Court: No habeas rights for prisoners in Afghanistan

sciwizam

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Oct 22, 2004
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Court: No habeas rights for prisoners in Afghanistan

Obama wins what Bush sought: the right to hold suspects without judicial oversight at the Bagram air base.


Reporting from Washington — — The Obama administration has won the legal right to hold its terrorism suspects indefinitely and without oversight by judges — not at Guantanamo or in Illinois, but rather at the Bagram air base in Afghanistan.


In a 3-0 decision, the U.S. appeals court in Washington ruled for the administration Friday and said the Constitution and its right to habeas corpus does not extend to foreign prisoners held by the U.S. military in Afghanistan because it is a war zone. The judges dismissed claims from three prisoners who were taken to Bagram from Pakistan and Thailand and have been held for as long as seven years.


"It is undisputed that Bagram, indeed the entire nation of Afghanistan, remains a theater of war," said Chief Judge David Sentelle, a conservative who was appointed by President Reagan. Joining him were two Democratic appointees, Judges David Tatel and Harry Edwards.

The decision could bring an ironic end to years of legal wrangling over prisoners held by the U.S. military. The ruling, unless overturned by the Supreme Court, appears to the give the Obama administration what the George W. Bush administration had long sought: a place where foreign prisoners can be held by the military out of reach of lawyers and courts.
After 2001 and the launch of war in Afghanistan, the Bush administration sent hundreds of foreign prisoners from Afghanistan, Pakistan and the Mideast to the U.S. Naval Base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, believing they could be held there and questioned out of reach of lawyers or courts.


But lawyers went to the Supreme Court arguing that long-term prisoners had a right to plead their innocence before an independent judge. They decried Guantanamo as a "law-free zone."


They won a series of victories at the Supreme Court, including a 5-4 ruling in 2008 that said the Constitution gave these prisoners a right to habeas corpus because Guantanamo was thousands of miles from a battlefield and had been occupied as sovereign U.S. territory for a century. At the same time, the justices said this right to a court hearing did not extend to battlefields or war zones.


Afterward, the Bush administration insisted the right to habeas corpus did not extend to Iraq or Afghanistan. And in 2009, the Obama administration adopted the same view.


A federal judge in Washington ruled that prisoners who were shipped to the Bagram prison from other countries had a right to challenge their detention, just like the prisoners who were sent to Guantanamo.


The Obama administration appealed and won a reversal in Friday's decision. In its opinion, the appeals court acknowledged the administration could "evade judicial review of executive detention decisions by transferring detainees into active conflict zones."
So, all that's to stop them from doing it will be the milk of human kindness. :rolleyes:

Excellent commentary by Glenn Greenwald: Obama wins the right to detain people with no habeas review
 

DucatiMonster696

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2009
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Let me save the Obama apologists the effort.

But, but Bush....<insert Obama apologist rational here>...........he will bring true hope and change.
 

Kappo

Platinum Member
Aug 18, 2000
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Let me save the Obama apologists the effort.

But, but Bush....<insert Obama apologist rational here>...........he will bring true hope and change.

I think it is more that he was so inexperienced that he lamented against things he didn't understand. Now that he's getting OTJ training, he's quickly realizing that some of those things are necessary to protect others.

When you are privy to some of the information that he gets, you can imagine that people aren't just doing stuff to be mean (from a policy perspective), but because it is effective. He's now finding out that loving thy terrorist isn't going to work.

I would bitch about it, but I would rather him learn this (albeit late) than never at all.
 

WHAMPOM

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2006
7,628
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Let me save the Obama apologists the effort.

But, but Bush....<insert Obama apologist rational here>...........he will bring true hope and change.

Short of historical perspective of you not to mention American citizens detained in South West concentration camps some 70 years ago without trial or the smallest of habeas rights. Though I have Hope that Obama will not abuse it as B,B,Bush did.
 

Schadenfroh

Elite Member
Mar 8, 2003
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Hopefully, he can continue to play the international community well enough to keep them from getting pissed off like they did when Bush did (or attempted to do) similar things.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
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I have always opposed Gitmo and all other detention of this sort. I have also said that the underlying problem is that the Geneva Conventions have not been updated to reflect the face of modern warfare. They were written to address nation-on-nation conflict, which isn't what we have anymore.
 

Noobtastic

Banned
Jul 9, 2005
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obama has not only continued bush policies, but expanded them exponentially.

the close gitmo campaign was merely a stunt to justify further drone activities in pakistan and more troops for afghanistan.

i mean, you can either house terrorists, or kill them.
 

Noobtastic

Banned
Jul 9, 2005
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Seems Obama is doing both.

he has shut down (allegedly) the secret CIA prisons and gitmo is supposed to go at some point. i think it stopped accepting combatants awhile ago.

either way, for every cause there is an effect.

if you don't throw terrorists in some jail, what do you do? let them be free?

the "war on terror" is predicated on an indefinite conflict against infinite enemy combatants.

there are no military objectives either then kill a certain quota of taliban/al-qaeda/whatever to meet the defense industries needs.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
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I have always opposed Gitmo and all other detention of this sort. I have also said that the underlying problem is that the Geneva Conventions have not been updated to reflect the face of modern warfare. They were written to address nation-on-nation conflict, which isn't what we have anymore.

you have a point?
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
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obama has not only continued bush policies, but expanded them exponentially.

the close gitmo campaign was merely a stunt to justify further drone activities in pakistan and more troops for afghanistan.

i mean, you can either house terrorists, or kill them.

If that's true Obama is a smart fellow. He has half the world thinking he's a Muslim while executing this war against fundis with extreme prejudice. He is really nuanced in his approach you must admit.
 

Mike Gayner

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2007
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I have always opposed Gitmo and all other detention of this sort. I have also said that the underlying problem is that the Geneva Conventions have not been updated to reflect the face of modern warfare. They were written to address nation-on-nation conflict, which isn't what we have anymore.

WTF has the Geneva convention got to do with American upholding its own constitutional principles?
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
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Those prisoners at BAF are living better than 90&#37; of the rest of Afghanistan. As far as holding them for 7 years... that's ridiculous. Their value from an intelligence value is zero by that point. They either need to be set free and tracked, or killed.
 

Kappo

Platinum Member
Aug 18, 2000
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If that's true Obama is a smart fellow. He has half the world thinking he's a Muslim while executing this war against fundis with extreme prejudice. He is really nuanced in his approach you must admit.


If you could stop wishing you were blowing him for 15 seconds, you might see that the libs called GWB a traitor and wanted him to be tried for war crimes while doing what you are praising Hussein for.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
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WTF has the Geneva convention got to do with American upholding its own constitutional principles?
These people aren't Americans, nor are they in America, so the US Constitution has nothing to do with them. Thus, they fall under the jurisdiction of the Geneva Conventions, making the Conventions pretty important.
 

GarfieldtheCat

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2005
3,708
1
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It's wrong, regardless of President.

Disgusting for Bush, disgusting for Obama

Although, it will be interesting to all those trolls here that routinely spout off about Obama being a socialist or communist, and how he is a "far-left liberal". Guess this shoots that concept down.
 

drebo

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,034
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It's wrong, regardless of President.

Disgusting for Bush, disgusting for Obama

Although, it will be interesting to all those trolls here that routinely spout off about Obama being a socialist or communist, and how he is a "far-left liberal". Guess this shoots that concept down.

Bush was a RINO. How does it shoot down the concept that both Bush and Obama are far left liberal nutjobs?