cpu plus gpu water cooling

[maddogmcgee]

I bought a 970 with a blower fan yesterday. Big mistake. I'm trying to get a return at the moment but am considering my options if I cannot. Do any water cooling kits exist than can deal with a CPU and GPU?

I currently have a 2500k at 4.5 and a gtx 970 but will be upgrading to Skylake in August/September.

If a water cooling kit that is not silly money (like most custom setups are) is available i'm thinking I may just buy one to resolve the problem. The problem at the moment is trying to find a kit that can do both as the same time, ie decent size radiator plus two blocks (or at least ability to add a second block). ANy suggestions would be very welcome.

 

[aigomorla]

Cheap water is like cheap Tequila...

You can only expect a headache after it, without any benefits.
Most AIO kits lack pumping power.

So unless your gonna piece it right for both gpu / cpu... stick with cpu only AIO's.

 

[maddogmcgee]

Tequila, sounds fun!

I guess I should be sensible and follow your advice. If I order an Arctic twin turbo 2 will it be enough for a mild overclock or would I need the three fan one for twice the price?

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Maybe I've been posting a bit too much lately, but I saw this and can't understand your problem there, maddogmcgee.

First, what sort of cooling do you have now? I don't think AigoMorla our water-cooling guru will protest when I say that there are enough good heatpipe-coolers comfortably effective for a 2500K.

I'm giving my system a periodic "shake-down" cruise. This is not the sig-rig, but its "almost twin" with a 2700K. With affinitized Linx, largest problem size and largest memory used, my average-of-cores maximum is about 76C. Prime95 and OCCT:CPU give limp-temps in the 60's C. Both the sig and twin 2700K are clocked to 4.7Ghz.

The rig has dual GTX 970s of the "Twin-Frozr" double-fan variety, and I wish I'd bought the reference-design blower assembly you chose.

But with the clock at 1,470 Mhz/7,500-memory and a 20mV bump in GPU voltage, 3DMark's Firestrike-Extreme bench test with 4xAA pegs its highest at 76C for the top/uppermost and hottest GPU.

What sort of case are you using? What sort of CPU cooler?

Aigo is completely right about this, while I wouldn't discourage you from spending the bucks for custom-water cooling. I just can't imagine that you really need it. It's not something you just want to "jump into" until you know what you need in hoses, fittings, full-cover water-blocks, radiator(s), pump(s) and reservoir.

Tell me more about your rig and I can give you some thoughts about it.

 

[YBS1]

http://www.swiftech.com/H220-X.aspx

There you go, you'd obviously have to supply the gpu block. They also have one just like it for dual 140mm fans.

 

[maddogmcgee]

Specs
Proc:Core i5 2500k @ 4.5
CPU Fan: hyper 212 plus (with random case fan I had lying around)
GPU: Galax 970 with blower fan!
Case: Antec p183
Mobo:Asrock p67 Extreme 4
HDD: 256GB Samsung 830 plus 4 TB of storage.
Ram: 8GB 1866mhz
PSU: 650 W Corsair
Sound Card: Xonar Essence STX Headphones: ATH-M50\'s Monitor: QX2710 @ 120hz

With a gigabyte 7870 I was golden, everything I had was value for money and the fan speeds of CPU and GPU were low during gaming etc. With the 970 I now have, as soon it it gets into games the one fan sounds like a mini jet engine, I need to put on headphones to deal with it. After spending 500 AUD on a video card, I don't really want to be restricted in this way. It was silly to buy it in the first place, no way in hell I would have got a 290x with a blower cooler.

Unless they are no better than haswell, I will be upgrading to a Skylake CPU soon. If they are anything like Haswell my future skylake CPU may need a better cooler to reach top clocks.

Option one: buy a Accelero twin turbo now for 85 AUD and deal with with the CPU at a later date if it proves to be a problem, maybe with a Noctua CPU cooler. The twin turbo is obviously not worth the money for the extra overclock I might get, but it will be a massive improvement for sound.

option two- Find a combined CPU and GPU water cooler for maybe 200ish and re-use when skylake comes out, ensuring I have a cooler im happy with come September.

option three?

From the sound of it if i'm looking to water cool on the cheap I will get a pump that can't keep up with a CPU and GPU and a reservoir that is to small to keep low temps at load? Would suck to have worse temps after spending more money.

@ YBS1. Thanks, that's what I was looking for originally but it looks hard to get outside the US.

@ bonzia. I have 4 case fans for a single GTX 970 and CPU, more than happy to deal with slightly higher temps for a reduction in sound.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Specs
Proc:Core i5 2500k @ 4.5
CPU Fan: hyper 212 plus (with random case fan I had lying around)
GPU: Galax 970 with blower fan!
Case: Antec p183
Mobo:Asrock p67 Extreme 4
HDD: 256GB Samsung 830 plus 4 TB of storage.
Ram: 8GB 1866mhz
PSU: 650 W Corsair
Sound Card: Xonar Essence STX Headphones: ATH-M50\'s Monitor: QX2710 @ 120hz

With a gigabyte 7870 I was golden, everything I had was value for money and the fan speeds of CPU and GPU were low during gaming etc. With the 970 I now have, as soon it it gets into games the one fan sounds like a mini jet engine, I need to put on headphones to deal with it. After spending 500 AUD on a video card, I don't really want to be restricted in this way. It was silly to buy it in the first place, no way in hell I would have got a 290x with a blower cooler.

Unless they are no better than haswell, I will be upgrading to a Skylake CPU soon. If they are anything like Haswell my future skylake CPU may need a better cooler to reach top clocks.

Option one: buy a Accelero twin turbo now for 85 AUD and deal with with the CPU at a later date if it proves to be a problem, maybe with a Noctua CPU cooler. The twin turbo is obviously not worth the money for the extra overclock I might get, but it will be a massive improvement for sound.

option two- Find a combined CPU and GPU water cooler for maybe 200ish and re-use when skylake comes out, ensuring I have a cooler im happy with come September.

option three?

From the sound of it if i'm looking to water cool on the cheap I will get a pump that can't keep up with a CPU and GPU and a reservoir that is to small to keep low temps at load? Would suck to have worse temps after spending more money.

@ YBS1. Thanks, that's what I was looking for originally but it looks hard to get outside the US.

@ bonzia. I have 4 case fans for a single GTX 970 and CPU, more than happy to deal with slightly higher temps for a reduction in sound.

Ok, maddog. I looked at that case. You remember the robot, Number 5 in the movie "Short Circuit?" "Need more input!"

Now that I see your contemplations about the near future, I can buy into it, because I may have to do the same darn thing: Pick a case for the "future," pick the right parts for a custom-water rig (if that's really your desire), test it in the chosen case with the 'ol Sandy Bridge, and then re-deploy with the new Broadwell, Skylake -- whatever.

So you'll have to decide whether you want to (a) keep the Antec case as-is, (b) do some modding -- and I could offer recommendations, (c) replace the case. But choosing that case or buying another would hinge on your prospective water-cooling choices if the ultimate goal is for a processor later than Sandy Bridge. You might not NEED to use water-cooling in the new rig, but I see your problem with the noisy GPU blower fan.

So a few things.

You need to get more intake air going into the the Antec for the 2500K. A Noctua cooler would be fine for that processor, but you can still do better, save space-in-the-case, and even pay a bit less if the better choice(s) are available Down Under. Also, the 212 plus cooler might still be fine for it, but I'd buy the $5 ThermalRight Accordion duct to place between cooler rear and case-exhaust fan. That could be worth 5C in temperatures, assuming you can increase intake airflow.

It may also be possible to replace the blower fan on the GTX 970 with one more quiet. I've seen new replacement fans for a Radeon card. But if you're even successful with that search, the fan's mounting holes must fit, it must be a quiet blower fan, and the right size for the card. Not my favorite option there.

My cards have the dual "Twin-Frozr" fans and blow air all over the case. Whisper-quiet at even 2,000 RPM, but the warm air for my 2x GTX 970's and possibly just thermal radiation increases the temperature of my EVGA ACX heatpipe cooler, or otherwise increases the temperature of its intake. I think that will be an easy fix, but a tedious one.

The problem we'd discussed on these cards per full-cover waterblocks: those for the GTX 970 cards cost about $120+ USD. It becomes an economic decision if the stock card(s) stay well-below 80C under their most severe load conditions -- FurMark or 3DMark stressing. You will only be able to use that waterblock on that card, so if you sell it, you'd likely offer it as a bundle. If not, keep the original parts handy in case redeployment means air-cooling; then for selling it, you'll have to find customers with GTX 970 cards, hoping to water-cool!

 

[maddogmcgee]

thanks for taking the time to make some suggestions bonzai.

I’m starting to see how water cooling would get expensive fast.
Cost of the water cooling setup
Plus new GPU block every time I upgrade -175ish AUD
Plus CPU blocks every upgrade
Plus not being able to sell the GPU (or at least it being very difficult) maybe 200 AUD
Plus maintenance as there are more bits to go wrong
Plus girlfriend would feel justified going on a shopping spree

Why would I need a blower fan for my GPU? Will the Accelero Twin Turbo 2 not fit the PCB? (given I’m fine with a slightly higher CPU temps for the moment and have the potential to upgrade the CPU cooler and/or case cooling ala accordion duct idea).
I know all the newer Accelero's backplates would force me to use the second PCIE slot which limits me significantly(might only run at 8x 2.0).

 

[BonzaiDuck]

thanks for taking the time to make some suggestions bonzai.

I’m starting to see how water cooling would get expensive fast.
Cost of the water cooling setup
Plus new GPU block every time I upgrade -175ish AUD
Plus CPU blocks every upgrade
Plus not being able to sell the GPU (or at least it being very difficult) maybe 200 AUD
Plus maintenance as there are more bits to go wrong
Plus girlfriend would feel justified going on a shopping spree

Why would I need a blower fan for my GPU? Will the Accelero Twin Turbo 2 not fit the PCB? (given I’m fine with a slightly higher CPU temps for the moment and have the potential to upgrade the CPU cooler and/or case cooling ala accordion duct idea).
I know all the newer Accelero's backplates would force me to use the second PCIE slot which limits me significantly(might only run at 8x 2.0).

The aftermarket GPU cooler (Accelero, etc.) might work for you if your GPU is covered in its compatibility list. I had a ThermalRight model for my NVidia 8800 GTS. I was able to build a duct-box for my CPU that also covered the GPU and TR cooler. I added an 80x15mm fan to the box, blowing directly on the cooler base and heatpipes. A beefier San-Ace exhaust fan drew air from under the CPU portion of the box -- cooling the VRM components -- and all the air intake of the GPU portion of the box. One design I tried really put a freeze on that GPU.

My suggestion about a replacement blower fan was meant to address your noise irritations.

If you water-cool the CPU, you shouldn't likely have to replace the waterblock each time you redeploy to a new processor and board. But if you intend to water-cool the GPU and do it "right," you'd want a full-cover water-block made specifically for that card. And as I said, ~$120+ USD, and the problem of a lifecycle.

Even so. Does the girlfriend get to look inside your computer? Could you keep the expenditure secret? And do the building of it without her knowledge?

Folks have been mildly urging me to jump to water-cooling. I will, but I want to choose the parts and the case to fit each other. I don't want to make mistakes, even as mistakes can be part of a learning process. So I keep fiddling with air-cooled "enhancements," which could still translate into some innovations with a water-cooled system.

Even so. I just finished part of a "shake-down cruise" on my 2700K. The LinX run was showing a prevailing four-core-average of about 74C, and the "package" and "maximum average" at 77. That's at 4.7 Ghz, maximum undrooped turbo voltage at ~ 1.38V. This would mean I could take the voltage a tad higher to exceed the consensually recommended "safe limit." But I think this clock speed will continue to do just fine.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

The Antec P183 reminds me of some NZXT cases I've seen around here, touted by many.

There were reasons from the outset that I picked the case (three of 'em) in the link below. They may be the same reasons some folks don't like the case. It even has a certain flat-black steel and plastic ugliness, but it definitely has good intake airflow potential:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119197&cm_re=HAF_922-_-11-119-197-_-Product

Without ready-made features, there are "things you can do" to various cases to improve on that.

Here's another one I've had my eye on, only good for 140mm fans but proven airflow potential:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...=Corsair_Vengeance_C70-_-11-139-015-_-Product


Hands-on case-modding is a pain in the keester. YOu have to remove all the components. There are nasty little metal shards and metal dust to keep under control. Especially, you need a "plan."

 

[thilanliyan]

I’m starting to see how water cooling would get expensive fast.
Cost of the water cooling setup
Plus new GPU block every time I upgrade -175ish AUD
Plus CPU blocks every upgrade
Plus not being able to sell the GPU (or at least it being very difficult) maybe 200 AUD

Not telling you to go either way, but if you used a universal block you could possibly keep the block for more than just one generation. I used a Maze 4 GPU block for 10 years on at least 5 different cards. Only thing I had to do really was worry about the VRAM and memory cooling, but it was still a LOT cheaper than buying full cover blocks every time. Same applies to a CPU block.

Why would you not be able to sell the card? Just keep your stock cooler stored and when it's time to sell, put it back on. That's what I've done every time.

Proper water cooling is by no means cheap, but at least in my case it was worth it. If you're looking for an uncomplicated and cheaper cooling solution however, stick to a closed loop cooler and/or air cooling.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Not telling you to go either way, but if you used a universal block you could possibly keep the block for more than just one generation. I used a Maze 4 GPU block for 10 years on at least 5 different cards. Only thing I had to do really was worry about the VRAM and memory cooling, but it was still a LOT cheaper than buying full cover blocks every time. Same applies to a CPU block.

Why would you not be able to sell the card? Just keep your stock cooler stored and when it's time to sell, put it back on. That's what I've done every time.

Proper water cooling is by no means cheap, but at least in my case it was worth it. If you're looking for an uncomplicated and cheaper cooling solution however, stick to a closed loop cooler and/or air cooling.

Actually, that may be a good point you have there.

I only remember the additional tedium of applying heatsinks to VRAM with the little peel-off thermal sticky-tape, when I replaced the stock cooling of an 8800 GTS with an aftermarket heatpipe cooler. One of them kept coming loose. The other option, to use an Arctic epoxy, defeats other priorities.

Even so, I finally took a closer look at my GTX 970 (MSI Gaming "Twin-Frozr" fans). The only item covered by the proprietary heatpipe cooler was the GPU itself. "Full cover" waterblocks would actually be an improvement over the stock solution for "coverage."

It's almost a paradox that you'd more likely want water-cooling for dual GPUs, but I fairly doubt that an AiO GPU cooler is a reasonable solution. A custom-water solution with universal blocks may well be.

With a single GPU, the investment decisions change both ways: You can certainly use an AiO aftermarket cooler; but with the newer Maxwell GPUs, the advantages seem less just because these GPUs generate less heat across the operational spectrum.

I'll offer my 2x GTX 970 SLI configuration as an example. I can push the power-limit to a full 110%, but it currently only needs at most 105%. I've been easily able to clock the core to 1,470Mhz and memory to 7,500 with a 20mV increase in voltage. So far, neither the latest FurMark nor 3DMark Firestrike Extreme push the load temperatures beyond the 76 to 78C limit, and gaming at most shows 63C for the upper (and hottest) card. The bottom card is 7 to 10C cooler at all times.

So one must ask if its worth it to squeeze an extra 10, 15, or 20C in cooling with a water solution of either kind, if it's going to cost you money and trouble. The closer you want the GPU to stay near its idle temperature, the more it will cost you, regardless of how the cost scales with temperature. If water-cooling hasn't become your "niche thing" already, this changes the threshold that might draw you into that niche. And if you have the top-end Titan cards, that would also change your perspective for more cooling investment.

In the OP's case, he'll be motivated by a noise problem with the blower fan on his single card. Now I'm thinking that an aftermarket AiO is the way to go with that.