cpu cooling, 120mm radiator, or just stick with air?

walk2k

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Feb 11, 2006
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Hi so I'm building a new PC with probably 8700k, plan to overclock but nothing extreme (ie 4.8ghz maybe).

I have a case (Antec 300) with only 1x rear 120mm (or top 140mm).
Nowhere to put a 2x fan (240mm) radiator.
Not buying another case. I have 2 of these and they work fine, don't need another case...

Are the single fan 120mm water coolers worth it? Like Corsair H55/H60. Or should I just stick with ie CM 212 Evo and save the $30 and hassle?
 

UsandThem

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May 4, 2000
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The 212 EVO is decent, but I think it will struggle with a 8700k with a decent overclock. I don't use AIO coolers, but I can recommend the Noctua NH-U14S as a really good cooler for your needs. Pricey? Yes, but it is nice.

Here's an Anandtech review of the "slim coolers" which has the 212 EVO, NH-U14S, and several other models that might be helpful for your needs:

https://www.anandtech.com/show/11407/140-mm-slim-tower-cpu-cooler-roundup/8
 
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ao_ika_red

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The 212 EVO is decent, but I think it will struggle with a 8700k with a decent overclock. I don't use AIO coolers, but I can recommend the Noctua NH-U14S as a really good cooler for your needs. Pricey? Yes, but it is nice.

Here's an Anandtech review of the "slim coolers" which has the 212 EVO, NH-U14S, and several other models that might be helpful for your needs:

https://www.anandtech.com/show/11407/140-mm-slim-tower-cpu-cooler-roundup/8
A man of Noctua has spoken. I'm addicted to Noctua products thanks to this man. Well, I'm just using its F12 fan product right now as my puny Athlon doesn't need anything close to that gorgeous U12S.
 
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UsandThem

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A man of Noctua has spoken. I'm addicted to Noctua products thanks to this man. Well, I'm just using its F12 fan product right now as my puny Athlon doesn't need anything close to that gorgeous U12S.

My personal belief is if a person is willing to buy a Noctua cooler, and have it in hand, they will be hooked. Great quality and they have the easiest and secure mounting system out there. I've installed other coolers over the years (even a 212 EVO), and there is no comparison in my opinion. They cool great, are quiet, their quality control is 2nd to none, and their support team is really good at taking care of any problems.

I've had one 140mm fan (out of the various sized dozen or so I own) from them that developed a tick after I had owned it for 4 years. I sent them an email, they responded back in just a few hours, had me take a picture of the fan after I cut one of the blades, and they sent me a brand new one. I didn't even have to mail the defective one back. Another nice thing they do is give you a free updated mounting kit to support new sockets when they are released.

The biggest complaint about them over the years was their "ugly" brown fan color. But now that they offer different colors. it's a non-issue. I will fully accept that I am a Noctua fanboy, and I make no attempt to hide that. :)
 
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UsandThem

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I have Redux and iPPC, so no colour complaint here.

I actually have two 140mm Redux fans coming tomorrow from Amazon for my oldest son's computer, and they will actually be the first ones from that lineup I have bought. I have so many extra cables, noise adapters, etc from their regular lineup, I figured I'd just save the few bucks going with the Redux versions. The fan colors (or RGB lights) don't matter to me at all, but I understand how some people have their entire PC color coordinated, and it's important to them.
 

ao_ika_red

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Aug 11, 2016
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I actually have two 140mm Redux fans coming tomorrow from Amazon for my oldest son's computer, and they will actually be the first ones from that lineup I have bought.
It feels a bit rough compared to iPPC or beige fan and has less features (no stator guide vane, no blade and wall profile, and no accessory). Otherwise, it's still Noctua quality standard with SSO bearing, 6 years warranty, and deluxe box.

Or should I just stick with ie CM 212 Evo and save the $30 and hassle?
Stick with CM212EVO. Just get another EVGA FX fan and use it in push-pull configuration. And having decent thermal paste might help.
 
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walk2k

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Feb 11, 2006
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Thanks for replies. Was really just curious if the $50-60 120mm (single) water coolers are actually better than a $30-40 single tower air cooler. I don't see myself going extreme like the NH-D15 but something like the NH-D14S might fit the bill. I still say they are ugly :p but I don't have a window on my case, don't spend any time looking at it...
 

XavierMace

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Apr 20, 2013
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Are the single fan 120mm water coolers worth it? Like Corsair H55/H60. Or should I just stick with ie CM 212 Evo and save the $30 and hassle?

Unless you have a case that can fit a 120mm but not a tower cooler, no they aren't worth it. I say this as somebody who's owned a dozen AIO's.
 

Campy

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Jun 25, 2010
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Unless you have a case that can fit a 120mm but not a tower cooler, no they aren't worth it. I say this as somebody who's owned a dozen AIO's.

Yeah, I love AIOs too just not the single fan rad units. A great air cooler will always be better than a one fan AIO and cost a similar amount. Likewise a great air cooler is equal to or better than most double rads, and cheaper.
 

BonzaiDuck

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Yeah, I love AIOs too just not the single fan rad units. A great air cooler will always be better than a one fan AIO and cost a similar amount. Likewise a great air cooler is equal to or better than most double rads, and cheaper.
I think there are some caveats with that. A decent double fan 240 or 280 radiator AIO will outperform a Noctua D15 on the same test-bed by maybe 6C degrees; a TR LG Macho by 5C. I got the impression recently that a top-end AiO would be the Kraken X62 -- from which you might squeeze a few C more than you'd get with some other models.

For Walk2K, the OP, I agree that the CM Hyper 212 EVO may not allow for stunning OC results. How to compare his choice of i7-8700K against an i5-6600K? I say this because one illustrious colleague and member got his Skylake stable to 4.5 Ghz on a 212 EVO and called it a day.

The top-end tower coolers are big enough to provoke thoughtful choices of cases or careful measurement of the one you have. The TR LG Macho is more compact than the D15, and doesn't overhang forward RAM slots on a motherboard. It's more friendly to ducting, since you can buy a $10 amber-colored silly-rubber accordion duct to fit, thereby using the case exhaust fan as a CPU fan. You could then hang a 140mm fan on the front of the cooler for "push-pull." The Macho is also lighter than the D15 by some 90 grams, comparing cooler weight without any fan weight.

With my 6700K, as many here know through my constant crowing about it, I ordered a binned-delidded-CLU-relidded processor from Silicon Lottery, who will also delid a processor you send them and reinstall the IHS with CLU for $50. With the Skylake 6700K, I got a precisely-measured temperature reduction of 12C. That could give you a 7C advantage over a stock-retail processor and a dual-fan AiO, using a D15 or LG Macho.

There are definite options or alternatives to simply slapping on a water-block of an AiO to your processor . . .
 
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Campy

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A decent double fan 240 or 280 radiator AIO will outperform a Noctua D15 on the same test-bed by maybe 6C degrees; a TR LG Macho by 5C.

Are you sure about that? I've read reviews that suggest otherwise such as this one. The D15 seems to perform roughly the same as the X62 at the same noise level, and the D15 doesn't produce any pump noise like the X62 either. Also the D15 costs half of the X62.

There are still really good reasons to buy AIOs, like not having 1.5kg of metal and fans hanging from your motherboard, or immediately exhausting hot air, but I still think air coolers have them beat easily for price to performance.

Not trying to be argumentative by the way, just genuinely curious to learn if you have some good sources.
 

XavierMace

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Are you sure about that? I've read reviews that suggest otherwise such as this one. The D15 seems to perform roughly the same as the X62 at the same noise level, and the D15 doesn't produce any pump noise like the X62 either. Also the D15 costs half of the X62.

There are still really good reasons to buy AIOs, like not having 1.5kg of metal and fans hanging from your motherboard, or immediately exhausting hot air, but I still think air coolers have them beat easily for price to performance.

Not trying to be argumentative by the way, just genuinely curious to learn if you have some good sources.

LOL, good job on moving the goal posts there. For pure cooling capacity, I've yet to see a review that puts a stock D15 ahead of a stock X62. If you restrict the AIO to a completely arbitrary noise level, sure. I'll give you a classic tower is a better value as well.

I also have hard time taking anyone seriously when they mention pump noise as I've asked half a dozen different people if they could hear my pump on any of my AIO's without putting their ear on the case and the answer has always been no.
 

BonzaiDuck

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Are you sure about that? I've read reviews that suggest otherwise such as this one. The D15 seems to perform roughly the same as the X62 at the same noise level, and the D15 doesn't produce any pump noise like the X62 either. Also the D15 costs half of the X62.

There are still really good reasons to buy AIOs, like not having 1.5kg of metal and fans hanging from your motherboard, or immediately exhausting hot air, but I still think air coolers have them beat easily for price to performance.

Not trying to be argumentative by the way, just genuinely curious to learn if you have some good sources.

I usually look at a few extensive comparison reviews. You can infer a ranking for this or that cooler given the ranking of other coolers common between the reviews. Those results seem identical or consistent with what I described in my post. The D15 falls about 1C behind the Kraken. But the thermal power of the test bed, choice of fans and other factors will give variation in a rank-order of coolers. The review from which I drew the Centigrade differences in performance was probably a Bit-Tech review posted at Frosty-Tech. But whether it's a matter of 5C or 1C, the D15 and LG Macho come very close to the AiO's in performance.

I'll have to agree with XavierMace, though. As I said, airflow and fans will provide different absolute results and the gap between coolers will vary. A cooler that got my attention in these comparisons was the EKWB Predator 240, ranking 5C above the LG Macho and 6C above the D15. If I were doing the tests and writing the reviews, I'd throw noise considerations out of the equation just to measure cooling effectiveness. The builder can address noise as a separate problem, and for this reason, I never pick the fans that are supreme for their noiselessness.

The Kraken X62 -- somewhere, if I remember -- was more effective -- several degrees C cooler than the Predator. I wanted to make the case for other options -- delid and replacement of TIM in the CPU would give an air-cooled strategy a boost.

So it may be true that pump noise is probably not something to get your panties in a bunch about. Fans mounted to radiators can increase the noise over air-cooling depending on how the fans are mounted. You don't have to worry about a pump going dead on an air-cooler after 4 or 5 years, and you can always replace a fan quickly. But the right AIO or custom-water assembly is always going to win out over the air-cooler.
 
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Campy

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Jun 25, 2010
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LOL, good job on moving the goal posts there.

I don't really see what you mean. It was asserted that a decent 240 or 280 would outperform the D15 by 5+ degrees. I showed a source that indicates that it does not outperform it by that much, even on a 6700K @ 4.6GHz, and regardless of fan speed.

For pure cooling capacity, I've yet to see a review that puts a stock D15 ahead of a stock X62. If you restrict the AIO to a completely arbitrary noise level, sure.

If you even looked at the link i posted, you would see that the differences are small regardless of fan speed. I never said the D15 was ahead of the X62, my point was that for something that costs twice as much the difference seems to be quite small. I'm sure the X62 would be further ahead under a higher heat load or perhaps if the CPU was delidded.

I also have hard time taking anyone seriously when they mention pump noise as I've asked half a dozen different people if they could hear my pump on any of my AIO's without putting their ear on the case and the answer has always been no.

Just a small side note, but if you want to judge my opinion based on that go ahead.


As I said, airflow and fans will provide different absolute results and the gap between coolers will vary. A cooler that got my attention in these comparisons was the EKWB Predator 240, ranking 5C above the LG Macho and 6C above the D15. If I were doing the tests and writing the reviews, I'd throw noise considerations out of the equation just to measure cooling effectiveness. The builder can address noise as a separate problem, and for this reason, I never pick the fans that are supreme for their noiselessness.

Yes, airflow and fans are really important but ultimately it makes the most sense to test the coolers with the included fans at differing fan speed%. What do you mean by throwing noise considerations out the window? If that means running the included fans/pump at max RPM then sure I agree that's a good test to do. As they are AIO units I don't think it's relevant to start swapping out the fans though.

Anyway I agree with you that air is a good contender, I just disagreed about how much of a temp disadvantage an air cooler has to an AIO in many instances, and the case for air gets even better when taking price into consideration.
 

XavierMace

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Apr 20, 2013
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Yeah, I love AIOs too just not the single fan rad units. A great air cooler will always be better than a one fan AIO and cost a similar amount. Likewise a great air cooler is equal to or better than most double rads, and cheaper.

I never said the D15 was ahead of the X62, my point was that for something that costs twice as much the difference seems to be quite small. I'm sure the X62 would be further ahead under a higher heat load or perhaps if the CPU was delidded.

Yes, airflow and fans are really important but ultimately it makes the most sense to test the coolers with the included fans at differing fan speed%. What do you mean by throwing noise considerations out the window? If that means running the included fans/pump at max RPM then sure I agree that's a good test to do. As they are AIO units I don't think it's relevant to start swapping out the fans though.

Those two statements would seem to conflict with each other.
 

BonzaiDuck

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Jun 30, 2004
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. . . . .
Yes, airflow and fans are really important but ultimately it makes the most sense to test the coolers with the included fans at differing fan speed%. What do you mean by throwing noise considerations out the window? If that means running the included fans/pump at max RPM then sure I agree that's a good test to do. As they are AIO units I don't think it's relevant to start swapping out the fans though.

Chances are, given my obsession for just "building computers," I'm going to pick different fans for a cooler regardless of those bundled with it. They don't attend to acoustic modification of the overall system in those reviews as I do. I've constantly read assessments of forum members that radiator fans are noisy, and it only stands to reason that any contact between the hard surface of a fan and radiator metal will transmit vibration and therefore sound through the cooler.

This is not likely to be as noticeable unless one swaps in some fans with high static pressure and high airflow potential, even though that potential is either never realized, or not realized as often. You can isolate the hard surfaces with rubber fittings, and they may need to be "invented" or custom-made -- the sort of thing for which I'll take pains and others will not incline themselves. But inserting a radiator into the case-configuration arrangement changes the way of dealing with airflow.

Take for instance my CoolerMaster "Crossflow" barrel fan -- once a mark of distinction for the Stacker 830. The only way to use it requires the tiny sheet-metal screws bundled with the fan, and barring other considerations, it involves metal-to-metal contact possible over greater area of the surfaces than other fan installations. How do you build "shock absorbers" for such a fan? I found myself fiddling tediously with a fan that was already mounted in a "tight squeeze." Then I was testing the difference of "before and after" with a stethoscope. It was a lot of trouble, but it paid off in a considerable reduction in noise.

So for cooler-related fans, I'll want to blasts them past the point where CFM has passed a point of no difference for temperature reduction. I'll pick those fans carefully, but they will be real Blasters for CFM. I want to know what the cooler is capable of doing, and I'll realize that a great range of usage situations aren't going to spin those fans up to 100%. For instance, I've got two Nidec-Servo Gentle Typhoon AP-30 fans I use in two different computers that spin up to a top-end of 4,000 RPM with 145CFM. I'm fine for using them in the final rendition of the computer-build! So I'd want to get that information from a cooler-comparison review.

. . Anyway I agree with you that air is a good contender, I just disagreed about how much of a temp disadvantage an air cooler has to an AIO in many instances, and the case for air gets even better when taking price into consideration.

I'm always looking for "last grains of rice." So small differences are also important, if one doesn't have to expend tremendous attention and materials in the one-time investment of energy constructing the Whole. At some point-- you make compromises. I had my system "arranged" and prepared for a 280mm radiator assembly, and essentially that "arrangement" still exists, because the space for such an assembly is covered by two fans in an almost identical position. Since I'd chosen to use a certain ICY-DOCK "2x2.5"+ODD" 5.25" bay device and add laptop drives into a hot-swap mix of things, I didn't bother reclaiming the bays lost with those fans.

Ultimately -- you're right about the price factor. When you're dealing with small differences, a 30% to 50% difference in price matters. But XavierMace will tell you I have violated that precept in other ways -- just because I was curious, and didn't pursue some inferential logic to a fine-tuned hilt.

With the Silicon Lottery $50 delid and CLU preparation, I figured I'd conquered the system's main cooling problem enough that taking it further with water didn't matter much. Given the way I test these recent builds with AVX-enabled LinX or LinPack where others say "no more!" -- I think I could limit my testing to milder choices and clock this puppy to the 4.8 Ghz for which it was binned. I just don't like the voltage requirement for that. At the extreme, 1.424V is too much a difference over 1.40V. Otherwise, I'd be one of AigoMorla's biggest followers.
 

B-Riz

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