess you haven't read up on the "Toyota hearings" on capital hill.
The US government killed Toyota sales based on NOTHING.

Toyota lost 3 billion in the US alone because some Senators had to huff and puff to make themselves look important.

I guess you misunderstood me. You accused the government of slandering Toyota. I'm looking for an actual, specific instance of slander. Holding a hearing is not slander. Asking a question is not slander. Making a statement that is factually inaccurate and harmful is slander.

 

[Patranus]

I guess you misunderstood me. You accused the government of slandering Toyota. I'm looking for an actual, specific instance of slander. Holding a hearing is not slander. Asking a question is not slander. Making a statement that is factually inaccurate and harmful is slander.

So the government making inaccurate statements costing Toyota 3 billion dollars isn't slander?

 

[MJinZ]

I guess you misunderstood me. You accused the government of slandering Toyota. I'm looking for an actual, specific instance of slander. Holding a hearing is not slander. Asking a question is not slander. Making a statement that is factually inaccurate and harmful is slander.

Bad publicity is about the only thing the Media/Government can be blamed for.

Honestly, this is a very good thing. Toyotas will now get better instead of worse.

 

[Patranus]

Bad publicity is about the only thing the Media/Government can be blamed for.

Honestly, this is a very good thing. Toyotas will now get better instead of worse.

Get better instead of worse?

There was no "worse" in this case.

 

[mugs]

So the government making inaccurate statements costing Toyota 3 billion dollars isn't slander?

See now you have misrepresented what I said. I asked you to provide an example. You just keep repeating that the government made inaccurate statements. What inaccurate statements did the government make?

You'll probably be able to find some dumbass in the house of representatives talking out of his ass, but I doubt that would be enough to sue anyone other than that representative for slander. Find someone who would actually be speaking on behalf of the government or a government entity, like Obama, his press secretary or someone at the NHTSA

 

[MJinZ]

Get better instead of worse?

There was no "worse" in this case.

Uh, hell yeas. My 2009 Camry has had like a million things wrong with it. If I owned a 2007 (first model year), exponentially increase that along with failing transmissions and faulty engine ignition coils.

I'm also looking forward to my VVTi oil line leaking, which even though is supposedly some thicker rubber, they won't replace with the steel version (Lexus ES and 2010 + models) unless I pay a few hundred bucks.