Court sets new rules for taser use

[jonks]

i'm fairly certain that for denial of a motion there is no appeal beyond the appellate court. the supreme court has very little appellate jurisdiction (maybe none). almost everything heard before the supreme court is certiorari, which is not an appeal (appeals are by right).

what about http://usgovinfo.about.com/gi/dynam...ttp://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/28/ch81.html

Cases in the courts of appeals may be reviewed by the Supreme Court by the following methods:
(1) By writ of certiorari granted upon the petition of any party to any civil or criminal case, before or after rendition of judgment or decree;


Correct, not an appeal, but review of the order appears possible, but very unlikely, which was my point. Certiorari is essentially appeal by leave, not right.

 

[Exterous]

I've read your posts, I like you - and I am not at all a 'cop hater'... But just because some kid at his first traffic stop opens up a door SHOULD not give a cop the 'right to use force'...

First off he said opening the door and walking towards me. (Reading comprehension ftl). By getting out of the car you have escalated the situation. By walking towards the cop (ie confronting them) you are raising the stakes even higher. This is a choice you have made to raise the stacks*

*Edit for clarification: I am using 'you' in a general sense to referr to the person getting out of the car

 

[Train]

was on a sportbike, cop ran tag with WRONG NUMBERS and came back stolen or a runner.. It took 10-15 minutes before they figured out THEY screwed up, and they literally were just like oh - wrong guy, got in their cruisers and left. No apology, no nothing)

OMG, they didnt even APOLOGIZE? Oh shit, file a fuckin lawsuit. I'm sure you've been suffering from years of DEEP emotional trauma from this horrendous incident.

Seriously, how's the therapy coming along?

 

[T9D]

....

 

[AreaCode707]

Ugh. What a horribly stereotypical attitude you have.

Seriously. As if all cops face the same life or death risk everyday on the job, pfffssshtt!

Police, if you lack the psychic ability to tell which traffic stop is going to be that life or death risk for the day and react to common indicators of risk in ways that protect yourself and others, well SpatiallyAware and I say, screw you!

 

[theflyingpig]

If you don't obey an officers orders, you deserve to be tased immediately. This country is filled with liberal idiots who think they don't have to follow the law, well, they need to be taught a lesson. Everyone knows this.

 

[theflyingpig]

Tasers should be considered deadly force, and used only in accordance with deadly force rules. Everywhere I go, I always see even a typical traffic stop involving 2 or more patrol cars responding, so unless someone starts spraying AK fire out of their back window, there's absolutely no need for this shit. Police don't have the right to be preemptive in their actions.

You should be a cop, SunnyD. You have the right mindset for doing the job correctly. Everyone knows this.

 

[waggy]

OMG, they didnt even APOLOGIZE? Oh shit, file a fuckin lawsuit. I'm sure you've been suffering from years of DEEP emotional trauma from this horrendous incident.

Seriously, how's the therapy coming along?

well to be fair yes they should have apologized. they effed up and while it not tramatic or huge. its still something they should apologize for.

 

[SphinxnihpS]

I don't carry a Taser either but I have taken the ride, damn things a bitch. At any rate if you get out of your car and start walking towards me when I have told you to stay in the car, your going to have a bad day. By statute we can order you to remain in the vehicle, if you don't I take it as a threat and will handle you accordingly. In this day in age you can't afford to give someone the benefit of the doubt, you have to assume the worse. I am going home at the end of my shift, period. Better to be tried by twelve than carried by six.

Piggy. Protect and server OTHER PEOPLE, not yourself. If you don't like a dangerous job, GTFO. Your cowardly attitude is exactly what is wrong with your "profession".

This goes for all you cops who piped up in here.

 

[theflyingpig]

Piggy. Protect and server OTHER PEOPLE, not yourself. If you don't like a dangerous job, GTFO. Your cowardly attitude is exactly what is wrong with your "profession".

This goes for all you cops who piped up in here.

You should be a cop too, SphinxnihpS. You also have the right mindset. Everyone knows this.

 

[jonks]

I don't see the need for all the hyperbole. There are some situations where a taser is useful and appropriate, and others where it is not. The line is not always clear. When detained one should follow lawful orders given by an officer, however, disobeying or questioning such an order while clearly not presenting any threat should not be responded to with overwhelming or unnecessary force. This is going to be a situtation specific determination in essentially every instance. I believe the police should be given the benefit of the doubt, but they are not immune from unreasonable error, and in such instances official review may be warranted.

If I were a cop and was faced with someone who refused to listen to my orders and continued to approach me in the face of my orders to keep their distance, who saw my taser aimed at them and ignored my repeated warnings, then I have no problem with zapping the guy, even if he's smiling and seemingly threat free.

In this case, that doesn't appear to be the case. The totality of circumstances is examined to determine appropriate response. I was glad to see the ruling because I think too many unjustified tasings have occured in the face of any resistance, even on children and the elderly, where there was no reason to suspect a threat and less forceful measures were both appropriate and available. Citizens should not be subjected to tasering on a whim or for mere passive disobediance.

 

[FoBoT]

 

[boomhower]

Piggy. Protect and server OTHER PEOPLE, not yourself. If you don't like a dangerous job, GTFO. Your cowardly attitude is exactly what is wrong with your "profession".

This goes for all you cops who piped up in here.

Your an idiot. I don't even know where to begin......

 

[AreaCode707]

Piggy. Protect and server OTHER PEOPLE, not yourself. If you don't like a dangerous job, GTFO. Your cowardly attitude is exactly what is wrong with your "profession".

This goes for all you cops who piped up in here.

To the police who participated in this thread, I'd like to apologize that you often get treated like this. Your willingness to lay your life on the line every day is appreciated by the majority.

 

[AreaCode707]

Piggy. Protect and server OTHER PEOPLE, not yourself. If you don't like a dangerous job, GTFO. Your cowardly attitude is exactly what is wrong with your "profession".

This goes for all you cops who piped up in here.

You, sir, are a despicable specimen of a human being and citizen (presuming).

To what do you object? To this?

At any rate if you get out of your car and start walking towards me when I have told you to stay in the car, your going to have a bad day.

You view that as power hungry? I view that as an officer, not prescient, taking reasonable steps to protect the safety of both himself AND others. Do you see him taking joy in the act of disabling someone? I see him regretting the action and only taking it as necessary when he perceives potential threat.

Or is it this you object to?

In this day in age you can't afford to give someone the benefit of the doubt, you have to assume the worse.

Born of experience and training, this is taught to officers because it is TRUE. Not following this principle is likely to get many more officers and civilians killed. If you don't want to raise alarm bells with the officer you are dealing with, then FOLLOW INSTRUCTIONS. Anything else and YOU have placed yourself in a position of being unpredictable and unknown to the officer, and unpredictable comes with threat more often than not.

The responsibility for your safety lies with YOU, not the officer, because the officer responds purely to your behavior.

I am going home at the end of my shift, period.

Do you call him coward for this? For intending to live through his daily work? Police volunteer to risk their lives, but it doesn't make them cowardly to hope and work to live. When they live through an encounter with a dangerous person, they protect the population. When they die, the population remains at risk. Signing up to be a police officer isn't signing your death warrant; they have every right to protect themselves. You don't have to appear the person they need to protect themselves from; that is YOUR choice.

 

[hanoverphist]

(short story - was on a sportbike, cop ran tag with WRONG NUMBERS and came back stolen or a runner.. It took 10-15 minutes before they figured out THEY screwed up, and they literally were just like oh - wrong guy, got in their cruisers and left. No apology, no nothing)

i was stopped by the popo one night (i worked graves, so my personal time was at nite) walking to the grocery store. apparently there was an assault in the area and the guy resembled me to a point. 3 cop cars surrounded me in a frys parking lot, they all drew weapons and asked me to lay face down on the asphalt. they then searched me, disarmed me (i had my knife and my 9mm on me) and asked me questions for 30 minutes. when they got a call that the real guy was apprehended, they walked my knife and gun about 50 yds away and placed it on a light pedestal and told me to behave. they then all left.

did that annoy me? yup, i had other things to get done. do i blame them? hell no, they had to make sure i wasnt the guy i resembled. did i expect an apology? nope. i did think it was funny they took my weapons so far away, like they expected me to attack 6 armed cops as soon as i had them back in my control.

 

[ktehmok]

i was stopped by the popo one night (i worked graves, so my personal time was at nite) walking to the grocery store. apparently there was an assault in the area and the guy resembled me to a point. 3 cop cars surrounded me in a frys parking lot, they all drew weapons and asked me to lay face down on the asphalt. they then searched me, disarmed me (i had my knife and my 9mm on me) and asked me questions for 30 minutes. when they got a call that the real guy was apprehended, they walked my knife and gun about 50 yds away and placed it on a light pedestal and told me to behave. they then all left.

did that annoy me? yup, i had other things to get done. do i blame them? hell no, they had to make sure i wasnt the guy i resembled. did i expect an apology? nope. i did think it was funny they took my weapons so far away, like they expected me to attack 6 armed cops as soon as i had them back in my control.

It would have been ironic and unfortunate if the guy they were looking for came running by and got your gun & knife before you could reach it. :/

 

[PrinceofWands]

I think it's an awesome ruling, and that's coming from someone that's had to deal with a lot of potentially dangerous people. A taser is NOT a tool of compliance, it's a tool of force. If you aren't allowed to beat someone severely for what they're actively doing you shouldn't be allowed to taser them for it. It's just that simple.

I (like everyone else) have the right to choose not to comply with police orders, and instead be jailed for obstruction or whatever other charge covers the situation. So long as I don't actively threaten anyone with harm, or actively resist arrest, NO ONE has the right to inflict the least harm upon me.

Any officer that does not understand this should turn in their badge immediately.

 

[dlx22]

the problem for police officers is that action beats reaction almost all the time when it comes to the use of force. an individual that is refusing to comply and has not yet been searched is extremely dangerous. i'm not sure what kind of taser the officer had but from 20ft+ away that is a hell of a shot considering how fast the probes spread.

 

[Train]

I think it's an awesome ruling, and that's coming from someone that's had to deal with a lot of potentially dangerous people. A taser is NOT a tool of compliance, it's a tool of force. If you aren't allowed to beat someone severely for what they're actively doing you shouldn't be allowed to taser them for it. It's just that simple.

I (like everyone else) have the right to choose not to comply with police orders, and instead be jailed for obstruction or whatever other charge covers the situation. So long as I don't actively threaten anyone with harm, or actively resist arrest, NO ONE has the right to inflict the least harm upon me.

Any officer that does not understand this should turn in their badge immediately.

And how the hell do you expect to get arrested if you arent following orders? At the very least your going to get your face put into the ground fairly forcibly, followed by a knee and the full weight of the officer on your back..

Sounds like you havent thought this through very well.

 

[dlx22]

i think he is talking about passive resistance, in which case there is always oc/pepper spray.

 

[PrinceofWands]

And how do you expect to get arrested if you arent following orders?

Sounds like you havent thought this through very well.

Actually I've not only thought it through I've been a part of it more than once.

NO person is required to assist in their own arrest. You just can't actively resist. Ever seen a protest where the people all just lay down and stay limp?

 

[PrinceofWands]

i think he is talking about passive resistance, in which case there is always oc/pepper spray.

Which should also be banned in such instances, since no threat is being presented. Force is not a tool of compliance for government agents. It is only a response to force.

It is a check/balance on government to allow citizens to protest without active resistance in order to force the government to deal with the situation. When you allow force of compliance you remove that tool, removing empowerment from the citizenry. The obvious eventual result of that must be violence against the government and its agents. In other words, if you use force when it isn't warranted, you can EXPECT to face force yourself.

I've had to arrest people for it, and it's a pain in the butt to wrangle a 180lb limp man into cuffs and drag him into a car...but that's the price we pay for being empowered to protect others. And that's just as a security officer. A law enforcement officer should have even greater responsibility to protect the rights of citizens, since they're also given a greater power to abuse them. I would NEVER have used my weapons (gun, taser, oc, baton) unless violence was already imminent.

 

[SirStev0]

Actually I've not only thought it through I've been a part of it more than once.

NO person is required to assist in their own arrest. You just can't actively resist. Ever seen a protest where the people all just lay down and stay limp?

Dude if you expect him to sympathize or connect with any sort of protester that isn't holding teabags you are barking up the wrong tree.

 

[AreaCode707]

I (like everyone else) have the right to choose not to comply with police orders, and instead be jailed for obstruction or whatever other charge covers the situation. So long as I don't actively threaten anyone with harm, or actively resist arrest, NO ONE has the right to inflict the least harm upon me.

Any officer that does not understand this should turn in their badge immediately.

If you choose not to comply you need to do so understanding that the officer has no way to discern whether or not you pose a threat to him and others around you, and he is right to react as though you are dangerous.