County Officials Attempt to Stop Home Bible Study

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: Cuda1447

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: Cuda1447

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong

Originally posted by: Cuda1447

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
Hello.....

Do any of the appalled and incensed want to address the matter of the Pastor himself stating that his gathering caused parking issues and damage to other people's property or that his number of visitors are higher than the number presented by the lawyers, Fox News and WorldNetDaily?

How does requiring a permit solve this? Write parking violation tickets. A permit is simply a way of stopping this gathering, rather than enforcing the correct laws.

The permit may make the group decide that that cost is not worth it and move their gathering elsewhere.

That's retarded. So if these people were rich and could afford the permit, who gives a shit about parking. But if these people aren't rich and can afford this pointless permit, they can cause all the parking problems they want?

Don't you see how fucking bogus that is? Requiring a permit is simply a tool being used to limit their rights. This case is not about parking, if it was parking tickets would be issued. This case is about stopping these people from being 'bible thumpers'.

What makes you assume they would be granted the permit.

The fact that they have to apply for a permit is the problem. This isn't about a permit, this is about parking. They won't be granted the permit cause they aren't going to spend that kind of money so they can gather at a friends house. My point is though, this is about parking, write parking violations. If its not, you don't really have any business limiting peoples 1st amendment rights.

No you clearly said that it is about the money. If they where rich they wouldn't be having a problem because they could afford the permit. You are assuming that they would just apply pay a fee and get the permit.

When in reality even if they where rich the permit would be denied because they do not provide parking for their guest.

 

[cwjerome]

I really can't understand why some people here are so adamant about shutting this bible study down. I mean , wow... all these nitpicking laws meant to control every aspect of our lives so often. One thing I've always thought that was great about the US was the general sense of independence and just letting people do what they want as long as they don't hurt others.

I especially hate people who think we need laws because something is a nuisance to them and they don't want to be annoyed. Who the fuck cares that you're annoyed, get over yourself, and quit being a little bitch dictator. Pretty soon our local laws are going to look like an HOA.

How is this different from a tupperware party, sex toy party, or weekly book club meeting? I'm willing to bet even the ACLU would support the bible study. If the government can stop christian meetings, they can stop an free-thought meeting as well. Too much government meddling.

Yes, the people going to the bible study should work some kind of car-pool arrangement, walk, or bike to keep the parking problems to a minimum, otherwise it shows lack of consideration for their neighbors. And I always thought 15 is usually considered as too large a group for a ?small group? bible study because many people will end up being spectators. These details can be properly argued, but saying they can't do it at all is oppressive.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: Cuda1447

That's retarded. So if these people were rich and could afford the permit, who gives a shit about parking. But if these people aren't rich and can afford this pointless permit, they can cause all the parking problems they want?

Don't you see how fucking bogus that is? Requiring a permit is simply a tool being used to limit their rights. This case is not about parking, if it was parking tickets would be issued. This case is about stopping these people from being 'bible thumpers'.

Let me give you a f'ing clue: You do NOT have total freedom to do what you wish with your own property. Go glance over the zoning ordinances for your county/city/neighborhood and you'll see what I mean.

If the governing authorities receive a complaint about you doing something that's a nuisance, they're going to investigate it. Would you complain if a college kid with his parents gone had a 200+ person kegger with a band next door? Would you whine about his constitutional rights being eroded if the cops show up and shut his party down?

This isn't a parking ticket scenario. This is code enforcement.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: cwjerome
I really can't understand why some people here are so adamant about shutting this bible study down. I mean , wow... all these nitpicking laws meant to control every aspect of our lives so often. One thing I've always thought that was great about the US was the general sense of independence and just letting people do what they want as long as they don't hurt others.

I really can't understand why some people here are so adamant that religious people are somehow above the laws of our land? Just because it's a bible study, we should all look the other way, and none of our laws apply?

 

[cwjerome]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: cwjerome
I really can't understand why some people here are so adamant about shutting this bible study down. I mean , wow... all these nitpicking laws meant to control every aspect of our lives so often. One thing I've always thought that was great about the US was the general sense of independence and just letting people do what they want as long as they don't hurt others.

I really can't understand why some people here are so adamant that religious people are somehow above the laws of our land? Just because it's a bible study, we should all look the other way, and none of our laws apply?

To me it doesn't matter if it's a bible study, we need to examine any laws that would prohibit this and judge their merit and get them changed if possible. "Above the laws of our land" lol, like it's gospel that shouldn't be challenged... make this a test case if necessary.

If I ask why I shouldn't kill someone, don't tell me it's because the law says so, give me reasons. Same thing in this situation, give me reasons... and if your reason is that there are too many cars on the street, and that's all you got, well...

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: cwjerome

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: cwjerome
I really can't understand why some people here are so adamant about shutting this bible study down. I mean , wow... all these nitpicking laws meant to control every aspect of our lives so often. One thing I've always thought that was great about the US was the general sense of independence and just letting people do what they want as long as they don't hurt others.

I really can't understand why some people here are so adamant that religious people are somehow above the laws of our land? Just because it's a bible study, we should all look the other way, and none of our laws apply?

To me it doesn't matter if it's a bible study, we need to examine any laws that would prohibit this and judge their merit and get them changed if possible. "Above the laws of our land" lol, like it's gospel that shouldn't be challenged... make this a test case if necessary.

If I ask why I shouldn't kill someone, don't tell me it's because the law says so, give me reasons. Same thing in this situation, give me reasons... and if your reason is that there are too many cars on the street, and that's all you got, well...

Sure, go get them changed, or try to if you feel they aren't fair. In the meantime though, you are expected to follow them or suffer the consequences, any religious affiliation aside.

Furthermore, zoning laws were MEANT to deal with "too many cars on the street" and other neighborhood nuisance issues. That's the entire point. So, what? You don't get that or something?

 

[Nemesis 1]

I cann't believe so many americans would take this stand against HOME gathering. This is alarming to myself . Because AT is such a small sample group . Funny were getting same types of replies on many forum . I am scarred for AMerica now . The Enemy within . The laggers will do what ever it takes to bring all down to their misery.

I need protection here were is my tinfolded hat.

 

[Nemesis 1]

People really need to stop this . Your forcing another civil war.

 

[AreaCode707]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: cwjerome

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: cwjerome
I really can't understand why some people here are so adamant about shutting this bible study down. I mean , wow... all these nitpicking laws meant to control every aspect of our lives so often. One thing I've always thought that was great about the US was the general sense of independence and just letting people do what they want as long as they don't hurt others.

I really can't understand why some people here are so adamant that religious people are somehow above the laws of our land? Just because it's a bible study, we should all look the other way, and none of our laws apply?

To me it doesn't matter if it's a bible study, we need to examine any laws that would prohibit this and judge their merit and get them changed if possible. "Above the laws of our land" lol, like it's gospel that shouldn't be challenged... make this a test case if necessary.

If I ask why I shouldn't kill someone, don't tell me it's because the law says so, give me reasons. Same thing in this situation, give me reasons... and if your reason is that there are too many cars on the street, and that's all you got, well...

Sure, go get them changed, or try to if you feel they aren't fair. In the meantime though, you are expected to follow them or suffer the consequences, any religious affiliation aside.

Furthermore, zoning laws were MEANT to deal with "too many cars on the street" and other neighborhood nuisance issues. That's the entire point. So, what? You don't get that or something?

Per the city's own interpretation these laws were meant to apply to full-scale churches, synagogues and mosques, not home gatherings that are the size equivilant to a book club, friends watching football or a local political gathering.

If there's a traffic problem at that small scale level, hand out traffic citations. If it gets to be a larger level problem (i.e. they have a real church plant going where they're actively bringing in increasing numbers of people every week, not just a Bible study that is the same size as any other home gathering) THEN you should be talking permits.

 

[AreaCode707]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
People really need to stop this . Your forcing another civil war.

Nemesis, I've said it before and I'll say it again; people would take your comments much more seriously if you used better grammar, spelling and puntuation...

 

[cwjerome]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: cwjerome

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: cwjerome
I really can't understand why some people here are so adamant about shutting this bible study down. I mean , wow... all these nitpicking laws meant to control every aspect of our lives so often. One thing I've always thought that was great about the US was the general sense of independence and just letting people do what they want as long as they don't hurt others.

I really can't understand why some people here are so adamant that religious people are somehow above the laws of our land? Just because it's a bible study, we should all look the other way, and none of our laws apply?

To me it doesn't matter if it's a bible study, we need to examine any laws that would prohibit this and judge their merit and get them changed if possible. "Above the laws of our land" lol, like it's gospel that shouldn't be challenged... make this a test case if necessary.

If I ask why I shouldn't kill someone, don't tell me it's because the law says so, give me reasons. Same thing in this situation, give me reasons... and if your reason is that there are too many cars on the street, and that's all you got, well...

Sure, go get them changed, or try to if you feel they aren't fair. In the meantime though, you are expected to follow them or suffer the consequences, any religious affiliation aside.

Furthermore, zoning laws were MEANT to deal with "too many cars on the street" and other neighborhood nuisance issues. That's the entire point. So, what? You don't get that or something?

I get that there's a purpose for zoning laws and such laws are based on a reasonable interpretation of the facts, whereas you seem to take a zero-tolerance one size fits all approach like some concrete-bound law nazi. I get it, get a license if you want to engage in peaceful assemblies... eventually your rights and every aspect of your so called free life will be questioned, regulated and licensed into oblivion. Governments are for the people by the people and the people need to stand up against intrusive little control freaks like you.

If there's too many cars on your precious street and you just can't take it call your overlords and they can come issue citations if it'll make you feel better.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: cwjerome

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: cwjerome

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: cwjerome
I really can't understand why some people here are so adamant about shutting this bible study down. I mean , wow... all these nitpicking laws meant to control every aspect of our lives so often. One thing I've always thought that was great about the US was the general sense of independence and just letting people do what they want as long as they don't hurt others.

I really can't understand why some people here are so adamant that religious people are somehow above the laws of our land? Just because it's a bible study, we should all look the other way, and none of our laws apply?

To me it doesn't matter if it's a bible study, we need to examine any laws that would prohibit this and judge their merit and get them changed if possible. "Above the laws of our land" lol, like it's gospel that shouldn't be challenged... make this a test case if necessary.

If I ask why I shouldn't kill someone, don't tell me it's because the law says so, give me reasons. Same thing in this situation, give me reasons... and if your reason is that there are too many cars on the street, and that's all you got, well...

Sure, go get them changed, or try to if you feel they aren't fair. In the meantime though, you are expected to follow them or suffer the consequences, any religious affiliation aside.

Furthermore, zoning laws were MEANT to deal with "too many cars on the street" and other neighborhood nuisance issues. That's the entire point. So, what? You don't get that or something?

I get that there's a purpose for zoning laws and such laws are based on a reasonable interpretation of the facts, whereas you seem to take a zero-tolerance one size fits all approach like some concrete-bound law nazi. I get it, get a license if you want to engage in peaceful assemblies... eventually your rights and every aspect of your so called free life will be questioned, regulated and licensed into oblivion. Governments are for the people by the people and the people need to stand up against intrusive little control freaks like you.

If there's too many cars on your precious street and you just can't take it call your overlords and they can come issue citations if it'll make you feel better.

FYI, I never made any sort of judgment on this particular case, I merely pointed out to the people wailing and gnashing their teeth about 'religious intolerance' that zoning ordinances were MADE for this exact purpose. If it turns out that this weekly gathering truly is no big deal, then I'm sure the county will find that to be the case.

Furthermore, you strike me as the sort of person who has been fortunate not to have neighbors who cause nuisance situations. Good for you, however for the rest of us, it's good to know there's some recourse and some method of resolving disputes like the one we're talking about here.

I assume you'd prefer it come to direct neighbor on neighbor violence to resolve disputes? Or perhaps, in your all-knowing enlightenment, you have a better solution?

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
People really need to stop this . Your forcing another civil war.

You need to stop this. You're making baby jesus cry.

Originally posted by: AreaCode707
Nemesis, I've said it before and I'll say it again; people would take your comments much more seriously if you used better grammar, spelling and puntuation...

No. No, they wouldn't.

 

[RightIsWrong]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
I cann't believe so many americans would take this stand against HOME gathering. This is alarming to myself . Because AT is such a small sample group . Funny were getting same types of replies on many forum . I am scarred for AMerica now . The Enemy within . The laggers will do what ever it takes to bring all down to their misery.

I need protection here were is my tinfolded hat.

No one is taking a stand against home gatherings. We are simply stating that there are laws that need to be followed to avoid anarchy.

Some of the laws (zoning, jaywalking, etc) are simple nuisance laws that have very little bearing on our everyday lives but help to maintain some semblance of order. Others (murder, theft, rape, etc) are more severe and are there for our protection from others and even ourselves.

In this case, it is being made out to be some sort of religious persecution when it, as the known facts suggest, clearly doesn't hold up.

You can fear for America all you want. But if your fear is that those conducting any type of religious activity get preferential treatment, then your fear is warranted....but very badly misplaced.

 

[BoomerD]

I wish they'd to that here.

One of my neighbors has recently "found Jeezus," and has bible studies at her house.

I don't really care about the bible study, but on a street where parking is already difficult at best, these people park anywhere they can, and often park so that they block at least part of people's driveways...one night, I needed to go to the store...over half my driveway was blocked.

I've battled with the illegal immigrants who live next door over this for so many years that, thinking the car belonged to one of them, I just picked up the phone and called the cops to have it towed. (imagine their surprise when they came out and their car was gone!) (they've left MY driveway alone since then)

 

[mattpegher]

It sounds like the county officials were responding to some complaint but they need to address the particular infringements that the neighbors are complaining about.
I doubt that there is a noise issue, but parking is probably the issue. If there is not a zoning law or parking law that is being violated then they are probably running out of options for inforcement.

Certainly seems that this pastor is causing some inconvienience to his neighbors which doesn't seem very "christian". Doesn't the bible teach to love they neighbor.

If the neighbors aren't complaining then the county officials are just being assinign.

 

[cwjerome]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: cwjerome

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: cwjerome

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: cwjerome
I really can't understand why some people here are so adamant about shutting this bible study down. I mean , wow... all these nitpicking laws meant to control every aspect of our lives so often. One thing I've always thought that was great about the US was the general sense of independence and just letting people do what they want as long as they don't hurt others.

I really can't understand why some people here are so adamant that religious people are somehow above the laws of our land? Just because it's a bible study, we should all look the other way, and none of our laws apply?

To me it doesn't matter if it's a bible study, we need to examine any laws that would prohibit this and judge their merit and get them changed if possible. "Above the laws of our land" lol, like it's gospel that shouldn't be challenged... make this a test case if necessary.

If I ask why I shouldn't kill someone, don't tell me it's because the law says so, give me reasons. Same thing in this situation, give me reasons... and if your reason is that there are too many cars on the street, and that's all you got, well...

Sure, go get them changed, or try to if you feel they aren't fair. In the meantime though, you are expected to follow them or suffer the consequences, any religious affiliation aside.

Furthermore, zoning laws were MEANT to deal with "too many cars on the street" and other neighborhood nuisance issues. That's the entire point. So, what? You don't get that or something?

I get that there's a purpose for zoning laws and such laws are based on a reasonable interpretation of the facts, whereas you seem to take a zero-tolerance one size fits all approach like some concrete-bound law nazi. I get it, get a license if you want to engage in peaceful assemblies... eventually your rights and every aspect of your so called free life will be questioned, regulated and licensed into oblivion. Governments are for the people by the people and the people need to stand up against intrusive little control freaks like you.

If there's too many cars on your precious street and you just can't take it call your overlords and they can come issue citations if it'll make you feel better.

FYI, I never made any sort of judgment on this particular case, I merely pointed out to the people wailing and gnashing their teeth about 'religious intolerance' that zoning ordinances were MADE for this exact purpose. If it turns out that this weekly gathering truly is no big deal, then I'm sure the county will find that to be the case.

Furthermore, you strike me as the sort of person who has been fortunate not to have neighbors who cause nuisance situations. Good for you, however for the rest of us, it's good to know there's some recourse and some method of resolving disputes like the one we're talking about here.

I assume you'd prefer it come to direct neighbor on neighbor violence to resolve disputes? Or perhaps, in your all-knowing enlightenment, you have a better solution?

In my mind freedom trumps annoyances most of the time, that's just part of living in a country properly based on liberty and independence. I don't have the patience for people who would love their lives to be totally micromanaged so that we can have a sterile, gray society of drones living "correctly" through obedience of 10 millions rules, regs and laws meant to keep everybody from offending each other.

I'm sure most people have had the bad neighbor, but unless it's something serious people need to adopt a live and let live attitude, life's too short and if you just have to dwell on matters like this then you must have a pretty great life if that's the worst of your problems. If you can't deal living around others then move somewhere where it's not a problem.

 

[TruePaige]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Originally posted by: AreaCode707

Originally posted by: Zeppelin2282

Originally posted by: AreaCode707
Wow, that's insane.

My housemates and I host a weekly Bible study that's usually between 10-15 people.

Cars:
We deliberately picked a house with lots of on-site parking and so we usually only have 2-3 cars parked on the street during study. We've have the cops called on us once because a car was in a spot that a neighbor perceived as blocking their driveway (they have a big SUV and have trouble pulling out if we're parked on the opposite side of the street). We immediately agreed to move the car and informed everyone not to park there again. The next day I went and introduced myself to the neighbor, gave him my phone number and said he could call any time of the day or night if our cars were in the way and we'd happily move them.

Noise:
We don't do any music and we're never louder than loud laughter, sometimes outside on the back deck. One of the housemates goes to sleep early so by 9:30 we are at a low level of volume too quiet to wake her up, much less bother then neighbors.

Rotate homes:
everyone in the study pretty much lives in 1 or 2 bedroom apartments except us. We're in a six bedroom house that we rent collectively (7 people).

Do it at church:
We all belong to different, or no, churches. We don't have a church in common that we could meet at. For all formal organization purposes this is a group of friends getting together to hang out. The only thing that differs between this and a group of friends is that we're focused on a particular topic. The only thing that differs between this and a book club is that we pray at the end.

The idea that there could be a restriction on a private gathering based on the topic of conversation astounds me, and it seems to go against the principle of freedom of religion in this country...

Way to even read the thread/news links provided.

As RightisWrong mentioned earlier, you have to just laugh at the irony of this situation. Fundies have no problem trying to control what happens in the privacy of other peoples homes...but when the tables turn oh the injustice!

I DID read the news article and understood it. Let me break it down for you:
- I have a weekly gathering in my home of about 15 people
- Without any additional information, this does not violate zoning laws
- This is not a formal registered non-profit organization otherwise known as a church; this is a gathering of friends to discuss a topic of mutual interest
- Because of the nature of the topic the officer at the scene is arbitrarily declaring this a religious assembly and causing problems.

The same gathering at the same place at the same time with the same number of people would not have been asked the same questions if they were an Oprah book club.

Per the nature of the resolution article posted, the city apparently agrees with me. The questions asked by the officer show an intent to make this issue about the nature of their gathering rather than the traffic infraction that was actually the legitimate issue.

I'd add to this as it is all relevant to what I was going to post that I don't care what ANYBODY does in the privacy of their own house with consenting housemates, whether it is play video games, smoke pot, get drunk, or have sex.

Some people need to seriously think about this. Revenge is NEVER the answer.

Just because you don't like some church folk, doesn't mean you should erode our civil rights to try and "one up" them.

The law shouldn't be so hateful, prosecuting people for pointless infractions and filling our jails with non-violent offenders like it does.

total Fail

That was a really well thought out reply. Thanks for that. :roll:

I'm for owners rights on any piece of private property.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Originally posted by: AreaCode707

Originally posted by: Zeppelin2282

Originally posted by: AreaCode707
Wow, that's insane.

My housemates and I host a weekly Bible study that's usually between 10-15 people.

Cars:
We deliberately picked a house with lots of on-site parking and so we usually only have 2-3 cars parked on the street during study. We've have the cops called on us once because a car was in a spot that a neighbor perceived as blocking their driveway (they have a big SUV and have trouble pulling out if we're parked on the opposite side of the street). We immediately agreed to move the car and informed everyone not to park there again. The next day I went and introduced myself to the neighbor, gave him my phone number and said he could call any time of the day or night if our cars were in the way and we'd happily move them.

Noise:
We don't do any music and we're never louder than loud laughter, sometimes outside on the back deck. One of the housemates goes to sleep early so by 9:30 we are at a low level of volume too quiet to wake her up, much less bother then neighbors.

Rotate homes:
everyone in the study pretty much lives in 1 or 2 bedroom apartments except us. We're in a six bedroom house that we rent collectively (7 people).

Do it at church:
We all belong to different, or no, churches. We don't have a church in common that we could meet at. For all formal organization purposes this is a group of friends getting together to hang out. The only thing that differs between this and a group of friends is that we're focused on a particular topic. The only thing that differs between this and a book club is that we pray at the end.

The idea that there could be a restriction on a private gathering based on the topic of conversation astounds me, and it seems to go against the principle of freedom of religion in this country...

Way to even read the thread/news links provided.

As RightisWrong mentioned earlier, you have to just laugh at the irony of this situation. Fundies have no problem trying to control what happens in the privacy of other peoples homes...but when the tables turn oh the injustice!

I DID read the news article and understood it. Let me break it down for you:
- I have a weekly gathering in my home of about 15 people
- Without any additional information, this does not violate zoning laws
- This is not a formal registered non-profit organization otherwise known as a church; this is a gathering of friends to discuss a topic of mutual interest
- Because of the nature of the topic the officer at the scene is arbitrarily declaring this a religious assembly and causing problems.

The same gathering at the same place at the same time with the same number of people would not have been asked the same questions if they were an Oprah book club.

Per the nature of the resolution article posted, the city apparently agrees with me. The questions asked by the officer show an intent to make this issue about the nature of their gathering rather than the traffic infraction that was actually the legitimate issue.

I'd add to this as it is all relevant to what I was going to post that I don't care what ANYBODY does in the privacy of their own house with consenting housemates, whether it is play video games, smoke pot, get drunk, or have sex.

Some people need to seriously think about this. Revenge is NEVER the answer.

Just because you don't like some church folk, doesn't mean you should erode our civil rights to try and "one up" them.

The law shouldn't be so hateful, prosecuting people for pointless infractions and filling our jails with non-violent offenders like it does.

total Fail

That was a really well thought out reply. Thanks for that. :roll:

I'm for owners rights on any piece of private property.

It was well thought out, because it summarized your post without being overly verbose. Congrats on your state of being, now may I suggest working on your Intellect?

 

[Nemesis 1]

Originally posted by: AreaCode707

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
People really need to stop this . Your forcing another civil war.

Nemesis, I've said it before and I'll say it again; people would take your comments much more seriously if you used better grammar, spelling and puntuation...

Its a sad thing your saying , Its true in some instances such as yourself . But if Grammer / Spelling is a requirement to be taken seriously . I am glad I have poor grammer spelling as it adds me in seeking out the Perfect people . Were ever they may be.:disgust:

 

[piasabird]

In many places in the USA (Mormon) High School Students meet at their instructors house in the morning before going to school. It is typical that 10-20 teenagers might be meeting at the instructor's home for what we call in the LDS Church, Seminary. If you would outlaw such a meeting you would also have to outlaw barbeques, 4th of July parties, Graduation Parties , Halloween parties, Superbowl parties, News Year Eve Parties and every other type of gathering.

Are you Communists? Fascists or what?

Dont you believe in Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Assembly?

 

[TruePaige]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Originally posted by: AreaCode707

Originally posted by: Zeppelin2282

Originally posted by: AreaCode707
Wow, that's insane.

My housemates and I host a weekly Bible study that's usually between 10-15 people.

Cars:
We deliberately picked a house with lots of on-site parking and so we usually only have 2-3 cars parked on the street during study. We've have the cops called on us once because a car was in a spot that a neighbor perceived as blocking their driveway (they have a big SUV and have trouble pulling out if we're parked on the opposite side of the street). We immediately agreed to move the car and informed everyone not to park there again. The next day I went and introduced myself to the neighbor, gave him my phone number and said he could call any time of the day or night if our cars were in the way and we'd happily move them.

Noise:
We don't do any music and we're never louder than loud laughter, sometimes outside on the back deck. One of the housemates goes to sleep early so by 9:30 we are at a low level of volume too quiet to wake her up, much less bother then neighbors.

Rotate homes:
everyone in the study pretty much lives in 1 or 2 bedroom apartments except us. We're in a six bedroom house that we rent collectively (7 people).

Do it at church:
We all belong to different, or no, churches. We don't have a church in common that we could meet at. For all formal organization purposes this is a group of friends getting together to hang out. The only thing that differs between this and a group of friends is that we're focused on a particular topic. The only thing that differs between this and a book club is that we pray at the end.

The idea that there could be a restriction on a private gathering based on the topic of conversation astounds me, and it seems to go against the principle of freedom of religion in this country...

Way to even read the thread/news links provided.

As RightisWrong mentioned earlier, you have to just laugh at the irony of this situation. Fundies have no problem trying to control what happens in the privacy of other peoples homes...but when the tables turn oh the injustice!

I DID read the news article and understood it. Let me break it down for you:
- I have a weekly gathering in my home of about 15 people
- Without any additional information, this does not violate zoning laws
- This is not a formal registered non-profit organization otherwise known as a church; this is a gathering of friends to discuss a topic of mutual interest
- Because of the nature of the topic the officer at the scene is arbitrarily declaring this a religious assembly and causing problems.

The same gathering at the same place at the same time with the same number of people would not have been asked the same questions if they were an Oprah book club.

Per the nature of the resolution article posted, the city apparently agrees with me. The questions asked by the officer show an intent to make this issue about the nature of their gathering rather than the traffic infraction that was actually the legitimate issue.

I'd add to this as it is all relevant to what I was going to post that I don't care what ANYBODY does in the privacy of their own house with consenting housemates, whether it is play video games, smoke pot, get drunk, or have sex.

Some people need to seriously think about this. Revenge is NEVER the answer.

Just because you don't like some church folk, doesn't mean you should erode our civil rights to try and "one up" them.

The law shouldn't be so hateful, prosecuting people for pointless infractions and filling our jails with non-violent offenders like it does.

total Fail

That was a really well thought out reply. Thanks for that. :roll:

I'm for owners rights on any piece of private property.

It was well thought out, because it summarized your post without being overly verbose. Congrats on your state of being, now may I suggest working on your Intellect?

Still, you address no points and merely spread hate against those who don't do as you wish on their own private property.

Thanks for playing, have a bagel.

 

[TruePaige]

Originally posted by: piasabird
In many places in the USA (Mormon) High School Students meet at their instructors house in the morning before going to school. It is typical that 10-20 teenagers might be meeting at the instructor's home for what we call in the LDS Church, Seminary. If you would outlaw such a meeting you would also have to outlaw barbeques, 4th of July parties, Graduation Parties , Halloween parties, Superbowl parties, News Year Eve Parties and every other type of gathering.

Are you Communists? Fascists or what?

Dont you believe in Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Assembly?

I think this thread has shown a few Fascists.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Originally posted by: sandorski


It was well thought out, because it summarized your post without being overly verbose. Congrats on your state of being, now may I suggest working on your Intellect?

Still, you address no points and merely spread hate against those who don't do as you wish on their own private property.

Thanks for playing, have a bagel.

Made points earlier in thread. This has nothing to do with Religion. Total Fail on your part, sorry.

 

[piasabird]

Sometimes I see people having parties and the street full of parked cars for parties of all kinds and I have never called the police as long as my driveway is not blocked. I dont have a problem with cars being parked on the street. If it is a public road, who cares? As long as it is not an Illegal Activity, no one has a right to complain.

In some places, I realize it is illegal to park on the street. So if that is the case it is just a municipal law. It is typical to have a few friends over to eat or have dinner. So even if they wanted to pray and sing a Hymn, it is no one's business. Where do you think visitors are suppose to park?

I knew a man that ran a computer user's Support Group one Saturday night each month. No one complained about his meetings.