CPU for new Audio Recording Comptuer

[Mongoo13]

1st Question) What does Dual/quad core mean. I have a loose Idea, it's like having 2 cpu right or if your dual core chip is 2.2ghz it can perform 2 tasks just as fast as it can perform 1 task unless the program is written for dual core processing correct?

2) For Multi track recording and running large gigibyte samples vsti's do I want to go with AMD or Intel?

3) I am not planing to overclock this chip and risk burn out, plus I don't know anything about overclocking and am not going to learn. I'm building this as a favor to a friend and he just wants this to work, he has no invested interest or frankly understanding of overclocking. He's Just not a computer person and I don't have time to trouble shoot it for him.

4)for a CPU we're looking at getting an entry-mid level chip. Somewhere around $200.

Was looking at the Intel Core 2 Duo E4500 (2.2ghz 65w allendale 2mb L2 catch) for $127, but I just pulled this from a entry level guide. What CPU would you recommend. Basicly looking for a good value chip.

5) What does front side bus and L2 catch do again. Higher is better I take it?

6) Chip will be working with 2 Gigs of ram yet to be decided, and Windows XP, not Vista

Thank you

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: Mongoo13
1st Question) What does Dual/quad core mean. I have a loose Idea, it's like having 2 cpu right or if your dual core chip is 2.2ghz it can perform 2 tasks just as fast as it can perform 1 task unless the program is written for dual core processing correct?

Yeah, a dual-core can either perform two single threaded apps at once, and not slow down, or it can do one multi-threaded app ~twice as fast.

4)for a CPU we're looking at getting an entry-mid level chip. Somewhere around $200.

Since you aren't gonna overclock, you want the processor with the fastest cores at stock speed, with the most cache, and with the highest FSB, for less than $200. That means you want the E6750, though for audio recording purposes, I'd recommend not using the stock heatsink, especially since he's likely gonna be using very low speed case fans.

 

[Viditor]

What software are you using?
Is your software multithreaded?
Your disk I/O will probably be more important than the CPU in this case...have you looked at a Raid 10 array?

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: Viditor
Your disk I/O will probably be more important than the CPU in this case...

Very, very true. I was gonna mention that in my post, but somehow forgot. Glad you mentioned it, since I didn't.

 

[Mongoo13]

No I don't know much about setting up a Raid Array. I have some sample libraries on my computer, on a couple of different hard drives (seagate baracudas) Just SATA II drives and it seems to work okay. I get some digital distortion sometimes, but I think that may have more to do with only having 1 gig of ram.

Anyways, unless a raid array is just pluging mutiple SATA II drives into a mother board with like 4-8 SATA I&II connectors, I don't know how to set that up. He's only going to be spending around $800 total (without monitor) and I'm going to set him up with 3 hardrives, two for samples (around 300gb each), and one for programs (200gb+). These are just rough ideas right now. What hard drives would you recommend? I don't know where there at with hard drive technology lately.

 

[Viditor]

Originally posted by: Mongoo13
No I don't know much about setting up a Raid Array. I have some sample libraries on my computer, on a couple of different hard drives (seagate baracudas) Just SATA II drives and it seems to work okay. I get some digital distortion sometimes, but I think that may have more to do with only having 1 gig of ram.

Anyways, unless a raid array is just pluging mutiple SATA II drives into a mother board with like 4-8 SATA I&II connectors, I don't know how to set that up. He's only going to be spending around $800 total (without monitor) and I'm going to set him up with 3 hardrives, two for samples (around 300gb each), and one for programs (200gb+). These are just rough ideas right now. What hard drives would you recommend? I don't know where there at with hard drive technology lately.

Most motherboards today include raid on them, and it's really pretty simple.

Raid 0 = Striped Array...this allows your to reads and writes to be split across 2 drives, thus increasing performance. Your total drive space is = the combined total of the 2 drives.

Raid 1 = Mirrored Array...this writes to 2 drives at the same time (mirror images) which means that if 1 drive fails, you just install another drive, repair the array, and you get your data back. This is for safety. Your total drive space is = the total of only 1 of the drives.

Raid 10 (also called Raid 0+1) = This is basically 2 Striped Arrays that are also Mirrored. It requires 4 drives. Your total drive space is = the combined total of 2 drives.

If you're going for low cost, I'd go with a striped array (Raid 0)...there is another type (Raid 5) that saves on drives, but for your app it wouldn't be practical. Raid 5 reads like a striped array, but writes like a normal drive.

In your case, take the 2 x 300 GB drives and create a Raid 0 with them...

 

[swing848]

$800 is not a lot to work with. Is this a completely new build or will you be taking hardware from an existing computer?

I suggest that you get the fastest CPU that you can afford for file creation, recreation or compression. Along with the CPU, the hard drives make a big difference. Again, however you do not have much of a budget. I have used several different brands of hard drives, right now Western Digital with a 16MB cache is probably a good choice, given your budget.

Raid will make a difference, however it is not needed if the rest of the system is fast and the components are high quality. High quality does not always mean high price. Start with a quality power suppy and motherboard. G.Skill has some good prices on RAM if you are looking for 2GB.

Take a look at www.newegg.com for some of the components. We can provide you with links, it is 5:20 a.m. here and past my bed time, so I am not posting links at this late hour.

 

[Mongoo13]

completely new Processor, 2 gig Ram, Hard drives (3 a total of about 800-900Gb SATA II), Motherboard, case, and Graphics (dirt cheap for 2 screen monitor only), DVD RW. for $800. He has a CRT keyboard & mouse for now. I'm thinking maybe more like $900ish to get a slightly better processor.

 

[Cerb]

Also, what hardware is being used to actually record audio? Putting together a $800 PC isn't much of a problem, but it would be handy to know what else is going in it...

 

[Mongoo13]

He's leaning towards a firewire control surface with preamps in it. like the Tascam FW-1884 or FW-1082. Something along those lines, probably not a pci card

 

[Cerb]

OK, that makes things a ton easier, but this will still be a long post, not entirely CPU-centric. For small numbers of channels, there are internal options, but I've had enough trouble with EMI using internal parts for outputs that I'd want to be very careful with inputs. OTOH, bring it 10' away, and you're good .

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://secure.newegg.com/NewVersion/Wishlist/PublicWishDetail.asp?WishListNumber=7660028&WishListTitle=AT+guy+audio+starting+config%3Cbr">https://secure.newegg.com/N......arting+config%3Cbr</a>

That's what I would start with. Take that config, add a Core 2 Duo E4x00 or E6x50, then your OS of choice (XP Pro, Vista Home premium, Vista Business), maybe tinker with storage, and go. That wish list is not going with all the cheapest stuff, and still offers near $300 to work with for CPU+OS. At $900 for the PC, a E6550 or E6750 should fit in. If not, a E4x00 of some variety definitely will.

The board is uATX with Firewire, but are you going to need more expansion than video? other boards are also probably good, that just looked like a decent well-rounded one. You can go a bit cheaper with AMD, but it looks like the budget is big enough to go Intel. There's no reason not to go with Intel, ATM, unless your budget is severely constrained, or you just want to spend as little as humanly possible.

That said, if you want to go AMD, I'd have to recommend my AM2 standby of the MSI K9NBPM2-FID, and then whatever CPU you feel comfortable spending on that it supports (up to X2 5200+). I've found it a sweet board for non-tweaking, non-gaming builds (the most tweaking it allows is RAM voltage and some basic PCI and PCI-e settings).

The case is nice, with a decent PSU. It'll be nice to work in, and should last a couple upgrade cycles. Don't skimp on the case & PSU. You aren't bombarded with recommendations for more expensive ones than you may want for no good reason. We folk here have had PSUs blow up on us, cases bend easily, be dust magnets, and take bits of flesh from poor design or QC. For grandma's box, a cheap PSU can do, but other than that, don't do it.

One option, for now, as well, would be to get a single decent-sized HDD (320-500GB), and get new ones as time goes by, rather than right now. They will always go down in price, and always increase in capacity.

Generally, for just recording, I doubt a fast CPU will really be needed. However, for editing, that might not be so true (depends on your patience), and I know it can be taxing when monitoring more than a couple channels (our modern computers are not really designed for realtime tasks). However, I honestly don't know how much it really matters. For all I know, single-core Athlon64s could be good enough for what you need...but I'd hate to say it is, and then find what you're using or are trying to do really taxes it.

Personally, I'd get either a E4500 or E6550, as they represent good performance for your dollars spent, without counting in overclocking.

 

[Mongoo13]

Some processors I am considering are

Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 Conroe 2.4GHz LGA 775 Processor Model BX80557E6600 - Retail $229

Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Kentsfield 2.4GHz LGA 775 Processor Model BX80562Q6600 - Retail $279

Intel Core 2 Duo E6750 Conroe 2.66GHz LGA 775 Processor Model BX80557E6750 - Retail $194 (I don't get why this is cheaper than the top one, it has more FSB & processing power, can anyone explain?)

Intel Core 2 Duo E6850 Conroe 3.0GHz LGA 775 Processor Model BX80557E6850 - Retail $289

As you can see I'm thinking to go with a slightly higher priced cpu than the original entery anandale of $127. Most of these seem to have faster FSB @ 1066mhz or 1333mhz plus higher L1 & L2 catch.

Please tell me your thoughts on these processors and I have a couple of questions.

1) Explain the difference between Allendale, Conroe, and Kentsfield cores are there pro's and con's to them?

2) How do FSB & L 1&2 catch effect performance. If I went with something that operates at 1066 or 1333 would I need to have the same in ram (is the cpu FSB comparable to Ram numbering?) and a mother board?

3) To gain the benefit of Dual or Quad processing, the software has to support it. Sonar does, do you know if Windows XP home, XP Pro do? not necessary, though if pro had it and home didn't that would make pro worth it probably.

Isn't quad worth investing it? Won't everything in software go that way in a year? Why go with quad now and why not to now? This is not likely to be an upgraded computer other than software, so what we go with is what we get pretty much.

 

[Mongoo13]

Cerb that video card looks great for our purposes except for one concern. Its 32 bit right? Would that mess anything up with working with software like photoshop? My friend I'm building this for is a photographer and wants to be able to work with his digital photo's and edit them as well. Would a 32 bit graphics card effect the color display in any way or is the 32bit having something more to do with gaming? This won't be a gaming computer, but it will be for audio recording programs and high quality editors such as photoshop. Just so I know too, what about video editors like premiere and vegas in case he wants to go that way sometime?

 

[Mongoo13]

geez I keep adding thoughts on here, but something to consider as I'm looking at the mother boards for LGA 775 is firewire. I need at least 2 firewire ports maybe more later but two min. Are there any downsides to installing a PCI card with 3 firewires if the mainboard doesn't have any ports? I would need a dead reliable firewire card that works 100% cause all of the external audio preamps and control surfaces hook up via firewire.

 

[JSt0rm]

I would recommend (and I know this isn't as fun) buying a dell 690/670 or hp xw8400/xw8200. if you go look at refurbished workstations you will find computers for around 800 you could never build. Could you game with these computers? no. but for doing real work they are on. I have always built my own computers but when looking for a work computer I went with a xw8400 with 2 gigs of ram 2x2.33 dul xeons with a 1333fsb for like $1000 with a 19inch monitor.

I know making music is play but the play should be making music not fixing issue and tweaking during your sessions. I actually take real audio work home and pound it out with one of these and a 002.

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: Mongoo13
Some processors I am considering are

Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 Conroe 2.4GHz LGA 775 Processor Model BX80557E6600 - Retail $229

Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Kentsfield 2.4GHz LGA 775 Processor Model BX80562Q6600 - Retail $279

Intel Core 2 Duo E6750 Conroe 2.66GHz LGA 775 Processor Model BX80557E6750 - Retail $194 (I don't get why this is cheaper than the top one, it has more FSB & processing power, can anyone explain?)

Intel Core 2 Duo E6850 Conroe 3.0GHz LGA 775 Processor Model BX80557E6850 - Retail $289

As you can see I'm thinking to go with a slightly higher priced cpu than the original entery anandale of $127. Most of these seem to have faster FSB @ 1066mhz or 1333mhz plus higher L1 & L2 catch.

Please tell me your thoughts on these processors and I have a couple of questions.

1) Explain the difference between Allendale, Conroe, and Kentsfield cores are there pro's and con's to them?

The pro's for the Allendale's are their price, and their overclockability. Since you won't be overclocking, really the Conroe's or Kentsfield's are better choices, especially since he has the money for them.

2) How do FSB & L 1&2 catch effect performance. If I went with something that operates at 1066 or 1333 would I need to have the same in ram (is the cpu FSB comparable to Ram numbering?) and a mother board?

Higher amounts of L2 cache, and higher speed FSB improves performance, at the same clock speed. Not all software benefits much, but the ones that do are the ones that he plans on using. And yes, you have to have RAM that can run at at least the same speed as the motherboard's FSB. That means you'll need at least PC4200 RAM for an E6600/Q6600, and at least PC5300 RAM for an E6550/E6750. I'd personally just buy PC6400 RAM, though, since it isn't much more expensive than either of the other two.

3) To gain the benefit of Dual or Quad processing, the software has to support it. Sonar does, do you know if Windows XP home, XP Pro do? not necessary, though if pro had it and home didn't that would make pro worth it probably.

Correct, you won't see a benefit with a dual-core or quad-core, if you're running single-threaded software. Both XP home and XP Pro support quad cores, though XP Pro supports two quad cores. XP home supports one processor, and XP pro supports two processors. Two years from now, if we have 16-core processors, XP home will support one of them, and XP pro will support two of them.

Isn't quad worth investing it? Won't everything in software go that way in a year? Why go with quad now and why not to now? This is not likely to be an upgraded computer other than software, so what we go with is what we get pretty much.

Well, things in the software industry have already started to become quad-core capable. For instance, Adobe Photoshop and Premier will use all four cores. Vegas I can't remember. But you're right, that's the future of software. For now, a fast dual-core is still a fast system, though.

The biggest problem with a quad-core is the heat. A Q6600 is actually two E6600's on the same chip. That means it's twice as hard to cool. If you went with a E6750 or E6850, they're much easier to keep cool, since they're only dual-cores. And if he's actually going to be recording music (you still haven't said), then I'd recommend getting one of the faster dual-cores, since he's gonna have to use low-flow, quiet case fans.

 

[swing848]

Originally posted by: Mongoo13

Explain the difference between Allendale, Conroe, and Kentsfield cores are there pro's and con's to them?

and

Would a 32 bit graphics card effect the color display in any way or is the 32bit having something more to do with gaming?

The primary differences between the CPUs are:

Allendale uses 2 cores, 1MB [E2xxx] or 2MB [E4xxx] of L2 RAM, and an 800MHz FSB
Conroe uses 2 cores, [with the exception of early E6300 and E6400] 4MB L2 RAM, and an 1066MHz FSB
Kentsfield uses 4 cores, 2x4MB L2 RAM, and an 1066MHz FSB

32 bit graphics card refers to the width of the data path [also called a memory interface], it is 32 bits wide. 32 bit is very small these days, my video card has a 256 bit data path, for example, however, for just audio creation 256 bit is not needed.

 

[Keysplayr]

Has your friend considered any PCI M-Audio products? Only because I have found Firewire to have a few ms of latency over the PCI bus. I am using a Delta-44 PCI card with external breakout i/o box. Oh yeah, I am using this in a Pentium 4 2.66/533 system.

This may not pertain to what your friend has in mind, so forget it if he is doing something totally different. I use it to record from my keyboard sound modules and analog voice/mic'd instruments.

What software is your guy gonna use to record? Steinburg? Cakewalk? Other? So we can look up minimum system requirements and such.

 

[Mongoo13]

Okay here's what I am thinking so far, with a little work on the hard drives yet maybe. How do you think this will all work together? Any comments suggestions concerns are welcome

Here's the link, but if it doesn't work look below https://secure.newegg.com/NewV.../TemporaryWishList.asp

Antec Sonata III Black 0.8mm cold rolled steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 500W Power Supply - Retail $100 after Mail rebate

GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3L LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail $95

GIGABYTE GV-NX72G512P1 GeForce 7200GS 128MB 32-bit GDDR2 PCI Express x16 SLI Supported Video Card - Retail $30

SYBA PCI to Firewire 1394a 3+1 ports controller card Model SD-NEC-4F - Retail $13, this may change someone was saying something about getting a Texes Instruments Chip Firewire card, so I have to look into that.

Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Kentsfield 2.4GHz LGA 775 Processor Model BX80562Q6600 - Retail $280, It's going in a an audio box, yeah it's twice as hot as the E6600 but I'm feeling like it would be a good investment since a lot of the software that is going to be used on this computer should take advantage of the quad core. What are some quiet cheap ways that I can keep it cool without voiding the warrenty? I seem to remember reading that using a different heatsink than the retail amd one on my last rig voided theirs.

Crucial Ballistix 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model BL2KIT12864AA804 - Retail $45 after mail rebate, Can you tell me that this is the way to go? In order to get the rebate it has to be purchased by the end of the day today. Encouragement one way or the other please.

Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD5000AAKS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM $104, this would be the Data Drive for Recording and storing raw photo's and other data, I'm confused on hard drives, but I'm leaning WD & Seagate. Anyone know if only seagate has the perpendicular recording or do the WD also? I've now heard it's good for audio recording and sample playback.

Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD3200AAKS 320GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM $80, this would be the C drive for programs and extra storage when needed.

Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST3500320AS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM $124, the VSTi Drive, for things like Ivory, East West Orchestra, Etc.

LITE-ON 20X DVD±R DVD Burner with 12X DVD-RAM write and LightScribe Technology Black E-IDE/ATAPI Model LH-20A1H-185 - OEM #31, I've seen all the entry guides say to go with a $23 samsung, but I think it would be nice to have the light scribe ability when desired, not that it would be an everyday thing.

Microsoft Windows XP Home With SP2B 1 Pack - OEM $90, If anyone knows where to get this cheaper please speak up, I'm already running a little over budget.

LINKSYS WUSB54G USB 1.1/2.0 Wireless-G Adapter - Retail $50, for internet, again, if you've seen this cheaper let me know.

So thats it. It all comes out to about $1,040 so far after mail in rebates. I've been considering ways to cut costs where I can. If you know a way to save on this let me know. I'll be looking for these on sale or adequate substitutes on Friday. Post some links if you can to electronics stores or what ever. I mainly shop at new egg so I don't know where else to look for prices.

Thanks for your input

 

[Dream Operator]

I do audio work on the PC as well. I mainly use Nuendo and Vegas. You are on the right track getting the quad core. Recording itself is not that CPU intensive, but plug-ins are. I remember when I went from single to dual core. I opened up Nuendo and brought up the CPU usage. I toggled multicore support on and off and watched the head room increase dramatically on projects I had been working on. I am now free to use more reverbs, more delays, I don't even think about how many eq's I use. I'm jealous of the c2q!!!

I was still quit limited w/ 1gb of ram. Playback issues left and right on projects that were loaded with tracks and plug-ins. Once I upgraded to 2gb, all playback issues were gone. He should be able to do pretty full projects with 2gb.

My main concern is that 7200 and the lack of an after market CPU cooler being mentioned. Unless the PC is going to be 20 ft. away, I would go for a silent GPU. Like the one below. Audio work and photoshop are not graphically intensive. I would not expect the card to get too hot, provided case air flow is good.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814127273

Stock CPU coolers are known to be rather noisy, and they are certainly not the coolest. I picked up the Tuniq Tower 120 CPU cooler. It has a 120mm fan that runs pretty quiet (some upgrade to an even more quiet fan. I may be doing that in future). One very cool feature is the external fan control. It takes one PCI slot (doesn't actually plug in, it's how you access the control). I keep it all the way down almost all of the time. Even during recording. I crank it once I start using plug-ins, or if I am rendering (rendering always maxes the CPU. At least mine, never tried the c2q. It should max that too, it will render a lot faster though!).

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16835154001

Is the wireless necessary? Could save $50 and go wired. Some motherboards have wi-fi in them. Maybe you could find one for less than $50 more than the price of the current mobo.

I have lightscribe. It's slow, 15-20min. per disc. It's worth it though. Clients love it. I might label one as Rough Mix xx/xx/xxxx before a session, that way they don't wait for it. Don't have to worry about a client coming back and telling me the CD label peeled off after they ejected the CD in their car and now the player is jammed!

Here's 2gb of Corsair DDR2-800 PC6400. I didn't do a detailed comparison, but it looks similar.
$32.99 after $35 MIR, shipped.

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/...ctCode=85025-31&ps=ho1

Switch to a 160gb for C:\, etc. 320gb seems huge for that, to me anyway. I have a 60gb partition for my audio c:\, it's plenty. Save few bucks anyway!

I have the Antec P-182SE, it has the same Tri-cool fan in the back. He will always want to keep that on the quietest of the three settings, unless rendering. Depending on temp.'s, he may not ever need to adjust it. I used to have the Sonata I. It was a good case, but hot. The III looks much better for air flow.

Good luck and happy building!