CPU selection for special use system

[spdfreak]

We built a couple of Haswell Pentium G3220 systems to run 4K TV monitors for the HD surveillance system we installed in a large processing plant. 60 5MP cameras (2560x1440). It was a shot in the dark and I missed badly... The client software which displays tiled cameras from 1 to 16 renders everything in software, so the dual video cards are only useful to output a 4K signal to the TV's.
The pictures look amazing but on anything over 4 cameras, it will start dropping frames. When I looked at cpu usage, 1 camera uses 25%, 4 cameras- 60%, 5 cameras-80%, 7 cameras 95% and anything more, 100%. They want to see 24 cameras at a time- 12 on each TV. So the little G3220 is maxed out all the time. I heard her crying in the server closet.
The software engineer for the company that makes the recording and client software says they have never tested using anything with these resolutions, but the software will use 1 core/thread per camera tile until it uses all available and then it starts sharing.
Question- will I be better off using a 4770 with 4 cores/8 threads or an AMD 8350 with 8 discrete cores?

 

[Boondox]

Does the software support HT? If not, then I would opt for the 8350.

 

[jumpncrash]

2670s, nothing to do about it

 

[Ajay]

We built a couple of Haswell Pentium G3220 systems to run 4K TV monitors for the HD surveillance system we installed in a large processing plant. 60 5MP cameras (2560x1440). It was a shot in the dark and I missed badly... The client software which displays tiled cameras from 1 to 16 renders everything in software, so the dual video cards are only useful to output a 4K signal to the TV's.
The pictures look amazing but on anything over 4 cameras, it will start dropping frames. When I looked at cpu usage, 1 camera uses 25%, 4 cameras- 60%, 5 cameras-80%, 7 cameras 95% and anything more, 100%. They want to see 24 cameras at a time- 12 on each TV. So the little G3220 is maxed out all the time. I heard her crying in the server closet.
The software engineer for the company that makes the recording and client software says they have never tested using anything with these resolutions, but the software will use 1 core/thread per camera tile until it uses all available and then it starts sharing.
Question- will I be better off using a 4770 with 4 cores/8 threads or an AMD 8350 with 8 discrete cores?

You are dropping frames @ 60% utilization 4 cameras and two cores. So you need probably 2 cores + HT (4 threads) to handle 4 cameras with no dropped frames. A 12 core Xeon w/HT would definitely handle the load; if you get lucky, maybe an 8 core Xeon w/HT would be enough. Basically, the point is that a consumer system doesn't have enough horsepower for what you are doing. So, yeah, you are in a bad place if you quoted a fixed price for this solution.

The only cheaper alternative is using two i7-4770 in consumer grade systems; each driving 12 cameras to each monitor - you will have allot more horse power to handle the 1.5 cameras per thread. I'm assuming that there aren't any other limitations. Good luck.

 

[Blue_Max]

The i7 4770 is a simple drop-in upgrade, where AMD is a whole board install and complete Windows rebuild.

Your sanity would benefit from the i7 route!

I'd try that with one to see if it's enough. If not, you may need to consider Intel 2011 6c/12t or Xeon server stuff that's even bigger.

Actually - AMD has some cheap server boards with very affordable Opteron chips that have up to 16 cores, etc!

 

[spdfreak]

The i7 4770 is a simple drop-in upgrade, where AMD is a whole board install and complete Windows rebuild.

Your sanity would benefit from the i7 route!

I'd try that with one to see if it's enough. If not, you may need to consider Intel 2011 6c/12t or Xeon server stuff that's even bigger.

Actually - AMD has some cheap server boards with very affordable Opteron chips that have up to 16 cores, etc!

Yeah, apparently we are the first to use the 4K TV's in a situation like this- at the customers request. We told them that this was uncharted territory so it's not fixed cost, but it's also not "cost is no object". It's a 60 HD camera job with 20TB of storage - they have spent some money... I'm going to try the i7 route and see. We can tile 8 and it is pretty good plus, they are only recording at 10fps so there is some lagginess already. In the future, I might go with AMD since the Opterons are so cheap. For the small 2TB NVR's I usually use 4 core FM2 systems but they are just being displayed on 1080p monitors.

 

[Ajay]

The i7 4770 is a simple drop-in upgrade, where AMD is a whole board install and complete Windows rebuild.

Your sanity would benefit from the i7 route!

I'd try that with one to see if it's enough. If not, you may need to consider Intel 2011 6c/12t or Xeon server stuff that's even bigger.

Actually - AMD has some cheap server boards with very affordable Opteron chips that have up to 16 cores, etc!

Good suggestion, I hadn't thought about going with Opteron's. I don't think a single i7 4770 will cut it, but as a ~$300 experiment, it might be worth it.

 

[schmuckley]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ASUSTeK-COM...162522321?pt=Motherboards&hash=item2331fd0ad1
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMD-Opteron...ing-/330974391568?pt=CPUs&hash=item4d0f9c6d10

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Opteron-8-C...G34-/360771871374?pt=CPUs&hash=item53ffade28e

Search for G34 motherboard and G34 CPU/processor.

You could go the 1366 route, too.

 

[ShintaiDK]

2x4770 or a single Xeon system with or without 2 CPUs.

Remember the Opterons are also very slow. You might simply exchange cores for IPC/frequency without a bonus.

 

[rtsurfer]

2x4770 or a single Xeon system with or without 2 CPUs.

Remember the Opterons are also very slow. You might simply exchange cores for IPC/frequency without a bonus.

They are not that bad


http://www.anandtech.com/show/6508/the-new-opteron-6300-finally-tested

 

[Blue_Max]

This is a good experiment on which is better for the job...

TONS of slower (Opteron) cores
vs.
fewer but faster cores (Xeon)

FIGHT!

 

[Puppies04]

It is a real shame there isnt a descrete GPU based solution to this. You are paying for so much processing power you really don't need.

 

[ehume]

OP - This is interesting. Please keep us updated on the solution(s) you choose, and how each works out.

 

[spdfreak]

IT is a real shame there isnt a descrete GPU based solution to this. You are paying for so much processing power you really don't need.

Right, I had hoped the client software would use the GPU's since we had to install 2 in each computer (1 for each 4K TV) but it is all software... In the future, we may just build 1 computer per TV. It really depends on how many cameras they want tiled at the same time. The client can tile as many as 16 cameras but even on a large 40in monitor, they are getting too small after 12.

I'm also wondering about the longevity of the components since the CPU will be running at 100% all the time. But they probably won't get hot since the closet is adjacent to a -40degF freezer.

 

[Markfw]

2 of these:http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819116934

On a dual socket motherboard, and you are home free.

 

[escrow4]

You could split it and get a 4930 too over dual Xeon's. Although dumping the heat may be a problem. Whoever put a G3220 in there in the first place should be fired though.

 

[Puppies04]

Right, I had hoped the client software would use the GPU's since we had to install 2 in each computer (1 for each 4K TV) but it is all software... In the future, we may just build 1 computer per TV. It really depends on how many cameras they want tiled at the same time. The client can tile as many as 16 cameras but even on a large 40in monitor, they are getting too small after 12.

I'm also wondering about the longevity of the components since the CPU will be running at 100% all the time. But they probably won't get hot since the closet is adjacent to a -40degF freezer.

They won't break running 100% all the time* all they will do is throttle if they get too warm. Make sure they have adequate airflow in that closet.


*By this I mean they shouldn't as intel allow for this kind of usage scenario in their testing. That said fitting a better cooler will potentially stop dust build up and throttling for longer than the standard cooler would.

 

[NTMBK]

Try out the i7-4771. It uses the same motherboard as the G3220, so you can just drop it in and minimise upgrade costs.

 

[spdfreak]

You could split it and get a 4930 too over dual Xeon's. Although dumping the heat may be a problem. Whoever put a G3220 in there in the first place should be fired though.

That would be me, and I don't think I will fire myself- yet... We had no starting point data on this project. I put a "disposable" chip in so we could see where we were and what we needed and I was assuming/hoping that the software was written to use the GPU. Even the software company wants the results when we finish since they have no data at these resolutions either.

At any rate, are there pros/cons to using this Xeon E3-1230V3 chip vs. the 4770 other than the slight speed difference?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819116906

 

[escrow4]

That would be me, and I don't think I will fire myself- yet... We had no starting point data on this project. I put a "disposable" chip in so we could see where we were and what we needed and I was assuming/hoping that the software was written to use the GPU. Even the software company wants the results when we finish since they have no data at these resolutions either.

At any rate, are there pros/cons to using this Xeon E3-1230V3 chip vs. the 4770 other than the slight speed difference?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819116906

The 4771 is 3.5GHz with an iGPU, the 4770 is 3.4GHz with an iGPU (blame Intel) and the Xeon is clocked the lowest with no iGPU.

 

[stinger608]

Dual Xeon socket 1366 L5639's in a EVGA SR-2 dual socket motherboard. Bingo, gives you 24 threads to run these at.

the SR-2 boards can usually be found for about $350 shipped and the Xeon L5639's can usually be found for $75 to $85 shipped each. For around $500 the problem is solved.

Terry Mathews has one here on the forums "for sale" area: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2352795&highlight=sr2

He is looking for a trade but that entire setup might be purchased as well.

 

[Zap]

I was assuming/hoping that the software was written to use the GPU.

Having GPU acceleration is a selling point so they'd (software guys) probably tell you if it was supported.

 

[sm625]

If a G3220 can handle 4 cameras then I bet you an i3 will handle 7, and an i7 will handle 16 cameras, perhaps even more. You should definitely try the i7 before thinking of moving to a more extreme solution. Hyperthreading works very well with cameras, especially if they use variable bit rate encoding, which they probably do. The loads are dynamic, so when you have a whole bunch of cameras they will never all require a full cpu core at the same time - unless all hell breaks loose and you have a bunch of action on every single camera all at once. But think about it... it is not very likely. Most cameras should be showing a static image, which should require almost 0 cpu power.

 

[spdfreak]

If a G3220 can handle 4 cameras then I bet you an i3 will handle 7, and an i7 will handle 16 cameras, perhaps even more. You should definitely try the i7 before thinking of moving to a more extreme solution. Hyperthreading works very well with cameras, especially if they use variable bit rate encoding, which they probably do. The loads are dynamic, so when you have a whole bunch of cameras they will never all require a full cpu core at the same time - unless all hell breaks loose and you have a bunch of action on every single camera all at once. But think about it... it is not very likely. Most cameras should be showing a static image, which should require almost 0 cpu power.

We are going to try the Xeon/i7 route first. You're right about the encoding and most of the cameras are set to a relatively low sensitivity so things like leaves blowing on a tree don't trigger an event recording. But, it is a busy processing plant so there is a lot of activity most of the time on a lot of the cameras. Lots of people walking around, etc. Worst case scenario is we build a couple more systems which is not a big deal.

 

[spdfreak]

Well, I installed Xeon 1240's (3.4GHz) in place of the G3220's and I think this will work... 1 Camera- 6%, 4- 17%, 9- 32%, 12- 45%, 16- 74%, 21- 93%, 24- 98%. Fairly linear depending on how much activity is being recorded. It is a little misleading since the turbo core is kicked in and running at 3.6GHz from 12 cameras up. 58deg C processor temp at 24 cameras (98%) with the ambient air temp at about 65def F. I'm a bit worried about temps when summer gets here and ambient temps are more in the mid 70's.