Craig's Science topics #4: can a black hole be broken up?

[Craig234]

We all know the basics about black holes. Nothing gets out, not even light.

Is there any theoretical (not practical for people, of course) way a black hole could be broken up?

Any sort of explosion or energy that could somehow cause it to break up into multiple, smaller parts?

What if a smaller black hole were to intersect with an exploding supernova?

I'm guessing not. But how exciting if it were possible.

 

[TheELF]

Any sort of explosion or energy that could somehow cause it to break up into multiple, smaller parts?

Smaller parts,as in smaller black holes, is pretty unreasonable,a black hole is pretty much "just" highly compressed pure energy if it explodes it will explode all at once.
Either as a huge flash of energy that will dissipate or as a mini big bang creating new mass.

Only way I see is to create enough antimatter throw it "in" the black hole and see if it does go boom or not.

 

[cbrunny]

If by break off you mean, as an example, split in half so there are now two black holes each with half the mass of the whole.... The point would be moot.

The "smaller" black holes would still be black holes, and they'd collapse back into a whole hole immediately.

By extension, if the black hole were to explode into small chunks of matter, even at the atomic level, there would still be mass interacting with the masses of the other atoms via a gravitational pull, which would over time eventually result in another black hole. Unless the original hole was split so violently that the atoms were far enough apart from each other to not have their masses interact with each other given an infinite period of time. Given what we think we know about black holes, this seems pretty unlikely.

 

[Craig234]

If by break off you mean, as an example, split in half so there are now two black holes each with half the mass of the whole.... The point would be moot.

The "smaller" black holes would still be black holes, and they'd collapse back into a whole hole immediately.

By extension, if the black hole were to explode into small chunks of matter, even at the atomic level, there would still be mass interacting with the masses of the other atoms via a gravitational pull, which would over time eventually result in another black hole. Unless the original hole was split so violently that the atoms were far enough apart from each other to not have their masses interact with each other given an infinite period of time. Given what we think we know about black holes, this seems pretty unlikely.

I'm not thinking 'into two' as much as some dispersion - enough to where the parts dispersed are not longer a black hole, just some large amount of mass and/or energy that things can escape from, because it's smaller amounts - and that the explosion could be strong enough to get them separated enough not to go back together, but keep going away.

 

[Craig234]

Smaller parts,as in smaller black holes, is pretty unreasonable,a black hole is pretty much "just" highly compressed pure energy if it explodes it will explode all at once.
Either as a huge flash of energy that will dissipate or as a mini big bang creating new mass.

Only way I see is to create enough antimatter throw it "in" the black hole and see if it does go boom or not.

That is interesting - would putting a big amount of anti-matter in one have any explosive effect do we know?

 

[Paratus]

Black holes lose mass via Hawking radiation and will eventually explode. The smallest black holes, event horizons smaller than a proton, will explode in a few years. Solar mass and above will take multiple times the age of the universe.

None of that turns them into multiple black holes.

 

[PowerEngineer]

Signed in post about Hawking radiation too. Here's a link:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawking_radiation

 

[Craig234]

Wow, I'd never heard that. I've read there's a black hole at the middle of every galaxy - it seems like it must have some gravitational reason for that, though I'm not sure.

If the black hole will eventually explode, I wonder what the effect is on the galaxy it's in, for those black holes. And what matter might result from the explosion.

 

[SMOGZINN]

A black hole is not really a thing. It is just a really strong gravity well. The 'thing' that makes a black hole is the singularity at its center. We really know nothing at all about singularities because they are beyond even our ability to mathematical model. Best guess? No, nothing could break a singularity, as it is singular by definition.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Wow, I'd never heard that. I've read there's a black hole at the middle of every galaxy - it seems like it must have some gravitational reason for that, though I'm not sure.

If the black hole will eventually explode, I wonder what the effect is on the galaxy it's in, for those black holes. And what matter might result from the explosion.

There will be no effect on the galaxy when the black hole at it's center explodes because black holes of that size will last hundreds of trillions of years longer then the galaxy itself. All the atoms will have decayed to their composite parts, and those parts decayed to their parts long before the galactic black holes have died from Hawking Radiation. Those black holes will float in a sea of low energy photons, which they will gobble up until there is nothing left but the black holes, which will then slowly fade away until they too are gone and our universe has finally achieved homogeny. Or at least that is one theory.

 

[TheELF]

A black hole is not really a thing. It is just a really strong gravity well.

Yes it is.It is no different from any other star except for the fact that it's mass is so enormous that it forms a really strong gravity well.

No, nothing could break a singularity, as it is singular by definition.

Only the one that resulted in the big bang is singular by definition,because it contained everything that ever was is or will be, there would be nothing else with which to blow it up.
For any of the black holes that are around today there is enough matter outside of them to create enough energy to break them apart.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Yes it is.It is no different from any other star except for the fact that it's mass is so enormous that it forms a really strong gravity well.

The 'Black hole' part is just the point where escape velocity of the star's gravity is higher than the speed of light. It is not a thing. The thing is the singularity inside it. Asking if you can break a black hole is like asking if I can hit the horizon so hard it breaks.

Only the one that resulted in the big bang is singular by definition,because it contained everything that ever was is or will be, there would be nothing else with which to blow it up.
For any of the black holes that are around today there is enough matter outside of them to create enough energy to break them apart.

No. What is at the center of a black hole is a singularity. It became one when it's gravity became greater than the forces resisting it. At that point it started to collapse and never stopped. The star that formed the very first black hole is still collapsing, and will forever. That is what is wrong with the math. All the laws of physics, including time itself, is broken inside the event horizon. The star's mass has not changed but it's density is now infinite and is infinitely far away, without having moved.

 

[Gibsons]

The only thing I could come up with was if two black holes got close enough together, the tidal forces from one (or both) could pull the other (or both) apart, maybe briefly at some point before the singularities merged. The big problem is that singularities have zero (or nearly) volume, so there might not even be tidal forces.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

The only thing I could come up with was if two black holes got close enough together, the tidal forces from one (or both) could pull the other (or both) apart, maybe briefly at some point before the singularities merged. The big problem is that singularities have zero (or nearly) volume, so there might not even be tidal forces.

I think that last part is the most applicable for 'mental modeling'. Without a real volume a singularity cannot be pulled/morphed/whatever term, which in theory should mean it cannot be 'broken apart'. I'd guess the singularity would have to pass back through the mass/density barrier, at which point gravity wouldn't hold it together anymore, and it would just explode. I think two singularities passing near each other would simple slingshot/orbit/fall into each other depending on distances/masses. What would happen at the moments leading up to/at the event of the merger is up to speculation I guess. I'd bank on it looking like a cell split in reverse, the singularities squishing together with a 'surface tension' on each until they reform into a single singularity. I have no idea what that would even look like in a 1-dimensional object though (probably just maths exploding).