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Court: CA gay-marriage ban is unconstitutional

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cybrsage said:
Which part of "US" made you think I was talking about the ancient Roman Empire?
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It was the marriage part that made me think you were talking about... you know... marriage in its totality as a construct.

But also, you're still just wrong that religion should have any part of marriage. In fact, have you made an argument as to why religion has any place in a matter of law?

Can you invoke the word tradition for me?
 
jackstar7 said:
Or could it be that a lot of Californians are not single-issue voters, including yourself. And tolerance for homosexuality exists to varying degrees between different cultures, including the black community, which has a generally lower than average tolerance for gay folks. The state also has many non-urban areas where tolerance is lower.

It's disgusting that Prop 8 passed and I also voted against it, but you seem to have your own emotional venom going on here unrelated to the issue. Yes, some Democrats voted for Prop 8... is your position that all Democrats share certain traits... because there's a word for that. And generally you don't seem so stupid.
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Nah, was just responding to the post that tried to blame Republicans for Prop.8, when it was a bipartisan work. I know there's plenty of bigoted Republicans out there, but there's plenty of bigoted Democrats also.
 
monovillage said:
Nah, was just responding to the post that tried to blame Republicans for Prop.8, when it was a bipartisan work. I know there's plenty of bigoted Republicans out there, but there's plenty of bigoted Democrats also.
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As an Independent, I have to label all party-affiliated people as stupid. I got a newsletter instructing me...
 
jackstar7 said:
It was the marriage part that made me think you were talking about... you know... marriage in its totality as a construct.
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Since this entire thread is about California, and California is in the United States, and I explicitly said "US" in my post, I thought it was understood that the United States is used in the discussion.

What else did you require to have to be made more clear?

But also, you're still just wrong that religion should have any part of marriage. In fact, have you made an argument as to why religion has any place in a matter of law?
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Marriage should be 100% religion, government should only be civil union. Except for the few crackpots who hate religion, this is a win for everyone involved.

Religion also should not control any government. This does not mean that religious morals should be ignored - a representative democracy requires that all people be represented - but that a theocracy should be avoided.

The only theocracy allowed is when God Himself comes to the Earth to rule...but that is a very different thing.


Can you invoke the word tradition for me?[/quote]

Sure thing. 🙂 (Fiddler on the Roof - outstanding movie, btw)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRdfX7ut8gw
 
cybrsage said:
Since this entire thread is about California, and California is in the United States, and I explicitly said "US" in my post, I thought it was understood that the United States is used in the discussion.

What else did you require to have to be made more clear?


Marriage should be 100% religion, government should only be civil union.(1) Except for the few crackpots who hate religion, this is a win for everyone involved.

Religion also should not control any government.(2) This does not mean that religious morals should be ignored - a representative democracy requires that all people be represented - but that a theocracy should be avoided.

The only theocracy allowed is when God Himself comes to the Earth to rule...but that is a very different thing.
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2 is non-congruent with 1. Either we agree that it's religion, so who gives a shit what it says, because it's got nothing to do with the law, or we're giving them language in exchange for their continuing to be dicks. Lose-lose.

Marriage is for all people who want it. It's a legal contract and religion has no purview in the United States.

Religions should just make up other words for their cult rituals.

Religious morals should absolutely be ignored. We're a society of law, not superstition.
 
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cybrsage said:
As an interesting thing, I have noticed something:

Prop 8 was passed by a majority of voters. Those who are against it say the will of the people does not matter wrt rights (and I agree).
Had Prop 8 been rejected, those who are against it would have ran about claiming that the will of the people was heard.

Why the double standard?
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I was confused because you mistyped at first, so edited.

Prop 8 removed rights from people. The "will of the people" can not remove people's rights.
 
cybrsage said:
Marriage should be 100% religion, government should only be civil union. Except for the few crackpots who hate religion, this is a win for everyone involved.

Religion also should not control any government. This does not mean that religious morals should be ignored - a representative democracy requires that all people be represented - but that a theocracy should be avoided.
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except that not even religious marriages today are legal until approved by the state.

the church does not grant marriage licenses. The church is merely a buffer in the arrangement, a ceremony that will never mean anything in reality.

the fact that they get involved in this argument, as if they are actually capable of granting a marriage, is laughable.
 
jackstar7 said:
2 is non-congruent with 1. Either we agree that it's religion, so who gives a shit what it says, because it's got nothing to do with the law, or we're giving them language in exchange for their continuing to be dicks. Lose-lose.

Religious morals should absolutely be ignored. We're a society of law, not superstition.
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You are claiming that religious people must not be represented in government. Good thing you will never be in power. I hope no one like you ever comes into power again anywhere on the planet, for the good of all mankind.
 
zinfamous said:
except that not even religious marriages today are legal until approved by the state.

the church does not grant marriage licenses. The church is merely a buffer in the arrangement, a ceremony that will never mean anything in reality.

the fact that they get involved in this argument, as if they are actually capable of granting a marriage, is laughable.
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Clergy are certified by the state as legal officiants and therefor can grant marriage licences. The ceremonies are fully legal and binding.

I assume you did not marry in a church or other religious structure (or are not married at all).
 
zinfamous said:
I was confused because you mistyped at first, so edited.
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Thanks, I went back and edited my post.

Prop 8 removed rights from people. The "will of the people" can not remove people's rights.
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You are right, but that does not change what I posted. Had Prop 8 been rejected, the same people who now say the will of the people does not matter would be saying the will of the people matters. Either the will of the people matters or it does not matter. In this case, it did not matter...but I bet dollars to donuts had it been rejected the gay groups would have been touting the will of the people all over the place.
 
cybrsage said:
You are claiming that religious people must not be represented in government. Good thing you will never be in power. I hope no one like you ever comes into power again anywhere on the planet, for the good of all mankind.
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Way to knock down that strawman!

Great job!


Lemme know when you can explain why religion should have any influence over the law. To be clear: you haven't yet.
 
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Why is every thread on this forum all about cybrsage and his urge to argue regardless of topic or being right/wrong? Unbelievable..
 
mrCide said:
Why is every thread on this forum all about cybrsage and his urge to argue regardless of topic or being right/wrong? Unbelievable..
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At least threat crapping/derailing/etc behavior such as his is currently #1 on the list of things people want to change.

Then again, he participated in the thread crapping and derailment of the 'vote against threat crapping and derailing' thread too. He's really shit up these forums to an impressive degree.
 
jackstar7 said:
Way to knock down that strawman!

Great job!


Lemme know when you can explain why religion should have any influence over the law. To be clear: you haven't yet.
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ALL citizens should have influence over the law. You demand that a large portion of society NOT have influence over the law due to your bigotry and irrational mindset.

Again, I am glad you will never be in a position of power and am hopeful no one like you will ever grace the world stage again. Each time they do, terrible things happen.
 
mrCide said:
Why is every thread on this forum all about cybrsage and his urge to argue regardless of topic or being right/wrong? Unbelievable..
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eskimospy said:
At least threat crapping/derailing/etc behavior such as his is currently #1 on the list of things people want to change.

Then again, he participated in the thread crapping and derailment of the 'vote against threat crapping and derailing' thread too. He's really shit up these forums to an impressive degree.
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I know you too like having lies not challenged, but your desire to allow them to continue unchallened is something I cannot care less about.

As a note, you both just did what you claimed others should not do. Congrats!
 
cybrsage said:
ALL citizens should have influence over the law. You demand that a large portion of society NOT have influence over the law due to your bigotry and irrational mindset.

Again, I am glad you will never be in a position of power and am hopeful no one like you will ever grace the world stage again. Each time they do, terrible things happen.
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Wait, my non-religious mindset is the irrational one?

Heh.

And really, considering where I'm at in life, I have plenty of time to enter politics and start a formal war on religion. You're superstitions are not safe from me, dearie.
 
jackstar7 said:
Wait, my non-religious mindset is the irrational one?
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Yes, so irrational you had to ask to understand a simple sentence.

And really, considering where I'm at in life, I have plenty of time to enter politics and start a formal war on religion. You're superstitions are not safe from me, dearie.
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You will never be in a position of power. This is guarenteed by your irrational mindset. You would need to leave the US and find some third world nation you can overthrow to have any chance of gaining power...and that will never happen either.

Face it, you are currently a nobody and always will be. The world is better off because of it.
 
cybrsage said:
Yes, so irrational you had to ask to understand a simple sentence.

Face it, you are currently a nobody and always will be. The world is better off because of it.
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Wait, so you equate irrational with slow? I mean my question was just rhetorical... so I have to wonder how good you are with words, but it's still funny how you don't seem to know what different words mean, and yet are really boisterous in displaying your ignorance.

And why are you so mad, bro?
 
cybrsage said:
Irrationality which colors your views to the point where basic, simple things become amazingly difficult to understand.

Again, it is great for the world that you will never be in a position of power.
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So you are confused. I understand, bro.

I know how that can make one mad.
 
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